Are Secondaries weaker than same power as Primary?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-08-11 17:32 in Player Questions
You can check out http://coh.redtomax.com/data/powers/
I know that there is a percentage difference between Defender and Controller Buff/Debuff effectiveness, but I don't know what it is.
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
Base values for primaries are stronger than the same power secondaries. This holds true for Defenders/Controllers/Corruptors as well as Blasters/Defenders and Tanks/Scrappers and Scrappers/Tanks.
Yes... and no.
Basically each AT has it's own set of scaling values for everything. In general an AT will have better scaling values (relative to other ATs) for the effects in it's Primary than those in it's secondary.
So comparing the same set in Blasters and Defenders. The Blaster will do more damage because they have a higher damage scaling value. However, defenders have higher scaling values for buff/debuff meaning that the secondary effects of the powers are more powerful for the defender. For example in Energy Blast most of the attacks do knockback. The Energy/* Blaster will do more damage but less knockback than a */Energy Defender.
The place where this breaks down a bit is with powers that use either a pet or a pseudo pet. For the majority of these the devs did not adjust the scaling factors in situations where the same power is used by multiple ATs.
Okay so, if I want to be the best Radiation-set hero I can be, I should really roll a Rad/* DEFENDER vs. a */Rad CONTROLLER then...
Thanks heroes!
Yes, a Rad/ Defender will have better debuffs than a /Rad controller. That doesn't necessarily mean that the Defender is better overall however. The difference between a Defender primary and a Controller secondary is not that huge at higher levels whereas Defender secondaries are rather weak while Controller Primaries are very stong.
In any case, you may want to check out Red Tomax:
http://www.redtomax.com/data/powers/...ation_Emission
http://www.redtomax.com/data/powers/...ation_Emission
I say: Play them both!
You'll have different experiences but I think they both can be worthwhile.
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Wow yeah - redtomax links were very illuminating - thx much.
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Originally Posted by Adeon_Hawkwood
Yes, a Rad/ Defender will have better debuffs than a /Rad controller. That doesn't necessarily mean that the Defender is better overall however. The difference between a Defender primary and a Controller secondary is not that huge at higher levels whereas Defender secondaries are rather weak while Controller Primaries are very stong.
In any case, you may want to check out Red Tomax: http://www.redtomax.com/data/powers/...ation_Emission http://www.redtomax.com/data/powers/...ation_Emission |
They can have different playstyles as well which in turn means using different powers. A Ice, or Fire/rad would likely use Choking Cloud as where a defender likely wouldn't since they could play more at range.
Frankly, I'd play a Controller over a Defender for Rad Emissions. Debuffs are a taunt and AOE Debuffs are AOE taunts. With controls, you can mitigate a lot of the reciprocal aggro especially if you're out in the open without a corner to pull to.
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
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While your question has been answered, I'll just say, "Yes... as a rule of thumb".|
Originally Posted by RobertoLyon
Will a Rad/* hero have more effective Rad powers than a */Rad hero, regardless of slotting?
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What actually matters isn't whether a power is in your primary or secondary, but what Attribute Modifiers the power's effects use, and what those Attribute Modifiers are for your AT (It just works out that the Attribute Modifiers and powers are set up such that, usually, Primary > Secondary). So, while Radiant Aura on a Defender heals for 133.862 and 117.799 on a Controller, both get +30% Recharge from Accelerate Metabolism, and Choking Cloud on a Controller lasts 7.45s while on a Defender it lasts 5.96s.
This is because the Ranged_Heal (Radiant Aura) modifier for Defenders is higher than for Controllers, Ranged_Ones (Accelerate Metabolism's +Rech) is the same for everyone, and Ranged_Immobilize (Choking Cloud; there is no Ranged_Hold modifier) is higher for Controllers than it is for Defenders.
You can see the actual values of the various Attribute Modifiers on City of Data
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Gah! *head asplodes*|
Originally Posted by Fleeting_Whisper
While your question has been answered, I'll just say, "Yes... as a rule of thumb".
What actually matters isn't whether a power is in your primary or secondary, but what Attribute Modifiers the power's effects use, and what those Attribute Modifiers are for your AT (It just works out that the Attribute Modifiers and powers are set up such that, usually, Primary > Secondary). So, while Radiant Aura on a Defender heals for 133.862 and 117.799 on a Controller, both get +30% Recharge from Accelerate Metabolism, and Choking Cloud on a Controller lasts 7.45s while on a Defender it lasts 5.96s. This is because the Ranged_Heal (Radiant Aura) modifier for Defenders is higher than for Controllers, Ranged_Ones (Accelerate Metabolism's +Rech) is the same for everyone, and Ranged_Immobilize (Choking Cloud; there is no Ranged_Hold modifier) is higher for Controllers than it is for Defenders. You can see the actual values of the various Attribute Modifiers on City of Data |
I like "rule of thumb" - all them fancy numbers is makin my thinkin-thing hurt.
See my latest effort is a Plant/Rad troller around 27 right now.
But Yeah I'm not seeing the kind of "they gets all buttery-like" when I throw the debuffs on, that I expected.
I'll roll a Rad/* Defender next.
(not fer nuttin, but I've come to the conclusion that if you run large teams, as I almost always do, nothing makes the xp roll faster than a Rad on the team. So I rolled a Rad, now I *always* have a Rad on my team!)
It also seems to matter if the power spawns a pet or not. Powers that spawn pets tend to be identical between ATs (see Tar Patch, Traps, half of Fulcrum Shift). It's not a definite rule, though, and there are exceptions.
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But the higher defender modifiers, 3 SO slotting puts mobs at the tohit floor anyway.
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Originally Posted by SerialBeggar
Frankly, I'd play a Controller over a Defender for Rad Emissions. Debuffs are a taunt and AOE Debuffs are AOE taunts. With controls, you can mitigate a lot of the reciprocal aggro especially if you're out in the open without a corner to pull to.
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@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Such as, for example, Fallout. Defenders summon a pet called "Fallout", while Controllers summon a pet called "Fallout Controller"
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Originally Posted by MrQuizzles
It's not a definite rule, though, and there are exceptions.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Note that if there is an expection to that 'rule of thumb', it's definitely Blasters, whose secondary powersets often include highly damaging melee attacks.
Will a Rad/* hero have more effective Rad powers than a */Rad hero, regardless of slotting?
I think the Wiki hints at that (read it somewhere "official" - maybe even the manual?), but don't really understand how it works.