Hyrbid Powers Part Deux

So I searched around on this idea of hybrid power sets. These are either primaries or secondaries that are made up of more than one set. I thought I had posted this before, but maybe I dreamed it. At any rate, there is already an old thread.

I wanted to start a new thread since my idea is a bit different and also to reintroduce the idea.

Basically, daddy was an ice corruptor and momma was a dark corruptor (primaries in this example). The new set would be the combination of the two.

So similar to the example posted in the other thread, you would get to choose powers from either ice or dark primaries. However, here is where it is different. I suggest that you have a dominant and recessive aspect to the choices. How that is manifested is simply in that the you can never choose two consecutive powers from the same set.

Since there are only 9 powers available, one set will have one more choice than the other and be the dominant set.

However, you can't have something for nothing. The hybrids shouldn't really be as powerful as a 'pure' set. So, dominant secondary effects should be at 75% of the pure levels, and recessive secondary effects would be at around 50%. Now this limitation may not be necessary since the reduced ability to stack effects is inherently there in that the power selection is almost half of the pure set. For example, the to hit debuff from dark would be at 75% strength if the dark set was dominant, half strength if recessive.

I think this suggestion opens a lot of gaming possibilities. Especially for us old timers. Also, it would work really well with the upcoming power customization in that colored powers from hybrided sets can be changed to match.

If you want to play a game that allows you to pick and choose your individual powers I suggest you try CO. Your account will be waiting for you when you return.

The potential for extreme overpowering exists here.

Let's look at a Brute

Primary: SS/Fire

Jab
Fire Sword
Haymaker
Build Up
KO Blow
Taunt
Rage
Fire Sword Circle
Foot Stomp

Yeah, just a LITTLE overpowered.

Secondary:Stone/SR

Rock Armor
Focused Senses
Earth's Embrace
Practiced Brawler
Rooted
Evasion
Crystal Armor
Quickness
Granite Armor

You would be able to take Practiced Brawler instead of Rooted. And you could get both Quickness AND Granite Armor. Giving you the best part of Stone Armor, while circumventing a lot of the downsides to taking it. You still couldn't jump in Granite form, but you would have mez protection that doesn't slow you down, and Quickness to help make up for the -speed and -recharge of Granite form. You would be nearly unkillable, while giving up very little of your damage output. Pair that with the primary I outlined above and you would have a seriously broken, overpowered character.

Interesting idea, but there's no way I can see that it could be balanced to keep things like this from happening.

Sounds impressive. However, I did mention that secondary effects would have reduced strength. When I said that, I guess I was thinking in terms of secondary effects to damage powers. It should also apply directly to buffs. Sorry not being very explicit.

So, since stone is the dominant power, its buffs would be at 75% strength while SR would be at 50% strength. That should take care of any 'overpowerdness' hybridization brings in (hopefully).

The percentages could be wrong or not optimized depending on the set. In fact, each set could self penalize uniquely if hybridized. However, I want to state that the purpose is not to make an overall UBER build. It is to add more variety and uniqueness to CoX.

That's exactly why I used a brute for the example.

50% of Quickness is still a 10% global recharge bonus and a 10% (enhanceable) speed bonus.

75% of Granite Armor is 11.25% defense to all except Psi and 28.125% resistance to all but Psi, both enhanceable to 16.8% and around 43% respectively with creative slotting.

Focused Senses and Evasion (which can't be blocked from running because it would be this hybrid's taunt aura) would be 6.95% each. Enhancable to just over 10%

If you add in set bonuses and pool powers that would allow you to have a softcapped Granite brute with a 10% global recharge bonus (which can also be added to through set bonuses). I have seen characters with zero defense powers built to softcap, so it IS possible.

On the primary side: SS would be the dominant set so it would get 75% and Fire Melee would get 50%

Perma Rage would still be possible with enough set bonuses. At 75% effectiveness it is STILL a 15% to-hit buff and a 60% damage buff. Fire Melee's 50% debuff is eliminated by Rage, while actually still getting a 10% damage buff. SS will still get a 35% damage buff with Rage active. Add in Fury and your combat effectiveness doesn't drop that much.

Build Up at 50% effectiveness will still be a 10% to-hit buff and a 40% damage buff.

End result: Even with your reduced effectiveness factored in, this would still be an overpowered character.

You state that it's purpose is not to make an uber-build. I believe you on that....

....but look what happened with AE. It's purpose was to allow players to write their own stories and missions, and look at how it is being used.

Your intentions seem good, but you can't ignore the proven fact that, if you hand people something with this much potential to be abused, it WILL be.

That's just ONE example that I came up with after thinking about it for a few minutes, I'm sure if this were implemented people would come up with combos that are even more broken than this.

Unfortunately, anything more drastic than that would make the set just about unplayable. In order to keep it from being overpowered you'd have to nerf it so bad that you would actually be severely penalized for using that feature. You would end up with a hybrid of Stone and SR that cannot keep pace with either set by itself. And that wouldn't be fair.

Also, did you consider the implications in the weapons wielding sets? I know you originally meant for blast sets that had no drawn weapons, but to be fair, you would have to give this option to everyone, not just those with no drawn weapons.

As per BaBs, all weapons sets have their own combat stances, that is why powers like Kick cause redraw, when you wouldn't think they would. (I PMed him myself on that a while back, I can post his response if you like)

Additionally, each hand only has space for ONE item in it. I'm not a programmer, and I don't know how the game's code works, but I doubt it is mechanically possible to draw a weapon, enter that weapon's combat stance, make an attack, put that weapon away, draw another one and enter a DIFFERENT combat stance, and make an attack. In fact I would be willing to bet that when Defenders get Assault Rifle you won't be able to use it with Trick Arrow for exactly that reason.

The two weapon problem aside, how do you solve the problem of there being two different combat stances in the same powerset?

I don't think it is possible to code it correctly, and even if it is I doubt Castle and BaBs will go to all that trouble for something they are unlikely to look favorably on in the first place.

Yes, TA is coming to corruptors.

Will most likely be the same situation where if you choose Assault Rifle on a corruptor it will grey out Trick Arrow.

With Defenders if you choose Trick Arrow it will grey out Assault Rifle.

Very much the same way that two handed weapons sets (Claws, Spines, Dual Blades, Katana) grey out Shield Defense when you choose them.

Since they couldn't or were unwilling to allow that, it doesn't seem too likely for them to allow Trick Arrow and Assault Rifle on the same toon, and even less likely they would allow, say, Katana and Broadsword in the same set.

Looking at all of the difficulties involved here, I would say this idea is probably never going to see the light of day.

First, the weapons and weapon stance problems would have to be addressed, and I'm not sure if it would even be possible to come up with a solution good enough to take live.

Second, as I mentioned earlier, certain set combinations would be massively overpowered, even if they were less effective. On the flip side, other set combinations would also be gimped to the point of unplayability. You really can't have one extreme without the opposite existing as well.

Third, as my Stone/SR example pointed out, some combinations would let you eliminate the weaknesses or disadvantages that were designed into each set to balance their strengths. In order to prevent it from being overpowered you would have to nerf it so much that a character using that combination would not be on par with a character using either set alone.

Those concerns are taking the 75% and 50% effectiveness into account. Much less than that and there would be no reason to use two sets, because your performance would be so much lower than a single set. Any more than that, and my hypothetical SS/Fire/Stone/SR brute would go from "overpowered" to "god-mode".

It's an interesting idea nonetheless, and I commend you for thinking outside the box, but there are so many balance issues that even if the devs DID figure out how to make it work it would be a nightmare to try and balance that many powersets in combination with others.

I would say it would be 99.9% certain the devs will never go for this idea. They just recently got the powersets into a reasonable level of balance across the board, it would be far to much to ask for them to do the same thing on this much larger of a scale.

You mentioned that corruptors have 8 primaries and 9 secondaries. That's 153 powers available to corruptors. Not only would they need to remain balanced within the sets themselves, but they would also have to be balanced with every possible combination. And then you have 9 other ATs to do the same thing with. That is, obviously, a staggering workload.

In order to make this happen, the devs would have to pretty much halt all new development for at least a month or two. I'd rather not see that happen, and I don't think you do either, since your reason for suggesting this is to have more new stuff to play with.

To get it even close to workable powers that do the same job would need to be made mutually exclusive.

So

all build up type powers would have to be codded so that you could only have one (the exception being fiery embrace as that's not in the same category as the others)

Status protection powers

Possible powers that have the same effect so you couldn't take multiple snipes or armours that fulfill the same role

Seems like a lot of work they would in the end be better of just going for something like the champions model