Ice/Ice endurance woes

My Ice/Ice Dom just hit 26, so Stamina is fully slotted; however, I still find myself almost out of END after taking out a standard spawn or two. Yes, I've usually got Arctic Air on, but it's not THAT bad, is it?

Ice Assault didn't really get touched in the big Dom overhaul... was it really functioning per the new Dom spec without any major changes? Is it on par with other sets END-wise?

Arctic Air is a gigantic endurance vacuum. Ice Slick should be mostly covering your bases as far as keeping a spawn locked down, shouldn't it?

Arctic Air is THAT bad.

It has to be, Ice was one of the few primaries that just got the base damage buff, and did not have any powers changed.

Yea, it's pretty rough bud. If you stick with it though and work out Perma, it's an awesome combo between the + status effects and power boost, and the end bar refill helps out a ton. If that's not enough, pick up an endurance power from a patron. The end result is worth the struggle I think.

@.MIDAS

BIG BROTHER MIDAS, Ice/Ice Dominator, 1314 Badges
* Any toon you see with Midas in the name is probably me *

With 3 End Reduction SO's, Mids shows Arctic Air as consuming 0.53 end/sec. My spines/ea stalker running all his toggles plus Combat Jumping uses 0.63. So yeah, Arctic Air is a horrible end drain. It's a single toggle that literally costs as much as some armor sets' full complement of toggles.

Personally, I didn't take either toggle on my Ice/Ice, there was already enough damage and mitigation between me and Jack that I never found myself in melee without all the enemies being held or dead. If you are trying to slow well slotted shiver will do it well from range and Chilling Embrace is a much better toggle. Max recharge slow is 75%, Max movement slow is 90% and seeing how an Ice/Ice combo can floor recharge and movement easy without toggles the only reason to take AA is for the chance for confusion and at that point it isn't worth the end drain. You and Jack will have Chilling Embrace at that point giving all the enemies in melee range of you both floor movement and recharge speed. So overall AA just isn't worth it to me almost a waste of a slot.

Eh, I don't think I would go that far. Arctic air does have several advantages over shiver and chilling embrace.

First off, as a toggle it doesn't require activation time, unlike shiver, so you can jump into the fight with both arctic air and another power at the same time. Second, it's auto-hit. Third, there's the confuse effect. Fourth, it's got a much larger radius than chilling embrace. Fifth, it's got the flee effect, which (considering how little they can actually move) is quite useful extra mitigation. Finally, a PBAoE is much easier to position up close than a cone, and in melee is where doms do their best damage anyway.

I'm not saying that it's unambiguously better than shiver (though I would say it's better than CI - the only area where it's not is end cost, and the huge radius more than outweighs that), but it's certainly a useful addition. Personally, I think the two powers are complementary, and I have both on my build.

Personally, I don't go anywhere without AA up and running. Yes, I am perma but I don't believe I've encountered the endurance issues some of you have.
In my opinion, AA is a 'huge' mitigation tool.
(my 2 cents anyhoo)

Sorry to revive a dying thread, but I've been noticing this a lot, as I've been simultaneously leveling up an Ice/Ice and a Mind/Psi, and even at the early levels (pre-AA) the ice/ice has serious endurance woes compared to Mind/Psi.

They have essentially the same attacks: Single Target Minor Ranged, Single Target Medium Melee, Single Target Medium Ranged

And Ice/Ice is huffing and puffing, while Mind/Psi powers on. Maybe it's just my perception, or it could be a discrepancy in the primaries -- which would really suck, as early levels as Mind are MUCH easier than as Ice. Does anyone know of a source for hard numbers on the adjusted dom primaries and secondaries?

Thanks,
SB

For hard numbers, just look at the in game info. As far as I know, city of data hasn't been updated yet. Both sets have absolutely identical damage per end, as that is baked into the powers formula. One thing about these particular sets, though, is that /ice tends to have quick animation times, which can lead to faster endurance use. Assuming that at these levels you don't have a gapless chain, and are thus using each power as fast as it recharges, end usage for each power looks like this:

Psi dart: 4.37 end, 4.58s cycle, 0.953 end/s
Ice bolt: 5.2 end, 5.188s cycle, 1.002 end/s

Mental blast: 8.528 end, 9.848s cycle, 0.866 end/s
Ice blast: 6.864 end, 7.188s cycle, 0.955 end/s

Mind probe: 10.192 end, 11.32 cycle, 0.900 end/s
TK thrust: 8.528 end, 10.244s cycle, 0.832 end/s
Ice sword: 8.528 end, 9.58s cycle, 0.890 end/s

That's not *huge* differences, but they're there - and the effects of short animation times will actually become more pronounced as attack chains tighten up.

The other possible big difference is in your low level control powers. While the holds are effectively identical, ice may have a ST or AoE immob, while mind may have a confuse. The immobilizes cost a lot of end for relatively poor damage, but you may be tempted into using them to fill out a poor attack chain. Confuse, on the other hand, is likely to *increase* endurance efficiency through causing enemies to damage each other.

Or, it may simply be a perceptual issue. No real way to tell.