is it that good?
It all seems fine all around, but I'd think about changing your IOing in dark servant. It's not providing good bonuses for you, and it's got a hefty downtime unless hasten is up. You want that little guy up as much as possible, so slotting 4 clouded senses in there(focusing on the tohit-debuff/recharge aspect of the set) and then having 2 slots to suit to taste is a good idea.
his mezzes are handy, but they're not nearly as potent or valuable as his massive debuffing potential.
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Quote:
The Dark Servant is huge just by merit of Chill of the Night, the point blank AoE debuff around him that makes him and nearby allies nearly untouchable - 30% base tohit debuff. That's big. All of his at range mezzing and debuffing has tohit debuff in there, too, for extra 'missing' goodness.
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Originally Posted by LtZerge
It all seems fine all around, but I'd think about changing your IOing in dark servant. It's not providing good bonuses for you, and it's got a hefty downtime unless hasten is up. You want that little guy up as much as possible, so slotting 4 clouded senses in there(focusing on the tohit-debuff/recharge aspect of the set) and then having 2 slots to suit to taste is a good idea.
his mezzes are handy, but they're not nearly as potent or valuable as his massive debuffing potential. |
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Quote:
i'll have a look at that.|
Originally Posted by LtZerge
It all seems fine all around, but I'd think about changing your IOing in dark servant. It's not providing good bonuses for you, and it's got a hefty downtime unless hasten is up. You want that little guy up as much as possible, so slotting 4 clouded senses in there(focusing on the tohit-debuff/recharge aspect of the set) and then having 2 slots to suit to taste is a good idea.
his mezzes are handy, but they're not nearly as potent or valuable as his massive debuffing potential. |
it's funny cause i have DS actually up longer than hasten. Currently, with 2 IO recharge enhances in each, DS comes back 14s before the one already summoned dies. so you kinda always chain DS > Hasten. I think it's like hasten recharges in 3m 30s (2 IO) and DS with hasten is 3m 46s.
But without sets he isn't all that powerful..
some good changes like adding a LotG recharge(!!)
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Personally there are a lot of things I would do differently. I don't really get any sense of what set bonuses you're going for, and in many cases I think you've sacrificed extremely important enhancements in favour of set bonuses that don't contribute much.
On slotting the primary pets: The purple set, def aura and resist aura all look good on the surface, but I don't see much reason just to slot one set of each into each pet. The protbot in particular is well worth slotting outside of pet sets with some defense, which will help you (both directly and through the other pets) a lot more than a couple of percentage points of resist bonuses. As such I would do something like the following: Split the purple set up between protbot and a-bot. The 2 and 3 piece bonuses are generally a lot better than the 4-6 ones for a MM, and I'd rather double them up. If you go with 3 pieces of soulbound plus a nucleolus in protbot it's easy to fit in 2 def common IOs. The other 3 pieces can go into a-bot. From there you can also fit the two aura IOs into the a-bot and/or drones. This gives you a lot more freedom on remaining set bonuses. Could place 6 blood mandate into drones for example for the nice def bonuses, or pick up a mixture of health/recovery/def from the early bonuses of various sets.
The slotting in tar patch provides very little recharge, which is far more important than anything else in this power. Personally I'd put 3 recharge in it and call it a day.
Similarly, darkest night really should be maxed out on tohit debuff. The cloud senses proc isn't going to do very much damage in there, and I don't see the set providing enough to make up for the use of 3 tohit debuff commons, for example.
IMO, fearsome stare should be thought of as a tohit debuff power and slotted as such, rather than fear. You can stack a lot of this on bot/dark and I think you're missing the opportunity.
Along the same lines, recharge is probably a lot more useful than anything you're getting in howling twilight. Acc and dam are basically wasted and slow is of marginal use; nor are the set bonuses doing much.
Why a single BotZ in SS? I'd switch it to the -kb IO or 3 slot for the def bonuses.
I'd slot electrifying fences as an attack. Definitely would not spend inf on a single purple for immobilize duration. There generally won't be much alive when it expires unslotted anyway, and you can always use it again. Both fences and static discharge would get a fairly sizeable bump out of damage procs also, so at the very least I'd work the posi's blast proc into static.
(Side note here: you currently have assault bot active under totals, meaning the soulbound proc is being included in damage and hit calculations. This can be misleading, so make sure to check the numbers without this.)
On a final note, I'm uncertain about the set inheritance on fluffy but you may need to be careful. Some of its best powers do not require hit checks and may not inherit clouded senses for the tohit debuff. I'm hoping someone can confirm one way or another.
Dark Armor/Stone Melee Tank Guide [I12]
Quote:
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Originally Posted by LtZerge
You want that little guy up as much as possible, so slotting 4 clouded senses in there(focusing on the tohit-debuff/recharge aspect of the set) and then having 2 slots to suit to taste is a good idea.
his mezzes are handy, but they're not nearly as potent or valuable as his massive debuffing potential. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pyromantic
On a final note, I'm uncertain about the set inheritance on fluffy but you may need to be careful. Some of its best powers do not require hit checks and may not inherit clouded senses for the tohit debuff. I'm hoping someone can confirm one way or another.
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maybe? I 'tried' to get whatever pyro was talking about it
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Quote:
May be a non-issue; I'm really not sure. Not sure if my question is clear either.|
Originally Posted by Fuzz_JDC
that's extremely conflicting.
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Suppose, for example, you were to slot drones with some knockback sets that included accuracy, and then some common damage IOs. Not all the drones' powers deal knockback, and those that don't shouldn't inherit the enhancements from knockback sets. That means that some of its powers will not benefit from accuracy slotting at all.
Dark servant may or may not have this issue with accurate tohit debuff sets. I just don't know the answer, and I'm hoping someone who has tested it can do so. Failing that I got my own bot/dark up to dark servant recently so I could fiddle with it, though it would be a lot easier if I had access to the test server.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fuzz_JDC
maybe? I 'tried' to get whatever pyro was talking about
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If anything I suggested doesn't make sense or seems wrong, please feel free to comment on it. Always interested to get different points of view so that I can improve my own builds.
I guess the main issue I saw was that set slotting seemed too far away from the enhancement slotting I would use if I wasn't worried about sets at all. Obviously there's a trade-off in there where you can sacrifice some enhancement values for set bonuses that ultimately improve the build, often far beyond what you could do with SOs, commons, or frankenslotting, but I don't feel your previous builds accomplished that.
I think a lot of the changes look good, but I see a couple of examples of my point still.
First is protbot. The only meaningful set bonus you're getting out of 6-slotting sovereign right is the 3-ish% def bonus to melee (and consequent s/l bonus). If you did a little frankenslotting and were able to work in a single level 50 def IO, that would amount to nearly 2% def to all* for you through the protbot's shield power, as well as improving the bonus provided to your bots. What you did with drones and a-bot looks good, getting solid bonuses, but I'd try to rework it a little so that protbot gets the extra room it needs to slot for defense.
*: I don't have the numbers in front of me so I'm going by memory.
Fearsome stare really needs the following in considering enhancements: enough accuracy to be effective, followed by as much recharge and tohit debuff as you can. You don't have enough accuracy set bonuses to do away with slotting the power for acc, so I'd work some in. You could use an accurate tohit debuff set, frankenslot a little, find an extra slot for it, or as a quick fix replace the tohit debuff/end IO with a lysosome. Losing 2% damage buff is trivial for a MM.
Don't have much more time at the moment but I'll take a good look at the whole build later.
As a final question though, what kind of budget are you looking at? Some of the sets you've included are very expensive, while at other times it feels like you're going for sets because they're cheap.
Dark Armor/Stone Melee Tank Guide [I12]
Quote:
avoiding KB (i think that was clear). Can't guarantee that EVERY foe will be held and it'll annoy people if it so happens the foe you KB happens to be the one they are attacking.|
Originally Posted by Pyromantic
Suppose, for example, you were to slot drones with some knockback sets that included accuracy, and then some common damage IOs. Not all the drones' powers deal knockback, and those that don't shouldn't inherit the enhancements from knockback sets. That means that some of its powers will not benefit from accuracy slotting at all.
If anything I suggested doesn't make sense or seems wrong, please feel free to comment on it. Always interested to get different points of view so that I can improve my own builds. As a final question though, what kind of budget are you looking at? Some of the sets you've included are very expensive, while at other times it feels like you're going for sets because they're cheap. |
nothing seems wrong (nothing is wrong with reason) just didn't make a whole lot of sense.
Quote:
We appear to be at completely cross purposes here. I am not suggesting you slot kb sets. I am pointing out that a pet's powers have a list of permitted sets themselves, and just because a pet power takes a certain set doesn't mean the powers it uses will inherit those enhancements. I am simply using drones as an example.|
Originally Posted by Fuzz_JDC
avoiding KB (i think that was clear). Can't guarantee that EVERY foe will be held and it'll annoy people if it so happens the foe you KB happens to be the one they are attacking.
nothing seems wrong (nothing is wrong with reason) just didn't make a whole lot of sense. |
If you go to your enhancement management screen and hover over battle drones, you will see knockback as one of the set categories allowed. If you then click the "show detailed info" button, you will see a drone's basic powers listed including laser burst. Click on that, and you see its info, which includes some energy damage but no knockback. That laser burst power itself also has a bunch of enhancement set categories that it accepts; unfortunately it just isn't displayed in the game, but as far as I'm aware knockback sets aren't on that list. This means that the drone pretends it doesn't have any enhancement from knockback sets when using laser burst.
Suppose you were level 50 and had the following enhancements slotted in battle drones:
- kinetic crash: accuracy/knockback (50)
- blood mandate: damage/endurance (50)
- nucleolus exposure (50)
- invention: endurance reduction (50)
- damage SO (50)
When a drone uses laser burst it will look at these enhancements to see what enhancement values it actually gets. The kinetic crash is from a knockback set and laser burst doesn't take those, so the attack won't receive those enhancement values. All pet attack powers should inherit pet damage sets so it will get the damage and endurance enhancement from the blood mandate. The nucleolus exposure, endurance common IO and damage SO are not part of invention sets and should be inherited by all the pet's powers that can use them, including laser burst.
In the case of dark servant, some of its best powers don't have tohit checks. That means those powers may not have accurate tohit debuff sets listed as allowed enhancement set categories. Just because fluffy itself takes those enhancements doesn't mean that the powers it uses does. In that case slotting clouded senses may not do anything at all for some of its best powers.
edit: this also means that those two IOs you have slotted from lockdown won't apply to anything except petrifying gaze, as that should be the only one of fluffy's powers that takes hold sets. When you're looking at pets with a wide variety of powers like this you need to be very careful how you're enhancing it. Hamis are often a good option as they aren't part of sets and the enhancement values apply to everything. Tohit debuff (not accurate tohit debuff) sets should be really safe since they apply to just about everything fluffy does. I don't have access to test at the moment, nor do I have the resources to mess with my dark servant's slotting on live. I've been hoping someone that does would chime in with some definitive answers.
It would be nice if this information was more readily available in game, but it's not. Players aren't always getting the enhancements they think they are on pet powers, whether because the system isn't working the way they think it is, the set inheritance doesn't match their expectations, or simply because of a bug.
The best case of the last one that I know of us was carrion creepers from plant control. The actual functioning of the power was a convoluted set of pets that summon pets that use powers. While the carrion creepers power itself accepted certain enhancements, a break in this inheritance chain meant that those values weren't being applied to anything the power was actually doing. This has since been fixed.
Dark Armor/Stone Melee Tank Guide [I12]
Thanks so much for that explanation Pyro. I too have a Bots/Dark/Mu MM I am working on doing enhancements for and this cleared a lot up. I think I had heard about this before but never fully understood what was going on until now.
I had Cloud Senses in my Dark Servant so now will rework it. That power more then any of the others is giving me fits in trying to work out a good enhancement. Thanks again for the detailed info!
Hi there. I currently have lvl 49 Bots/Dark MM and am having much fun with it. Only problem I have is that I took the Soul mastery Epic. Soul tentacles doesn't have a -KB component so Bots are always knocking mobs out of Tar patch. Will be taking Mu mastery when I respec a lvl 50.
This is my build I will respec into when I reach lvl 50.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery
Villain Profile:
------------
Level 1: Battle Drones BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg:50(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx:50(3), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx:50(7), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(9), BldM'dt-Acc:50(33), EdctM'r-PetDef:40(33)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp Nictus-Heal:50(A), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg:50(3), Nictus-Acc/Heal:50(7), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen:50(9), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33)
Level 2: Tar Patch RechRdx-I:50(A), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow:40(37)
Level 4: Darkest Night Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb:30(A), Cloud-ToHitDeb:30(5), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg:30(5), Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:30(25)
Level 6: Equip Robot EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 8: Hover LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), Zephyr-ResKB:50(15), Zephyr-Travel:50(42), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(42)
Level 10: Provoke Zinger-Acc/Rchg:50(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(11), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg:50(11), Zinger-Taunt/Rng:50(40)
Level 12: Protector Bots SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(A), SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg:50(13), SvgnRt-Dmg/EndRdx:50(13), SvgnRt-PetResDam:40(17), SvgnRt-Acc:50(17), HO:Cyto(19)
Level 14: Fly Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(15)
Level 16: Swift Flight-I:50(A)
Level 18: Health Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(19)
Level 20: Stamina P'Shift-EndMod:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(21), P'Shift-End%:50(34)
Level 22: Shadow Fall HO:Ribo(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(23), HO:Cyto(46)
Level 24: Howling Twilight Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg:50(A), Stpfy-Acc/Rchg:50(25), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun:50(50)
Level 26: Assault Bot BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg:50(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx:50(27), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx:50(27), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(31), BldM'dt-Acc:50(31), BldM'dt-Dmg:50(31)
Level 28: Maneuvers LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(29)
Level 30: Petrifying Gaze Lock-Acc/Hold:50(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg:50(34), Lock-Rchg/Hold:50(34), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(43), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(43), Lock-%Hold:50(43)
Level 32: Upgrade Robot EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 35: Tactics GSFC-ToHit:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(36), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(36), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(36), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(37), GSFC-Build%:50(37)
Level 38: Dark Servant Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb:30(A), Cloud-ToHitDeb:30(39), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg:30(39), Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:30(39), Nictus-Acc/Heal:50(40), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg:50(40)
Level 41: Charged Armor HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(42), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(50), S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(50)
Level 44: Electrifying Fences TotHntr-Acc/Rchg:50(A), TotHntr-EndRdx/Immob:50(45), TotHntr-Acc/EndRdx:50(45), TotHntr-Immob/Acc:50(45), TotHntr-Acc/Immob/Rchg:50(46), TotHntr-Dam%:50(46)
Level 47: Fearsome Stare Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb:30(A), Cloud-Acc/Rchg:30(48), Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:30(48), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg:30(48)
Level 49: Repair RechRdx-I:50(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
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The build has Ranged and AOE defense in the 30's. With the extra bubble from a Pro bot taking them up to low 40's. Have also taken provoke. Works well in BG mode to pull attention of the Boss/EB/AV/Hero away from the bots. I like to tank a bit.
No purples in the build. I just don't have the infamy or patience to get them.
Hope this will give you a few more ideas for your build.
Union/Defiant
@Wistaria.
@Dark Relic
Hami-Os are too expensive to obtain redside (< 75mill). It's why i go without them.
ok, I hit 50 and have something similar to this build. needs the usual critique. i feel the slots are assigned right but not so sure about the enhancements I picked for some of the powers.
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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