If we're talking SOs, 2acc 3rech on SD and 1acc 3rech (2 endmod optional) on DC is what I'd suggest
Are you talking IOs or normal slotting? Normal slotting I generally eschew slotting them for damage simply because the damage for the attacks isn't particularly splendid. They're support powers, not attacks. For IOs, both of them do great with Obliteration, simply because Obliteration has great set bonuses and gives them exactly what they need: +acc and +rech, along with a since side benefit of +dam and +end redux.
Also, neither of them should be slotted for their buffs (end mod and +tohit). The end drain in Dark Consumption is large enough that, if you slot it, it's simply allowing you to cap your blue bar with 2-3 targets rather than 4 (which is kinda pointless considering that, in 99% of the situations you should be using it in, you're surrounded by 8-10). With Soul Drain, it's already packing a huge +tohit buff, large enough that making it bigger is pretty much redundant.
TL: DR answer:
Common IOs or SOs, 1 acc, 3 rech is all you should give it.
Set IOs: Obliteration is best. Scirocco's is decent, but not as great because it's light on +rech. PerfShifter/Gaussian's/Any other set should be off limits simply because you'd be enhancing attributes of the power that are pointless to enhance.
I would think it would depend on your style of play. If you are building towards being able to take down tough single targets I wouldn't slot them for damage to keep minions around to power them. In normal game play DM/SD get Shadow Maul and Shield Charge for AoE outside of Soul Drain and Dark Consumption. I might not specifically aim for damage in the powers, but I would slot them for set bonuses, so depending on your other choices damage sets are usually a good place for bonuses.
Poisonous Ice 50 Ice/Rad
Icy Jax 50 Ice/SS
Jaxon Penn 50 Shield/Mace
Cpt Clax 50 Thugs/Dark
Lady BlackIce 50 Dark/Cold
Lady Black Ice 50 Dark/Ice
Bella Jax 50 Storm/Sonic
Operative Jax 50 SoA
Level 50 Trick Arrow Alts
TA/A-Plant/TA-Bots/TA
Level 50 Claws Scrappers
SR-Regen-DA-Invul-WP-FA
Common IO or SO 1 acc and 3 rech. I don't care about the damage it does I just want the powers to hit and rech fast. You can slot end mod in DC but it is a waste most of the time because if you hit more then 3 foes your going to have a full end bar.
Now for set IO, it is up to you and what set bounes you like. For me I like Obliteration the best. The set bounes are very nice and it gives it good rech too.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
You should definitely slot them for accuracy and recharge with regular enhancments
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Slotting those powers for damage isn't bad, per se, it's just a question of priorities. With standard IOs, accuracy and recharge take priority. After that, it's a question of where else you could spend those slots and get more benefit than a little extra damage from SD and DC. I'm almost certain you'll always find someplace to get more bang for your buck.
If you start talking about set IOs, thing start to change because the sets you'll slot into the power will almost certainly have damage enhancement - the trick then is to keep the recharge enhancement high while using sets. (Obliteration as Umbral mentioned, is a good set because it has a lot of recharge.)
[edit: If you're trying to build for AV soloing and have a set that can manage to survive herds of enemies, slotting SD/DC for damage could be counter productive because it would kill your fuel in a hurry. This is a very specific application, though. I'm only mentioning it for completeness sake.]
basic SO sloting you want 2acc and 3rech (unless your running tactics or FA, then just 1acc will do), ... but if your talking set IO's, then it really depends on what your focus will be, if your planing on farming with it then obliterates are the way to go, but if your looking for an AV solo'ist then you'll want either less to no damage to keep the fuel there (esspecially for AAO) and/or more focus on the end in DC with Pro'Shift or Eff'Adapt for full effect 1on1, or something completely different for PvP, or something focused on the lower lvl IO's (and purps) for exemping (TF runs, AE stories, FB's, ect...),... so without an actual end goal, the answers are really all over the place
Truth is, once you get into IO builds, Dark Consumption becomes rather optional. In most cases it hard to justify keeping it.
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It's only optional if you want to take Stamina. If you want to actually get a 4th power pool that isn't Fitness, then Dark Consumption is friggin' awesome. My DM/Regen build has to be manhandled pretty significantly to get it to work with any other primary simply because Dark Consumption is such a powerful end tool that it allows me to ignore pretty much everything else.
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Originally Posted by Desmodos
Truth is, once you get into IO builds, Dark Consumption becomes rather optional. In most cases it hard to justify keeping it.
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Originally Posted by Umbral_NA
It's only optional if you want to take Stamina. If you want to actually get a 4th power pool that isn't Fitness, then Dark Consumption is friggin' awesome. My DM/Regen build has to be manhandled pretty significantly to get it to work with any other primary simply because Dark Consumption is such a powerful end tool that it allows me to ignore pretty much everything else.
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I would concede Dark Consumption would be more useful on a non-stamina build but I'd think for Regen or WP it would remain rather optional. Granted, if you wish to ignore endurance management via IOs to focus on other areas, DC would be a good alternative.
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Funny you should mention that because I've been looking on how to up my AoE in my DM/SD scrapper by removing Shadow Maul and putting Energy Torrent. Then a friend mentioned, why not keep both? The plan *is* sound, two cones is better than one, but I've no room for anything to be removed other than... Dark Consumption.|
Originally Posted by Desmodos
Truth is, once you get into IO builds, Dark Consumption becomes rather optional. In most cases it hard to justify keeping it.
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I still use it a fair bit, but I also have FA running all the time (with DC its endurance cost isn't a problem). What did become optional because of DC was Conserve Power who sits in my tray looking pretty.
If/when the EU test room comes up I might just try that, remove DC, add ET, and then play a few hard missions and try to rely on CP alone.
A roughly 90 second recharge when it ends is probably a bit much though, FA might just have to leave solo play and become a set mule/Cim/LGTF team power.
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Unless you've got to take Conserve Power (most likely to qualify for ET if you're going to eschew LBE), you shouldn't even think of dropping DC for it.|
Originally Posted by Kanto2
Funny you should mention that because I've been looking on how to up my AoE in my DM/SD scrapper by removing Shadow Maul and putting Energy Torrent. Then a friend mentioned, why not keep both? The plan *is* sound, two cones is better than one, but I've no room for anything to be removed other than... Dark Consumption.
I still use it a fair bit, but I also have FA running all the time (with DC its endurance cost isn't a problem). What did become optional because of DC was Conserve Power who sits in my tray looking pretty. If/when the EU test room comes up I might just try that, remove DC, add ET, and then play a few hard missions and try to rely on CP alone. A roughly 90 second recharge when it ends is probably a bit much though, FA might just have to leave solo play and become a set mule/Cim/LGTF team power. |
Assuming that you're packing 200% +rech in whichever power you go with (not unlikely considering IO builds) and ignoring activation times, DC is going to be up once every 60 seconds, and CP would be up for 90 seconds every 200 seconds. Even with only a single target around, DC would be providing 2.375 end/sec (1 target = 25 end, once per minute, 95% chance to hit). CP would have a 45% uptime which means that it generates 53.64% end redux on average.
In order for Conserve Power to even equal the blue bar benefit of Dark Consumption, you'd need to have no end redux slotted in anything and be burning 6.803 end/sec via toggles and activated powers. With 50% end redux in everything, you would need to be burning through 13.525 end/sec in order to equal DC's blue bar contribution. I highly doubt any build, even crazy on toggles, is going to be burning quite that much endurance. And keep in mind, that's assuming worst case for DC and best case for CP.
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Originally Posted by Umbral_NA
Unless you've got to take Conserve Power (most likely to qualify for ET if you're going to eschew LBE), you shouldn't even think of dropping DC for it.
Assuming that you're packing 200% +rech in whichever power you go with (not unlikely considering IO builds) and ignoring activation times, DC is going to be up once every 60 seconds, and CP would be up for 90 seconds every 200 seconds. Even with only a single target around, DC would be providing 2.375 end/sec (1 target = 25 end, once per minute, 95% chance to hit). CP would have a 45% uptime which means that it generates 53.64% end redux on average. In order for Conserve Power to even equal the blue bar benefit of Dark Consumption, you'd need to have no end redux slotted in anything and be burning 6.803 end/sec via toggles and activated powers. With 50% end redux in everything, you would need to be burning through 13.525 end/sec in order to equal DC's blue bar contribution. I highly doubt any build, even crazy on toggles, is going to be burning quite that much endurance. And keep in mind, that's assuming worst case for DC and best case for CP. |
You're absolutly correct Umbral. I *LIKE* DC and it is one of the tools that make DM so much fun to play. The thirty second BU power, the half bar with one mob from DC, the powerful ST damage.
It's just a conjecture though, the plan is to take out SM and put ET in it. No other changes. It would hurt me to remove DC on a near physical plane, but I just want to test if I could live with only CP and have two cones in the build.
Or ditch the Body epic and go for Weapon. I'd lose CP but I seldom use it at all, I'd still get my FA power for mule and fun, a targeted AoE and Caltrops. The last not particulary useful to add more AoE because of the scatter. Perhaps Web Grenade and save the slots, not that it would really see much use either IMO.
Should I be slotting these for damage? I was playing my Dm/Sd today and noticed some pretty decent damage comming from what I thought were tool powers. I've been slotting them for acc and rech and calling it a day, but now it seems a little damage would be usefull. What do you guys think?