illusion kin - first serious controller build

Sorry guys, I've had to split my post into sections, for some reason it wouldn't take it as a whole.

Firstly I'd like to say that's it's a pleasure and an honour to be able to contribute on the same boards as some of you guys, Local Man you're my hero.

Having said that, when reading the US boards I always felt that Ill/Kin was sold short as a combo.

When talking about Illusion and the best secondary to use, the argument put foward is always the same
PA is the best/most damaging power
PA can't be buffed so debuffing def/resistance of mobs equates to a damage buff.

The above statement being true the best secondaries are Rad, Storm and TA.

What the above statement doesn't take into account is Epics, in particular the Stone Epic.

I've got a number of Controllers including Ill/Storm and Fire/Rad and for normal PVE, the area between soloing AV's and farming, I've found the Ill/Kin to be the best.

The Synergy between Illusion and Kinetics is this
Kinetics needs to be played in melee and Illusion allows you to play there better than any other primary, add the Stone Epic into to the mix and you have additional control, a reliable source of AoE containment with good damage.

If you play an Ill/Kin like a Controller, in front of the mobs with Phantasm just off of your shoulder you get all of the issues that are usually raised.

Phantasm knockback
Unuble to buff Phantasm
Unable to heal Phantasm

I've tried all of the epics and would agree that playing this way Ill/Kin doesn't shine.
An Ill/Kin/Stone Controller should be played more like a Scrapper.

I run GI permenantly for the Inviisibility/Stealth and reduced threat level (more End efficient than SI)
Siphon Speed means I've got permenant PA (on a small budget, 1 purple set in Deceive, 3 LotG + Recharge, all the rest are cheap sets)pulling the aggro
Spooky to lock down mobs
Phantasm and the decoy pulling aggro.
I can regenerate over 400HP every few seconds
With Trasnference I have no End isues.
With FS and SP I get a massive damage boost

With this alt I do the damage via the Stone Epic and Kinetics, PA and the rest of the Illusion set allow me to do this.

I basically jump into the middle of mobs and challenge them to kill me, I can solo 8 man invincible/Unyielding spawns this way.

I can often out survive Granite Tanks and outdamage Scrappers.

By playing this way you also negate most of the issues put against Ill/Kin
Phantasm Knockback - if you jump to the middle/far side of the mob any KB will take the target towards you not away.
Phantasm is pretty well behaved and tries to come to you so positioning yourself in the mobs tends to draw him in, I can usually have him FS'd about 30% of the time, same with heals, he rarely dies.

I've also got a Force Feedback + Recharge in Phantasm - pre the pet recharge nerf this used to force him into melee when it fired, I'm not sure if this is still the case. Since the change I have seen him go into melee when I haven't been but I've not tested it fully.

So all in all a very good combo that really needs to be played as a Scrapptroller.

You'll never outdamage a Fire/Kin and you'll never solo an AV as well as an Ill/Rad or Ill/Storm but
or normal PVE it's a fun frenetic build that does good damage.

Again my apologies for the split reply, kept getting bad input when typed as a whole.

Thanks for the input Psiphon, I'd already planned to take the stone epic pool because it seems to be the best choice by far. And now after hearing that it's able to redeem this build despite its clashing play styles, I have higher hopes for my troller. Although, I think I'm going to shelf my ill/kin for now, but I will definitely come back to him.

While Illusion and Kinetics have some significant synergy problems, I have always said that the two sets together aren't bad. Illusion is a great set. Kinetics is a great set. And even though they have some problems working together, the combination of two great sets is going to make a good controller. I have one myself.

But if your goal was to make an Illusion controller, then Rad, Storm and TA synergize better. If your goal was to make a */Kinetics Controller, then Fire, Ice, Plant, Grav, Mind and maybe even Earth work better. Sets with buffable damage, preferably AoE damage, can take advantage of Kinetics more than Illusion. The Earth APP set is a very good choice to make any Kinetics character better, with a short-range AoE damage power (with an occasional stun) and a single target clobber attack. But that would be true of any */Kin controller, not just Illusion.

Still, the strategy hints posted above are very good ways to work with the set.

Actually, I would go as far to say Illusion benefits the least from kin, sure Psiphon had some good tactics. Still there is too much scatter with Phantasm's torrent (he'll use it in melee too) to be efficient (especially for farming).

Even with the Earth APP you will not get consistent containment damage (which really shines on Earth APP), as you do not have an immobilize available. With PA i'm sure you can survive alot (I've solo'd Envoy of Shadows with Ill/Emp), but it still puts the Ill/Kin on the low end of damages or synergy.

You mention gravity... I also have a grav/kin but I find I can rarely apply FS to singy because 1. His attacks are ranged and 2. If he DOES jump into a mob, he flings them all away Therefore, yet again, my 2 sets don't really meld very well. I'm almost fed up of my ill/kin so do you have any tips for my grav instead?

My Illusion/Kin has been one of my best solo'ers. As good as my Spines scrappers. 1-50 I never felt a lack of synergy.

But I am almost always in melee and always the first to aggro a group. I use the fire epic though.

One of my favorite controllers, can solo well, can tank, can stealth, can control, can buff. Great all around performer IMHO.

I don't believe the concensus here is that Ill/kin can't solo, it just both sets don't benefit optimally together.....any 2 sets can be played together, and I'm sure perform quite well in the hands of any player.

It's pretty much PA gains no benefit from Fulcrum, and it takes some effort for Phantasm to make it to mobs to gain any benefit. If you wondering why I keep dogging on lack of Fulcrum's ability to augment Illusion fully.....It's what you got Kinetics for (don't lie to yourself, and say it isn't)

Solo, I would say an Ill/Rad, Ill/Storm or Ill/TA are as survivable and have better damage. Kin is a great buffing set, but has few debuffs (none of which boost damage or accuracy to help PA) and almost no defensive powers (assuming you skip Repel). (Siphon Speed debuffs speed and recharge, Siphon Power and FS debuff damage.)

Ill/Rad throws out PA, then EF debuffs the Resistance, Damage, and RI debuff Defense and ToHit of the foes. This means that PA, Phantasm and you all hit more often and do more damage, while the foes hit you less often and do less damage . . . and you have a self heal to take care of that damage without having to siphon off of a foe or be in melee.

Ill/Storm also has Resistance and defense debuffs, but has more defensive powers in Hurricane (with a huge ToHit Debuff) and the knockback of Gale, Tornado (with a stun) and Lightning Storm. Add the slow in Snow Storm and Freezing Rain.

Ill/TA uses staying at Range, with huge debuffs and ranged controls, plus a nice ranged AoE damage power.

Overall, any Illusion set can be played to be very safe with the right use of Phantom Army and lots of Deceive. Deceive alone will let you clear a room solo while invisible. The debuffs boost the damage and accuracy from Phantom Army, Phantasm and you. How does that comprare to the damage buff from Fulcrum Shift? Well, since FS doesn't affect PA and only hits Phantasm once in a while, I think it would be pretty comparable if not better. I haven't actually tested it, though.

It's not very exciting, but you can solo cranked up radios pretty easily. Just take the ones that are click the glowie or beat the boss. Stealth to the end, wipe out one group. Rinse and repeat. Pretty easy XP solo.

My build - In fact my main, he has an answer to most things........


Sorry having trouble with mids, never mind