It's possible for a tanker to make Active Defense perma by level 12.
You just have to 4 slot with level 15 common IOs.
I really should do something about this signature.
It's funny how Ninjitsu and Super Reflexes don't seem to get anywhere near this amount of flak for having clicky mez protection. Even though Shields has the strongest one of the three, providing protection against the most effects, as well as Defense Debuff resistance.
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It's possible for a tanker to make Active Defense perma by level 12.
You just have to 4 slot with level 15 common IOs.
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I knew that fact Praf, I stated it days ago. You can get slowed. Its not perma enough.
As for Ninja and SR I will highlight the fact that they're on other ATs that aren't necessarily effected by every nme npc you can aggro cap and don't have the expectation of doing aggro control like Tanks do.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Shields also has -recharge resistance.
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I knew that fact Praf, I stated it days ago. You can get slowed. Its not perma enough.
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I don't know about you but I don't spend much time fighting mobs which can both slow and mez at level 12.
and at high level, you can get recharge high enough to resist 40% recharge slow even without set bonuses and the slow resist power.
I think you are making a huge fuss over a very minor weakness.
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SR I will highlight the fact that they're on other ATs that aren't necessarily effected by every nme npc you can aggro cap
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SR brutes. Don't here them moaning.
I really should do something about this signature.
You don't see SR Brutes tanking till late do you?
They're safe in the knowledge quickness comes later at 35, safe in the knowledge that they're taunt aura is at 20 and not lvl 8, and safe in the knowledge that they can pretty much scrap their way thru game, for many levels they're not going to have every enemies attention for very long to get that much in the way of stacked slows.
Praf I don't solo the sodding thing. I will be the one tanking properly asap. I do know these slows, Frostfire and co, gets herded asap. You get slowed by CoT, you get slowed by Outcasts. Toggles suppress and you got nothing, shields down and aggro passed on. Now I know you can hasten things but I don't expect new players to come in and do all that necessary stuff. An early impression from watching Ice have np may make them re roll.
So now, when we think of Shield Tanks and what they can do we think of them automatically with Fight Pool, Speed Pool, Med Pool and Fitness Pool in order to be good.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I will be the one tanking properly asap
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Which for just about any tank, is level 22.
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Toggles suppress and you got nothing, shields down and aggro passed on.
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And it takes an awful lot of slow to do that (at least -80%).
And if it looks likely, you can activate OWTS.
And if that fails it is easily countered by a break free. Which is more than can be said about Invn's Psi hole.
just accept that whist you might have a problem with clicky mez protection, other people do not.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I will be the one tanking properly asap
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Which for just about any tank, is level 22.
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Don't be daft, earlier than that, when you go up in levels you go onto better enhancements but then at the same time the enemies become more challenging, so lower levels = less challenging anyway. In the lower levels its 12 on for most Tank types I'd imagine with good teams despite level 6 being plausible, especially those of SG teams normally the Tanking can start. The entire Atta mission can be done on other peoples insps for back up if there is neither a defender or controller present so its not that bad. Unhastened Shields? yeah 22 it starts to get better, bit gutting really.
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Toggles suppress and you got nothing, shields down and aggro passed on.
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And it takes an awful lot of slow to do that (at least -80%).
And if it looks likely, you can activate OWTS.
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Hold up I've had my Active Defense slowed to not recharging in time prior to even being able to get OWS like 24 lvls prior. Getting slowed with an only just permable Active Defense doesn't require 80%. When I talk about lower levels I don't mean 32 onwards anyways.
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And if that fails it is easily countered by a break free. Which is more than can be said about Invn's Psi hole.
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At low levels on one long TF you can run out of BFs, in some teams vs certain reps you can run out of insps altogether.
Invuln has a Psi hole, Shields has a Psi hole what's the difference? Oh wait, all Invulns, when thought about, must come with leap pool, fitness, fight pool and now Psi def and psi resists.
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just accept that whist you might have a problem with clicky mez protection, other people do not.
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How about I accept that I and some others have a problem with it whilst you and some others do not? Because that is the reality.
I think some people level skipping much content as they go, missing out on how things would of been had they done it when they lacked the slots.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Hold up I've had my Active Defense slowed to not recharging in time prior to even being able to get OWS like 24 lvls prior. Getting slowed with an only just permable Active Defense doesn't require 80%.
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Ok, checked my maths, and it's actually 50% recharge slow that is required to bring down AD for a fraction of a second.
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Invuln has a Psi hole, Shields has a Psi hole what's the difference?
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The difference is, Shields does not have a psi hole, as positional defense works against most psionic attacks, and AaO works against all psi attacks in melee range. Shield tankers can quite easily tank Psi Clockwork king. I tanked him with my shield scrapper. And I don't have Aid Self, or Tough, or Weave.
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I think some people level skipping much content as they go, missing out on how things would of been had they done it when they lacked the slots.
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It's true, I find I miss an awful lot of the low level content because it's virtually impossible to go through those levels slowly now. I guess I'm going to have to start turning on the no XP option.
I really should do something about this signature.
Edit: already answered by praf
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Shields does not have a psi hole
[/ QUOTE ]Quoted for emphasis. What psi powers other than [Dominate] are non-positional, by the way?
Even Dominate is sometimes positional. I separate positional damage from psionic damage, shields has no def to psi. Posting between load screens is clearly not time enough for me think in the round about way. XD I did in fact actually read your comment wrong as well and for both things I apologize.
I've had plenty of downtime moments with that active defense.
Lets say you find the 4 DO slots for it to near perma, so that its now 119.5 secs rechg, you then add the cast time, 1.5 secs, probs occur. I am not happy with finding 4 or 5 DO slots but then maybe the idea is to make haste of value at those levels.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
You did say its perma- able at 4 DO slots before didn't you Praf, in this thread and we do get it down to 119.5 sec like that and then add the cast time of 1.5 secs and get 121 secs which is 1 sec beyond the 120 duration and yet to your maths it still takes 50% -rechg for problems to occur don't it?
*Tired of dying after writing for too long during a load screen* 
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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You did say its perma- able at 4 DO slots before didn't you Praf
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No, I said it was permable with 4 level 15 common IOs.
(I'm not 100% sure, but I think the protection starts at the begining of the cast time anyway).
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yet to your maths it still takes 50% -rechg for problems to occur don't it?
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Yes, but I was talking about standard play, not at teany levels (which pass so quickly I rarely bother slotting them at all) after you get it 3 slotted with SOs/higher level IOs, and have GC.
Of course, once you start adding in common effects like Hasten, set bonuses and stuff, it rises to 120% or more. And then the mezzes still have to hit you through positional defense to actually affect you.
Personally, having played both, and ignoring other things in the sets, I would choose AD ahead of Wet Ice as my mez protection, because I have been [censored] far to many times by Fear effects, but I have never, ever, been [censored] by slows with AD.
I really should do something about this signature.
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You did say its perma- able at 4 DO slots before didn't you Praf
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No, I said it was permable with 4 level 15 common IOs.
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I do apologize, I really gonna have to stop rush reading these things between load times XD.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Either way, Im no longer going to argue over this, but if you think shields are that good, play one.
Compared to another tank without sets at 50 you will die the fastest guaranteed. Defence doesnt work when you have a mass concentration of attacks unless you hit cap.
People can argue on here all they want, but go and actually play one and see if you still feel they are gods gift to tanking. Having raised a few tankers to 50, this was the only one ive ever deleted because it was just awful.
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People can argue on here all they want, but go and actually play one and see if you still feel they are gods gift to tanking. Having raised a few tankers to 50, this was the only one ive ever deleted because it was just awful.
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Played one and grouped with several. They're more than fine to me.
So just because you can't play one they're rubbish? I didn't know your (lack of) playing skills are the norm for whats bad or not...
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(I'm not 100% sure, but I think the protection starts at the begining of the cast time anyway).
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Either way, Im no longer going to argue over this, but if you think shields are that good, play one.
Compared to another tank without sets at 50 you will die the fastest guaranteed. Defence doesnt work when you have a mass concentration of attacks unless you hit cap.
People can argue on here all they want, but go and actually play one and see if you still feel they are gods gift to tanking. Having raised a few tankers to 50, this was the only one ive ever deleted because it was just awful.
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Here is where I think your right..
This game was made based on SOs. PvE wasn't changed for IOs, it wasn't made any harder. So when it comes to thinking in terms of slotting I really, really didn't even consider IOs.
Not the low levels anyway.
Now unlike Praf my Shield tank has looked at almost every contact I could have, yes I turn XP off, I may jump mishes in between arcs for whatever reason but I found the lower levels lacking through this, but have to say mainly on TFs and instead of IOs, you pile slots, you'd rather have elsewhere, into Active Defense and have somewhat a forced respec later.
I am not gonna look like I am hating shields anymore, I got 1 tank, 2 brutes already and a Shield scrapper planned but I just feel something is lacking and in terms of my enjoyment this was it mainly.
Without IOs or compulsory powerpools I am not sure this set compares fairly albeit arguably really and I think thats what you may agree with.
I don't think this set will go without future changes.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
But... -All- Defense sets suck with SOs and without defense from pool powers (except maybe Ice Armor). I don't see how that changes the argument at all.
I am not sure how all defense sets suck purely on SOs, thats not in my experience. I was since, Def changes pretty darn happy with my SR in PvE. Not in PvP obviously and add to that when you died, PB wasn't readily there which is another bug bear of mine to be put in the pit of hate.
Def wise I would do fine I think considering the +hp and res + shield charge but with prolly aid self as I likes it.
I know this shield set, if boosted "slightly" in certain ways + had the 4 best powerpools it could be over the top.
A lower rechg active def would boost the lower levels from freeing up slots and freeing up slots could boost the set slightly in a non balance compromising way. But I not really gone into numbers since I7 and Dr Rock was lots of help to me anyways.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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But... -All- Defense sets suck with SOs and without defense from pool powers (except maybe Ice Armor). I don't see how that changes the argument at all.
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Ice Armor needs sets/pools to get anywhere close to the def cap.
I don't have Weave (for concept reasons), and I don't normally hit the cap until I manage to get my second EA fired off.
I really should do something about this signature.
Post deleted by Shannon
I got to Stone and that can use a heck of lot of slots if your mad enough.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I usually use 5 slots for shields, or 4 with frankenslotting.
I really should do something about this signature.
Don't get me wrong I am not saying it's not a good tanky. It is, and an easily loved one. Somit is possibly missing somewhere in late levels and in the early levels the long recharge of active defense is a PITA.
We will see.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.