Mastermind "Self-Multiplication" Set!
By
Butik,
Posted on: 2008-12-28 22:06 in Suggestions and Ideas
The problem is you get the MM primay set, which is all pet summoning, enhancing, etc..., and the MM secondary set, which is teeny bit of damage and a mix of heals, buffs, and debuffs. Basic character generation rules (for all ATs, not just MMs), means you can mix primaries and secondaries more or less at will (a few recent shield-related restrictions aside), and for MMs all the damage comes from the pets.
If the new MM primary is all about duplicating the main toon and whichever of the current secondary sets it's using, all you'll get is a bunch of low damage, buff/debuff/heal-oriented pets. This'll be both wimpy, and probably beyond what current pet AI can manage without major enhancing.
U can make the duplicates have abilities just like pets 
. They will just look like you. But anyway that way it would be hard to tell what pet does what. Nice suggestion it would be super if devs could somehow implement it.
u thinking too complicated , guys.
Same rules as any other pet class apply, just that instead of u being in the back, shooting weak ranged attacks at your foes, u´ll be a slightly tougher melee streetfighting or karatekicking guy,having slightly tougher melee duplicates as pets to aid u in battle.
just like u got three rangedattack powers in every other primary MM set, u´ll have three melee powers.
some of the upgrading powers in the primary set may not only benefit the pets,but also you and your personal toughness.
Since these pets are a part of you, there could be a lot of options as to how this synergy could be the basis of some nice powers.like ways, the pets absorb damage, u take(much like it already is ,when u choose defensive stance for your pets- just in this case enhanced):
1.For example, if one of your duplicates dies, u could get a bonus to defense and endurance (since u now have to concentrate on one guy less)
or
2.if u pop an inspiration, your pets could receive a portion of that bonus you are getting (like u get 100% of it and they get 55%)
Lets not think about the secondary set yet and if the pets should have access to any of these powers.Lets just say "no" for starters.
I mean if u are duplicating yourself, you may not have the concentration to let them perform more advanced attacks such as dark miasma feats anyway.
u get my drift?
I think that could be a fun set indeed. I would certainly give it a try.
Basically it is indeed a MM with melee powers instead of ranged. There are a few problems of course. You cant tell the tier 1 tier 2 and tier 3 pets apart from each other and have no way of knowing who you upgraded or not. But in I13 that is less of a problem then before.
well to be able to distinguish them, the tier 1 pets could be slightly translucent or "paler", the tier 2 pets could be real copies of you and the tier 3 could be slightly glowing ....
I don't know about the design issues of self replication, but it MAY work. Many people hold that MM attacks, when all taken, can act as another 'tier's worth of damage.
This set would need to break the mold on masterminds. Rather than 3 tiers, you would be able to duplicate yourself an increasing number of times as you rise in level, peaking at 26. Say, ten copies of yourself at that point. At other levels you would gain attacks, similar to how new equip and upgrade powers bestow attacks to your henchmen.
It's actually a good idea. Hmm. The only problem is one of game design, which is quite large.
Necrobond - 50 BS/Inv Scrapper made in I1
Rickar - 50 Bots/FF Mastermind
Anti-Muon - 42 Warshade
Ivory Sicarius - 45 Crab Spider
Aber ja, nat�rlich Hans nass ist, er steht unter einem Wasserfall.
/unsigned
They would need to implement an entire new technology to create the replicas, and all so that you have a ninja-based MM or something. Really, this is nothing more than a gimmick and not worth the (probably fairly considerable) effort required to do it.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
The game is full of gimmicks, mate. And you're right, it would take a fair bit of effort.
Mainly the hard part is implementing henchmen that not only use player costume pieces, but copy your own. This is above and beyond power customisation. Then there is the rather large hurdle of making your duplicates inherit your attacks. I don't doubt we won't see a set like this, but it's nice to theorise.
Necrobond - 50 BS/Inv Scrapper made in I1
Rickar - 50 Bots/FF Mastermind
Anti-Muon - 42 Warshade
Ivory Sicarius - 45 Crab Spider
Aber ja, nat�rlich Hans nass ist, er steht unter einem Wasserfall.
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Mainly the hard part is implementing henchmen that not only use player costume pieces, but copy your own. This is above and beyond power customisation.
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I'm not sure what that means. What I'm saying is that, if the pets you create are little more than standard MM pets, doing martial arts, or whatever, and having the same powers as (say, a Thugs MM's pets), but they all look like you, then that would require stupid amounts of effort for no actual gain.
If they are going to create a Duplication power set, I'd rather see them do it properly, and not dump it onto MMs because you think the pet mechanism is a suitable base for doing this. It isn't.
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Then there is the rather large hurdle of making your duplicates inherit your attacks. I don't doubt we won't see a set like this, but it's nice to theorise.
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The only reason I suggested this was possible, but too difficult to bother with, is because you said it would be 'thugs in your body shape.' If you actually want it to inherit powers from your sets... nope, sorry, currently not possible at all. The current AI can't just take a bunch of random powers and make them function. It's not up to that job. This has been said several times to be the case, by the developers.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
i wouldnt want it to react to your secondary power set choices.as simple as that.as MM u only got three personal attacks anyway.the replicas, in the course of lvl-up and/or upgrade should have .like every other pet class, a set of melee attacks, based on your three personal attacks.
the focus should be, that with this set you should be able to afford and encouraged to fight together with your pets in melee combat.its not about a huge array of powers,or them adapting ALL your powers down to your pool power choices.
as for them looking exactly like u, i didnt think it would be that big of a deal.but I seem to have been wrong..?
Currently, pets are NPC models. NPC models are one solid lump with a mobile skeleton.
To dumplicate you, they have to effectively become PC models with NPC AI. Every time they are spawned, the game has to check over your costume, create a copy of the model it's using for you, and then, and then spawn it. That's a totally new bit of engine technology you're talking about there, all for a Power Set which is actually just a duplicate of one of the other MM sets with an expensive special effect.
Hence why I said it was just a gimmick and not worth the effort.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
I said... wait, what? I ain't even mentioned the word 'thugs'.
I brought up power customisation because being able to change the appearance of Mastermind pets falls under that. Inheriting the costume from the player would take some new code, as would inheriting powers, which would most likely be stupendously difficult. I only suggested power inheritance as a way to make your own damage and that of your pets scale in a way that agrees with self-replication. It's not going to happen, but it's how I see the set.
Necrobond - 50 BS/Inv Scrapper made in I1
Rickar - 50 Bots/FF Mastermind
Anti-Muon - 42 Warshade
Ivory Sicarius - 45 Crab Spider
Aber ja, nat�rlich Hans nass ist, er steht unter einem Wasserfall.
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I said... wait, what? I ain't even mentioned the word 'thugs'.
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And I was using 'thugs' as an example.
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I brought up power customisation because being able to change the appearance of Mastermind pets falls under that.
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No, it's totally different. The technical reasons why power customisation has problems are nothing to do with why pet customisation has problems.
In fact, being able to 'customise' your MM pet should be technically viable, so long as you just want to seelct from a range of potential models, where as real power customisation is a lot harder (as far as we know, do cross your fingers for I15).
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
What realise now , is: we wont get around opening costumizable pets.If that is implimented, one could at least act as if those pets were duplicates. But you see thats not really all I wanted.Why does everybody enjoy disagreeing so much, in these forums.if u dont like the idea,u dont like it, but if u like it,why does nobody think of ways, it could work.Everybody seems to get off pointing out ways it could NOT work.thats pointless.
If you don't want people to disagree with your ideas don't post them on a discussion board. 
what I wrote... just read it again, Lost Ninja.
I believe in you.
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Why does everybody enjoy disagreeing so much, in these forums.if u dont like the idea,u dont like it, but if u like it,why does nobody think of ways, it could work.Everybody seems to get off pointing out ways it could NOT work.thats pointless.
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Seems pretty clear to me what you said.
I can't comment on the specific games mechanics (life is way too short for that sort of thing) but I do like the idea here.
I'm not in a suitable position to enter the debate on whether or not it could (or would) be implemented, but I like the idea.
It's ideas like this that keep things fresh - even if they can't be directly implemented in the current engine, it still gets the creative thoughts rolling. Constructive comments (either negative or positive) are all part of the process, especially on the suggestions forum, so don't be disuaded by any criticism (if I've spelt that correctly) - it's all good feedback!
Cheers, @RoboTank
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I´ve come to the conclusion(valid or not), that implementing a Mastermind set with pets, that are dublicates,kind of like marvel´s "multiple man" ( http://www.iwatchstuff.com/images/20...ltiple-man.jpg , http://www.comicrelated.com/icon/madrox.jpg ) , would not be a big deal at all!
it could be a pure melee set, you get stronger when the pets are close to you or something like that.
any thoughts?