Walk power, now!

After mentioning power supression, followed by a walk power, it got typed into the chat window and came up glowing

[Walk] - you are taking a leisurely stroll

So there IS a walk power already in the game which we must have, now please!

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Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union

If I had to guess, that's the power used by NPCs to walk. It likely depends on spcific animations in the particular models, and would not work with scalings models, i.e. PCs.

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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

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If I had to guess, that's the power used by NPCs to walk. It likely depends on spcific animations in the particular models, and would not work with scalings models, i.e. PCs.

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Then its about time they made it work. Sorry, but if you bump out on a bigger development team and more kit and suchnot, and *then* say you cant even adapt an NPC feature to work for PCs? Quite lame, really.

Besides, does that apply for all the emotes the NPCs use but we cant? The lying down ones and such? I dont pretend to know how hard or easy it is, but thats the whole *point* of a development team. They develop things, make things, program and code etc. To make things happen.

And, on the issue of Scaling, nearly all NPCs use it, and thats in every shape and size. Tell me that isnt variable scaling.

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We were promised a walk emote many many issues back and nothing came of it (although I have seen it in action when people were lagging for example.)

It's also been featured in a publicity movie for the game... I8 IIRC with Vet Rewards etc.

But yes! Walk, nao plx

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If I had to guess, that's the power used by NPCs to walk. It likely depends on spcific animations in the particular models, and would not work with scalings models, i.e. PCs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then its about time they made it work. Sorry, but if you bump out on a bigger development team and more kit and suchnot, and *then* say you cant even adapt an NPC feature to work for PCs? Quite lame, really.

Besides, does that apply for all the emotes the NPCs use but we cant? The lying down ones and such? I dont pretend to know how hard or easy it is, but thats the whole *point* of a development team. They develop things, make things, program and code etc. To make things happen.

And, on the issue of Scaling, nearly all NPCs use it, and thats in every shape and size. Tell me that isnt variable scaling.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh wait I want a whole raft of new content, new powers, powers customisation but all I got was a stinking walk animation...

Thanks indeedy.

Walk animations for anyone (player or NPC) is QoL and not exactly essential then.

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If I had to guess, that's the power used by NPCs to walk. It likely depends on spcific animations in the particular models, and would not work with scalings models, i.e. PCs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then its about time they made it work. Sorry, but if you bump out on a bigger development team and more kit and suchnot, and *then* say you cant even adapt an NPC feature to work for PCs? Quite lame, really.

Besides, does that apply for all the emotes the NPCs use but we cant? The lying down ones and such? I dont pretend to know how hard or easy it is, but thats the whole *point* of a development team. They develop things, make things, program and code etc. To make things happen.

And, on the issue of Scaling, nearly all NPCs use it, and thats in every shape and size. Tell me that isnt variable scaling.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh wait I want a whole raft of new content, new powers, powers customisation but all I got was a stinking walk animation...

Thanks indeedy.

Walk animations for anyone (player or NPC) is QoL and not exactly essential then.

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They dont need to do a whole issue for the blooming things. They could simply add a ton of emotes in a patch. They dont have to limit content to entire Issues, just really big things like Architecht and suchnot.

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Then its about time they made it work. Sorry, but if you bump out on a bigger development team and more kit and suchnot, and *then* say you cant even adapt an NPC feature to work for PCs? Quite lame, really.

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And I thought you understood why I get irrate when people make statements like that?

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Besides, does that apply for all the emotes the NPCs use but we cant? The lying down ones and such?

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No, actually.

PRAF did an excellent post on the problem. It's to do with the difference between walking and running. Walking involves a pendulum movement of the legs, which means that the pace changes with the overall height of the model, and the length of the legs.

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And, on the issue of Scaling, nearly all NPCs use it, and thats in every shape and size.

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Really, because I've never seen any. Males are male height, females are female height. There are some tall thin Council, and shorter Council, but only the two basic frames. You do not get Council in all heights from 4-foot to 8-foot, all with independently variable leg lengths.

So, no, it's nothing like variable scaling.

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I dont pretend to know how hard or easy it is, but thats the whole *point* of a development team.

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But you do think it's 'quite lame' that they can't change the baseline animation code just so you can have a walk that looks right on your character? (No, I don't know that's what's required either, but I suspect if something like that wasn't required, we would have had walking by now.)

I want walking just as much as you, maybe more, I dunno. However, I'm not going to put my name to a thread that demands that NCNC stop what they're doing and go all out to get a walk animation functioning on PCs.

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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

Quick note about typing [Walk] into chat. If you click the info, don't click the detailed info tab, you'll crash, as many people and myself all found out to our costs early yesterday evening.

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Then its about time they made it work. Sorry, but if you bump out on a bigger development team and more kit and suchnot, and *then* say you cant even adapt an NPC feature to work for PCs? Quite lame, really.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I thought you understood why I get irrate when people make statements like that?

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Besides, does that apply for all the emotes the NPCs use but we cant? The lying down ones and such?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, actually.

PRAF did an excellent post on the problem. It's to do with the difference between walking and running. Walking involves a pendulum movement of the legs, which means that the pace changes with the overall height of the model, and the length of the legs.

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And, on the issue of Scaling, nearly all NPCs use it, and thats in every shape and size.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really, because I've never seen any. Males are male height, females are female height. There are some tall thin Council, and shorter Council, but only the two basic frames. You do not get Council in all heights from 4-foot to 8-foot, all with independently variable leg lengths.

So, no, it's nothing like variable scaling.

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I dont pretend to know how hard or easy it is, but thats the whole *point* of a development team.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you do think it's 'quite lame' that they can't change the baseline animation code just so you can have a walk that looks right on your character? (No, I don't know that's what's required either, but I suspect if something like that wasn't required, we would have had walking by now.)

I want walking just as much as you, maybe more, I dunno. However, I'm not going to put my name to a thread that demands that NCNC stop what they're doing and go all out to get a walk animation functioning on PCs.

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1. No, I dont know. Im not psychic. (Around here, Im glad of that )

Im not going to rage about it because, although Id love it in game, I do appreciate the fact that its when and if the designers get round to doing it. Im just voicing the opinion that, of all the things they can do, something like this *shouldnt* be/ might not be a really big challange. Who knows, maybe its like trying to get a straight answer out of a Politician

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You don't need to be psychic to know that Ravenswing is an experienced programmer: he knows how hard apparently simple things can be.

And you don't need to be a genius to figure out that if a feature is frequently requested, but hasn't been implemented, then there is a good chance that is because it is not a simple as you think it is.

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I really should do something about this signature.

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he knows how hard apparently simple things can be.

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That made me giggle, and I could do with a giggle.

That has to be the best summation of what an experienced programmer is - EVER!

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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

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he knows how hard apparently simple things can be.

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That made me giggle, and I could do with a giggle.

That has to be the best summation of what an experienced programmer is - EVER!

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Ain't that the truth! Never done animations but the fun you can have with a customer who suddenly says: Hmm, wouldn't it be neat if....... when you are about ready to go Beta with your program. Fun fun fun and sleepless nights when the account manager thinks that whatever the customer wants he should get.

Of course:

It would be neat if we got a walk mode!

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You don't need to be psychic to know that Ravenswing is an experienced programmer: he knows how hard apparently simple things can be.

And you don't need to be a genius to figure out that if a feature is frequently requested, but hasn't been implemented, then there is a good chance that is because it is not a simple as you think it is.

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I dont need to be either to notice that a lot of his stuff sounds rather arrogant, if not downright rude at times too I dont pretend to be all knowing about stuff. Im merely stating an opinion. To get a load of grief back isn't a very joysome exerience.

But hey. That is, after all, an opinion. I could be barking up completely the wrong tree. And the above isnt meant to be offensive, its just an observation. If it sounds otherwise, blame the stinking illness I have right now Merry Christmas...

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He isn't arrogant, he just knows what he is talking about.

You are arrogant, in assuming you understand better than the developers, and the experienced programmers on this forum, what would be required in making a walk animation.

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I really should do something about this signature.

being a hobby animator my self, i know how easy it is.
i can't say the same thing about coding it, but the animation is cake.

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being a hobby animator my self, i know how easy it is.
i can't say the same thing about coding it, but the animation is cake.

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Plus... it exists!

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I am getting curious now. How is the animation of the running models? Does that differ per individual character model or is it always basicly the same?

I am wondering how much more difficult would it be to make a walking toon whoms leglength can be altered instead of a running one?

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He isn't arrogant, he just knows what he is talking about.

You are arrogant, in assuming you understand better than the developers, and the experienced programmers on this forum, what would be required in making a walk animation.

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Hardly. As I say, and in fact said, all of it was Opinion. I don't know as cold hard fact. If I did, I wouldnt need an opinion on it.

If anyone would care to explain how hard/easy it is, please feel free. I want to go into animation after all =P

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[ QUOTE ]
I am getting curious now. How is the animation of the running models? Does that differ per individual character model or is it always basicly the same?

I am wondering how much more difficult would it be to make a walking toon whoms leglength can be altered instead of a running one?

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I think its basically the same that's why tiny characters seem to run faster than huge characters but are in fact traveling at the same speed

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[ QUOTE ]
I am getting curious now. How is the animation of the running models? Does that differ per individual character model or is it always basicly the same?

I am wondering how much more difficult would it be to make a walking toon whoms leglength can be altered instead of a running one?

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for AFAIK, the leg length doesn't have to make a difference, it's how NCsoft/cryptic designed the engine to work.
but in all honesty, they only have one animation, and it's running faster when you lower the length and slows down when you stretch the length.
so all i can say is, how do you think they should do this?
with just holding the shift, or have it as a bind toggle thing?

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for AFAIK, the leg length doesn't have to make a difference, it's how NCsoft/cryptic designed the engine to work.

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You are absolutely right that it doesn't have to make a difference, but not that it's 'how they designed the engine.'

If you use the same basic animation for walking on a 4-foot model and an eight-foot model, it would look like one (or both) were moonwalking. To make it look right, you need to take the length of the legs into account. It isn't uncommon for height not to be considered for walking animations, but it does look odd even in LotRO where the height differences are pretty small. With the variation available in CoX, it would start looking stupid.

Running is pretty much entirely different, or at least, the difference is slight enough that it isn't as noticeable. It's all down to the kinematics of movement, and different stride types. Anyone with horse riding experience should know what different stride types do.

As for how it should be achived, I'd do it as a power, like Sprint. If you want it on a key you can always bind it yourself.

But that, as they say, is likely to be a long way down the road.

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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

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if not downright rude at times too

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Well, that's your opinion. I was simply giving my opinion, which is fairly well educated, but an opinion nonetheless.

My opinion is also that calling the development team 'lame' is a direct insult, no matter how many cheeky little smilies you glue on it. So please quit with the name calling.

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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

[ QUOTE ]
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for AFAIK, the leg length doesn't have to make a difference, it's how NCsoft/cryptic designed the engine to work.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are absolutely right that it doesn't have to make a difference, but not that it's 'how they designed the engine.'

If you use the same basic animation for walking on a 4-foot model and an eight-foot model, it would look like one (or both) were moonwalking. To make it look right, you need to take the length of the legs into account. It isn't uncommon for height not to be considered for walking animations, but it does look odd even in LotRO where the height differences are pretty small. With the variation available in CoX, it would start looking stupid.

Running is pretty much entirely different, or at least, the difference is slight enough that it isn't as noticeable. It's all down to the kinematics of movement, and different stride types. Anyone with horse riding experience should know what different stride types do.

As for how it should be achived, I'd do it as a power, like Sprint. If you want it on a key you can always bind it yourself.

But that, as they say, is likely to be a long way down the road.

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Ok so how does it work in something like Second Life where you have models of different heights, with variable leg lengths and then the additional complication of an AO (Animation Overide)? The Walk looks ok there... well the base walk is a bit poo but that's to encourage you to find an improvement I suspect.

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well the base walk is a bit poo but that's to encourage you to find an improvement I suspect.

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I rest my case?

AFAIK, animations are generally seperate 'code' which is attached to a skeleton. It's certainly not impossible for a given engine to provide the facility to supply the animation code with dimensions, and then for the code to be complex enough to allow timing to be changed dynamically based on those dimensions.

However, there is no evidence that the CoX engine currently has that capability, and adding it would likely be relatively complex, and certainly more resource hungry.

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Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

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well the base walk is a bit poo but that's to encourage you to find an improvement I suspect.

[/ QUOTE ]

I rest my case?

AFAIK, animations are generally seperate 'code' which is attached to a skeleton. It's certainly not impossible for a given engine to provide the facility to supply the animation code with dimensions, and then for the code to be complex enough to allow timing to be changed dynamically based on those dimensions.

However, there is no evidence that the CoX engine currently has that capability, and adding it would likely be relatively complex, and certainly more resource hungry.

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I doubt it because it's less moonwalk and more duck-waddle. It's designed to encourage consumerism and adding an animation seems to be a (relatively - ie anyone who is interested in learning about animation can develop a new walk) simple task

I've seen the walk emote in action in CoX and it wasn't half bad. My guess is the code exists in game in a similar way to the way the "huge female" is said to exist in the game. It looked great although I only saw the animation with no forward propulsion, and I accept the timing might be awkward to achieve to look reasonable.

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