When I think of a Knight whirling a Mace I come up with the picture of the opponent(s) getting knocked down/up/back by it and landing on the ground stuned. You already got those secondary effects on it.
The only problem with Axe and Mace is that S/L damage is quite resisted later on. Other than that, both sets are fine. Ice Melee is still the less balanced set imo.
@False Fiction - Virtue / Defiant
Current projects - [Glaciologist - Ill/Cold Troller] [Cloudshaper - Storm/Dark Def] [Harald Wartooth - Elec/Psi Domi]
My thought was that the debuff would go some way to reducing the S/L resistance problem.
I don't think all secondary sets are meant for damage output only. Axe, Stone and Mace got decent damage paired with very nice damage mitigation. Ice is the most defencive set (little damage, loads of control), Fire the best for AoE, Energy the best ST (even if late bloomer) and Super Strenght the best overall.
That's how I see things. Each set with its goods and bads. Anyway, I'm not saying I wouldn't love to see Mace and Axe getting buffed. I just don't think it will happen.
@False Fiction - Virtue / Defiant
Current projects - [Glaciologist - Ill/Cold Troller] [Cloudshaper - Storm/Dark Def] [Harald Wartooth - Elec/Psi Domi]
They could just for mace and axe remove the draw times on the ST attacks and add the draw period to the recharge period. Increase the time before all weapons get put away by themselves and change the powers that pointlessly require weapons to be put away. Then give Mace and Axe to Brutes whom they are more conceptually suited for. Mace lacks a wow factor thats for sure but having looked into the numbers I don't find mace gimped or better still as gimped as people say.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Agreeance with the above.
Brutes do lack somewhat in the melée weapon area. Granted they now have Dual Blades, but it'd be nice to see axes and broadswords on the red guys/gals. Especially with the saracen scimitar for BS... *drools*
[ QUOTE ]
They could just for mace and axe remove the draw times on the ST attacks and add the draw period to the recharge period. Increase the time before all weapons get put away by themselves and change the powers that pointlessly require weapons to be put away. Then give Mace and Axe to Brutes whom they are more conceptually suited for. Mace lacks a wow factor thats for sure but having looked into the numbers I don't find mace gimped or better still as gimped as people say.
[/ QUOTE ]
I been poundering on that for ages now, why not leave the weapon on permanent, 1 quickkey to remove it (/e drawweapon or something - although some dont like the game, TR has this feature 
). Although i'm pretty used to the little redraw issues, my AR getting pretty stupid, since /ice BU removes the weapon again. Thanks that guy above this doesnt happen with mace/axe.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
They could just for mace and axe remove the draw times on the ST attacks and add the draw period to the recharge period. Increase the time before all weapons get put away by themselves and change the powers that pointlessly require weapons to be put away.
[/ QUOTE ]
Problem is, this would require rather a lot of animation work. What do you mean " add the draw period to the recharge"? Make the draw instant and slow the recharge? Weapon redraw is an awe-inspiring pain, have to admit; can't see myself revisiting my AR characters even if they get shiny looking weapons.
[ QUOTE ]
Then give Mace and Axe to Brutes whom they are more conceptually suited for.
[/ QUOTE ]
Totally agree with this 
Animation work.. they took alot of time in the new dual blades too, why not spend some time on exsisting sets then too? Mace is 1 of the, if not the, least used sets among tankers, even ice i have seen more often. Axe i see more often, i've tested them both as axe has a bit more balance then mace (and i really miss the overhead smash animation on mace, axe has it).
My axe is stuck at 37 now, i face quite alot of mobs now havnig really alot SL resist (drones, alot council, CoT ghosts, freak tanks) and redraw is driving me crazy. Specialy with Epic comming up, each power makes your weapon dissapear again..
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They could just for mace and axe remove the draw times on the ST attacks and add the draw period to the recharge period. Increase the time before all weapons get put away by themselves and change the powers that pointlessly require weapons to be put away.
[/ QUOTE ]
Problem is, this would require rather a lot of animation work. What do you mean " add the draw period to the recharge"? Make the draw instant and slow the recharge? Weapon redraw is an awe-inspiring pain, have to admit; can't see myself revisiting my AR characters even if they get shiny looking weapons.
[/ QUOTE ]
As of now, when weapon is drawn, cast time is say 5 seconds. When you don't have it drawn, it first draws the weapon, then reduces that time from the cast time.
On dual blades, they made the draw a separate animation, so if you have to redraw it takes longer time to attack, but if you already have it drawn it goes quite a bit faster. The latter is better IMHO.
1 nice way to test, katana/regen.
Do in followed order:
Brawl, Slice, Sand of Mu, Buildup, heal, golden dragonfly.
Now again:
brawl, Sand of Mu, Heal, Buildup, Slice, Dragonfly.
I know, not the most efficient chains, but you get the point
Its amazing how much time between these 2 chains are, only due redraw. Redraw does indeed reduce casting time on long casting, but most powers with 1sec casting still last 2 sec (you cant slice if you dont have your weapon ready).
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
1 nice way to test, katana/regen.
Do in followed order:
Brawl, Slice, Sand of Mu, Buildup, heal, golden dragonfly.
Now again:
brawl, Sand of Mu, Heal, Buildup, Slice, Dragonfly.
I know, not the most efficient chains, but you get the point
Its amazing how much time between these 2 chains are, only due redraw. Redraw does indeed reduce casting time on long casting, but most powers with 1sec casting still last 2 sec (you cant slice if you dont have your weapon ready).
[/ QUOTE ]
Redrawing your weapon does NOT increase cast time more than when if it had been drawn.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1 nice way to test, katana/regen.
Do in followed order:
Brawl, Slice, Sand of Mu, Buildup, heal, golden dragonfly.
Now again:
brawl, Sand of Mu, Heal, Buildup, Slice, Dragonfly.
I know, not the most efficient chains, but you get the point
Its amazing how much time between these 2 chains are, only due redraw. Redraw does indeed reduce casting time on long casting, but most powers with 1sec casting still last 2 sec (you cant slice if you dont have your weapon ready).
[/ QUOTE ]
Redrawing your weapon does NOT increase cast time more than when if it had been drawn.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mace animation times are still horrible compared to their effect.
Also, I could swear that statement does NOT hold true for mace. I just tested with Shatter.. Animation appears EXACTLY the same with or without redraw.
The animation would appear the same. There are dummies in the Vanguard place. Start an attack chain (the longer the better) inclusive of a redraw start. At the end of the chain check the time. Then repeat the exact attack chain without the redraw start so following on. Check the time. They should be the same. A subtle possible boost to Mace could be, upon removing redraw time from all weapon attacks of every set and adding it to the recharge times leave maces recharge time the same.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1 nice way to test, katana/regen.
Do in followed order:
Brawl, Slice, Sand of Mu, Buildup, heal, golden dragonfly.
Now again:
brawl, Sand of Mu, Heal, Buildup, Slice, Dragonfly.
I know, not the most efficient chains, but you get the point
Its amazing how much time between these 2 chains are, only due redraw. Redraw does indeed reduce casting time on long casting, but most powers with 1sec casting still last 2 sec (you cant slice if you dont have your weapon ready).
[/ QUOTE ]
Redrawing your weapon does NOT increase cast time more than when if it had been drawn.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mace animation times are still horrible compared to their effect.
Also, I could swear that statement does NOT hold true for mace. I just tested with Shatter.. Animation appears EXACTLY the same with or without redraw.
[/ QUOTE ]
BaB posted on this recently.
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
I just read that this very minute. He had I think said before that all weapons have a redraw time to them. They have obviously got to recheck.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I was trying to get a Fraps movie recorded, but somehow i keep getting black recordings.
I will just go use a stopwatch then, need 2 bars to 35 to test in RWZ.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
You know, Im only posting out of habit. I stopped playing my tanker ages ago, pretty much since Devs ravaged the fun I got from playing it, indirectly though, by ED. ED was not wrong decision, but it made mace just plain ugly. Without few exceptions like when my friends need a tank or something I havent played Hammer for fun for.. I dont know how long.
Not sure how many of you have spotted this next BaB post in the thread which Ohm's linked to...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everything was pretty much as short as it could be, but I managed to shave off a tenths or hundredths of a second here and there and greatly reduce Jawbreaker's attack time. The set feels a lot more fluid now and I think you guys will be happy to see it in action.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm a little unclear on this... does that mean that you shaved some time off of Jawbreaker's animation time alone, or all of the powers? Because the rest of your wording seems to imply there were changes made to all the powers to make the set more fluid.
[/ QUOTE ]
All of the powers. Jawbreaker just got the shortened by a lot more than everything else. There's no delay between attacks now because of attack times which makes the set feel very fluid and a lot faster. That's true until you start mixing in powers outside of Wace, which take you out of mace combat mode and require you to redraw the weapon to get back into it.
[ QUOTE ]
And I wanted to check on that, as I do think there were changes needed elsewhere, as feeding in brawl, etc. at lower levels is really awkward at times (in addition to the long pause after Jawbreaker's damage lands and you're just standing, etc.). The chain from bash to pulverize to jawbreaker works well, but if you switch things up in that chain, things get clunky. Given that I recently started an /Energy tanker at the same time as my Mace, it's really noticeable. /Energy is very fluid and mows throw enemies much faster than my Macer.
I do want to say thanks for the work and attention! It makes a great game even better, so keep working on things!
[/ QUOTE ]
Weapon draws are just something we can't do anything about. You can either look at it as having a faster attack chain for stringing together weapon attacks or you can look at it as having a penalty for incorporating non-weapon attacks into your chain. Glass half full or half empty. This is why weapon powersets were designed with other little bonuses, such as a higher accuracy modifier, to offset weapon draw times.
Does this mean this is the only attention mace will get? No, but it's pretty much all I can do from my end and it would be up to Castle to decide if the powers themselves need to be looked at to improve the set further.
[/ QUOTE ]
How i always hate those empty 'we cba to fix it' replies.
(/points at hasten, secondair blaster BU, reconstruction, punch vs kick, etc etc etc)
And what is the exact 'bonus' on Mace and Axe? Dont believe they have any higher base acc isit?
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
How i always hate those empty 'we cba to fix it' replies.
(/points at hasten, secondair blaster BU, reconstruction, punch vs kick, etc etc etc)
And what is the exact 'bonus' on Mace and Axe? Dont believe they have any higher base acc isit?
[/ QUOTE ]Mace and Axe have the heightened weapojn accuracy (1.05 base) for all attacks. However, all the other tank sets get 1.2 base acc for their heaviet attacks, so it's not that much balancing out, especially after the low levels.
Hm, 1.05.. not very noticable at later lvl i gues.
Added that its all SL dmg, although SS has equal but can compensate greatly by Rage.
I always have serious issues fighting council (or sortlike), due their very high resist to SL.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1 nice way to test, katana/regen.
Do in followed order:
Brawl, Slice, Sand of Mu, Buildup, heal, golden dragonfly.
Now again:
brawl, Sand of Mu, Heal, Buildup, Slice, Dragonfly.
I know, not the most efficient chains, but you get the point
Its amazing how much time between these 2 chains are, only due redraw. Redraw does indeed reduce casting time on long casting, but most powers with 1sec casting still last 2 sec (you cant slice if you dont have your weapon ready).
[/ QUOTE ]
Redrawing your weapon does NOT increase cast time more than when if it had been drawn.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mace animation times are still horrible compared to their effect.
Also, I could swear that statement does NOT hold true for mace. I just tested with Shatter.. Animation appears EXACTLY the same with or without redraw.
[/ QUOTE ]
BaB posted on this recently.
[/ QUOTE ]
I stand corrected. 
Never had much trouble with council on my /Axe, except for the Meks.
Never really troubles, but it slows down alot if you solo. A BU and pop a red they still go down, just slower
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
I was just thinking: a mace is a heavy, slow weapon. Historically, it was used to smash through the armour of knights etc.
How about mace being modified to be something along those lines?
I was thinking slow, quite damaging attacks with a resistance or defence debuff, complemented by faster attacks with stuns. This might, y'know, make mace a viable choice for a tank. Might also make it worthwhile beating an AV rather than just taunting him/her/it
Wrong board, but this would also be great for brutes, except the debuffs would make them tank killers. So shh.
Any thoughts?