Beginner's Guide?


Alvan

 

Posted

* If possible use a breakfree proactively and not retroactively.

* If doing a respec see if you can fit the right powers in before the zone caps (25, 30, 38).

* The one doing the damage to you isn't necessarily your problem. Take out the buffer/debuffer as Cel was saying.

* AoEs are generally not very good in PvP (there are of course exceptions to this rule).

(all I can think of atm that hasnt already been said)


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Posted

Since someone asked, I put this build together last night on Test, but then couldn't make it in for the Arena matches. (RL can be a pain.)

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: War Crow PvP4
Level: 50
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary: Katana
Secondary: Regeneration
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sting of the Wasp==> Acc(1)Acc(3)Rechg(3)Dmg(5)Dmg(5)Dmg(7)
01) --> Fast Healing==> Heal(1)Heal(7)Heal(9)
02) --> Reconstruction==> Heal(2)Heal(9)Heal(11)Rechg(11)Rechg(13)
04) --> Quick Recovery==> EndMod(4)EndMod(13)EndMod(15)
06) --> Hasten==> Rechg(6)Rechg(15)Rechg(17)
08) --> Divine Avalanche==> Acc(8)Acc(17)Rechg(19)DefBuf(19)DefBuf(21)DefBuf(21)
10) --> Dull Pain==> Heal(10)Heal(23)Heal(23)Rechg(25)Rechg(25)Rechg(27)
12) --> Build Up==> TH_Buf(12)TH_Buf(27)TH_Buf(29)Rechg(29)Rechg(31)Rechg(31)
14) --> Super Speed==> Run(14)
16) --> Integration==> Heal(16)Heal(31)Heal(33)
18) --> The Lotus Drops==> Acc(18)Acc(33)Acc(33)Rechg(34)Dmg(34)Dmg(34)
20) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(20)Jump(50)
22) --> Super Jump==> Jump(22)
24) --> Hurdle==> Jump(24)Jump(46)
26) --> Soaring Dragon==> Acc(26)Acc(36)Rechg(36)Dmg(36)Dmg(37)Dmg(37)
28) --> Instant Healing==> Heal(28)Heal(37)Heal(39)Rechg(39)Rechg(39)Rechg(40)
30) --> Health==> Heal(30)
32) --> Golden Dragonfly==> Acc(32)Acc(40)Rechg(40)Dmg(42)Dmg(42)Dmg(42)
35) --> Stamina==> EndMod(35)
38) --> Boxing==> Acc(38)
41) --> Tough==> DmgRes(41)DmgRes(43)DmgRes(43)EndRdx(43)
44) --> Focused Accuracy==> TH_Buf(44)TH_Buf(45)TH_Buf(45)Rechg(45)Rechg(46)Rechg(46)
47) --> Laser Beam Eyes==> Acc(47)Acc(48)Rechg(48)Dmg(48)Dmg(50)Dmg(50)
49) --> Resilience==> DmgRes(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Power Slide==> Empty(1)
01) --> Power Quick==> Empty(1)
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
01) --> Critical Hit==> Empty(1)
---------------------------------------------


Bare in mind that it's a level 50 respec, so the levels the slots are allocated at are irrelevent.


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

Posted

tough is not needed


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
tough is not needed

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats my thoughts.. but then I couldnt think of what else to put there ^^

Anyway Id get the last recharge on reconstruction from somewhere..


 

Posted

lotus drop isnt needed. argh im to tired to look at slotting and [censored].


 

Posted

I didn't say you had to look at it then and there!

Lotus Drops is there for Stalkers and badge hunting.
Tough is there because I don't spend all my time PvPing, same with Resilience.


PS. Got to admit, I don't like this build. Just doesn't feel right.


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

Posted

Well to use regen scrapper in PVP, in addition to everything else said before, you have to concscious about your health bar and keep fingers on the heal buttons. This simple thing will increase your survivability tremendously. Its also easier said than done DP+IH is a nice little god-mode, but most of the time your survival is down to just reconstruction and DP. Combining good selfheals with good movement, you become very hard to kill in normal combat. (in most cases, the hardest of the scrappers). Movement means: usually if the opponent is willing to duke it out at close range, they are either inexperienced in PVP or have good reason for being in close range in which case you shouldnt maybe be there.

Also don't go overestimating your mez protection. There will be controllers and dominators to show you that integration is just a word.

Debuffers will be your worst enemy. You already experienced slows. Learn which powersets can debuff your recharge (making reconstruction recharge slower), regen rate and heals. Try to avoid said enemies when possible or at least attack them first.

Bottom line is: Scrapper is good and durable all-around character in PVP, but you always have to remember your limits and your strengths. Regen's strength is fast selfheal, dull pain, and occasional IH. Even with IH, be careful if you are debuffed and keep looking at your HP bar.

Team up and have fun!


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Since someone asked, I put this build together last night on Test, but then couldn't make it in for the Arena matches. (RL can be a pain.)

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: War Crow PvP4
Level: 50
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary: Katana
Secondary: Regeneration
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sting of the Wasp==> Acc(1)Acc(3)Rechg(3)Dmg(5)Dmg(5)Dmg(7)
01) --> Fast Healing==> Heal(1)Heal(7)Heal(9)
02) --> Reconstruction==> Heal(2)Heal(9)Heal(11)Rechg(11)Rechg(13)
04) --> Quick Recovery==> EndMod(4)EndMod(13)EndMod(15)
06) --> Hasten==> Rechg(6)Rechg(15)Rechg(17)
08) --> Divine Avalanche==> Acc(8)Acc(17)Rechg(19)DefBuf(19)DefBuf(21)DefBuf(21)
10) --> Dull Pain==> Heal(10)Heal(23)Heal(23)Rechg(25)Rechg(25)Rechg(27)
12) --> Build Up==> TH_Buf(12)TH_Buf(27)TH_Buf(29)Rechg(29)Rechg(31)Rechg(31)
14) --> Super Speed==> Run(14)
16) --> Integration==> Heal(16)Heal(31)Heal(33)
18) --> The Lotus Drops==> Acc(18)Acc(33)Acc(33)Rechg(34)Dmg(34)Dmg(34)
20) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(20)Jump(50)
22) --> Super Jump==> Jump(22)
24) --> Hurdle==> Jump(24)Jump(46)
26) --> Soaring Dragon==> Acc(26)Acc(36)Rechg(36)Dmg(36)Dmg(37)Dmg(37)
28) --> Instant Healing==> Heal(28)Heal(37)Heal(39)Rechg(39)Rechg(39)Rechg(40)
30) --> Health==> Heal(30)
32) --> Golden Dragonfly==> Acc(32)Acc(40)Rechg(40)Dmg(42)Dmg(42)Dmg(42)
35) --> Stamina==> EndMod(35)
38) --> Boxing==> Acc(38)
41) --> Tough==> DmgRes(41)DmgRes(43)DmgRes(43)EndRdx(43)
44) --> Focused Accuracy==> TH_Buf(44)TH_Buf(45)TH_Buf(45)Rechg(45)Rechg(46)Rechg(46)
47) --> Laser Beam Eyes==> Acc(47)Acc(48)Rechg(48)Dmg(48)Dmg(50)Dmg(50)
49) --> Resilience==> DmgRes(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Power Slide==> Empty(1)
01) --> Power Quick==> Empty(1)
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
01) --> Critical Hit==> Empty(1)
---------------------------------------------


Bare in mind that it's a level 50 respec, so the levels the slots are allocated at are irrelevent.

[/ QUOTE ]
ok, where to begin ;D

first of all, as a scrapper in pvp, dont worry too much about your healing tree. Your job is to chase squishies and inflict as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time. With that in mind

- ditch fighting pool
-2 more end mods in stamina
-integration:2heals and at least 1 recharge
-take swift instead of health
-take resilience earlier
-take taunt
-if you want to build a stalker killer, take tactics too.


 

Posted

Someone doesn't listen to why I like explanations...

[ QUOTE ]
-take resilience earlier

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Disorient Resistance? It can't be for the actual damage resistance since you're having me drop Tough.

[ QUOTE ]
-if you want to build a stalker killer, take tactics too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm aiming for Stalker resistance rather than a Stalker killer. Theoretically with Hasten, I can get two shots at Lotus Drops within the wind-up for AS. That's two chances at interrupting it. It's 3 slotted for ACC, with FA on top. Even with the stupid AoE defense Stalkers have, that should give a reasonable probability of a hit.


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
but most of the time your survival is down to just reconstruction and DP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reconstruction is on button 0, DP is on 9.

You're right that monitoring my health bar will be tough. I have the HUD set up to let me do it, but I get easily distracted by all the flashing lights and pretty colours.

[ QUOTE ]
Also don't go overestimating your mez protection.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haven't done that since I got slept by an invisible illusion controller in Warburg, back when Warburg was new.

[ QUOTE ]
Debuffers will be your worst enemy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, Syn and Cel already demonstrated that.


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

I'm aiming for Stalker resistance rather than a Stalker killer. Theoretically with Hasten, I can get two shots at Lotus Drops within the wind-up for AS. That's two chances at interrupting it. It's 3 slotted for ACC, with FA on top. Even with the stupid AoE defense Stalkers have, that should give a reasonable probability of a hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have two issues, first I'm a bit confused by Andy's advice, second is that stalker avoidance is always better plan than stalker resistance .

You may be able to survive stalker attack chain starting with AS if you have DP running and have finger constantly on reconstruct button, but what if there are two stalkers? Or a EM stalker will jump out of the woodwork while DP is not running and show why planning to survive stalker attack is a bad idea..
Better plans are:
1.) get perception buffed so that you can see most stalkers (stalkers at stealth cap will be seen only at very close range, but hopefully you can still interrupt them) and attack first. Doesnt matter if you attack them with mutagen or something because you just need to drop them off hide, so they wont get the crit.

2.) Jump around constantly so that stalkers cant get the attack off (or at least two stalkers at once) so they instead go after easier targets or do something otherwise stupid, showing themselves and allowing you to attack them.
Jumping around in random pattern with superjump is the best stalker defense there is . I have won duels against stalkers in arena with my blaster (who doesnt have any +percep) using JUST this tactic.


About andy's advice, I fail to see much use for tactics myself, since it wont be enough in itself for the scrapper to count as stalker killer, you need some other +percep power as well. And if youre counting on external buffs, theres little reason to take tactics unless you regularly team with people who ALSO have tactics. CM from empaths will stack anyway putting you to percep cap.

Only reason resilience is needed for PVP regens is indeed the disorient protection. I wonder if Andy is thinking about the amount of EM stalkers in sirens with their stackable stuns?

Taunt is an ok power to take if you dont know what to take. It just needs to be 2-slotted with accuracy to be of any use in PVP . Andy's advice seems to be geared toward team pvp.


 

Posted

If you want to kill stalkers, wait for them to hit someone else who's dumber than you and has let themselves be hit. Once they do that, Hide is down and you can go in for the kill.

Seriously though, you shouldn't be standing still long enough to have to use Lotus Drops to interrupt AS. As long as you keep moving, it's really REALLY unlikely that you'll get AS'd, as anyone who plays a stalker will tell you. As I said earlier, practice kiting until you do it without even thinking.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
get perception buffed so that you can see most stalkers

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what FA is for. Yes, it's only useful in RV, but I'm really not planning to do much outside RV. If I need to work outside RV, then that's one more reason to be in a team with someone who has a +perception power, right?

The constant moving thing. Yeah, in an ideal world that would be great, but I'm trying to be a tiny bit practical.

[ QUOTE ]
but what if there are two stalkers?

[/ QUOTE ]

They both need to be in range of Lotus Drops to do an AS. I've noticed a couple of times when I've been able to see a close in Stalker, but not target them. Hence the AoE.

I'd imagine Andy's advice is based on having Tactics on top of FA, but I shall repeat: I am not building a Stalker killer, I am building something with Stalker defense who can also chop down huge numbers of low end mobs for badge collecting.

[ QUOTE ]
Andy's advice seems to be geared toward team pvp.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd point out that that is what is being recommended a lot.
However, Tactics on a Scrapper in a team... seems a tiny bit pointless, though I suppose the buffs would add.


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

The constant moving thing. Yeah, in an ideal world that would be great, but I'm trying to be a tiny bit practical.


[/ QUOTE ]
Err... movement is 10 times more practical than using AoE attacks.. Unless you want to chat a lot Only AOEs that are useful in stopping stalkers are AOE debuffs like chilling embrace or hurricane because they autohit interrupt AS or ones that do -stealth. Well there are caltrops etc but they wont work against everyone..

It is extremely easy for stalker to hit you between your AoE attacks.. Remember you are dealing with human players here, not mindless PvE mobs.

[ QUOTE ]

I've noticed a couple of times when I've been able to see a close in Stalker, but not target them. Hence the AoE.


[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly only time this happens is when you are under placate effect.. in which case you should be jumping to safety cause AS is on its way. Otherwise use "target closest" button a lot.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
The constant moving thing. Yeah, in an ideal world that would be great, but I'm trying to be a tiny bit practical.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I can do it on a low-spec PC and a broken keyboard with a dodgy spacebar that sometimes doesn't work, you can almost certainly do it on yours. It's not actually that hard, and once you start doing it it just becomes second nature. It's gotten to the point where I'll do it in PvE now as well.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Only AOEs that are useful in stopping stalkers are AOE debuffs like chilling embrace or hurricane because they autohit interrupt AS

[/ QUOTE ]
Since I7, debuffs (like CE) don't interrupt AS. Only powers with damage (e.g. Hot Feet) or movement effects (like Hurricane's repel) do.


CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Only AOEs that are useful in stopping stalkers are AOE debuffs like chilling embrace or hurricane because they autohit interrupt AS

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope...sorry Hammer....they changed this. You have to do damage to drop hide...debuffs won't do it on their own anymore. One of the big reasons you rarely see stormies in the zones anymore.

EDIT: Bah! dammit Okt and your post-fu!


SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"

 

Posted

Using AoE attacks to reveal stalkers is bad imo. They have higher defence when hidden and you need to hit them. Even if you can see them once you use the AoE you are open to attack from another Stalker. The only good AoE powers that stop stalkers are ones that are always on such as hurricane and you can't get that. Jumping like you are on a pogo stick is the only way to go


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly only time this happens is when you are under placate effect.. in which case you should be jumping to safety cause AS is on its way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is fine if he hasn't already started the attack. If he has, then no amount of running jumping, flying, teleporting, or dropping through a hole into Hell is going to stop it landing. You have to make them move, or hit them, and I don't have those other powers you mentioned.


To Stryker: [ QUOTE ]
Using AoE attacks to reveal stalkers is bad imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably, but then, I don't happen to plan to use my AoE for that purpose. (For the third time.)


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

Posted

Sorry I meant - Using AoE attacks to interrupt a stalker ASing you into your next life is a bad idea imo.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry I meant - Using AoE attacks to interrupt a stalker ASing you into your next life is a bad idea imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of interest, if you can't target him and he's already started the AS, what would you do? Baring in mind that you are a kat/regen Scrapper at the time.


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

Posted

I'd start running with my finger on the button for heal. If i was already damaged, i'd heal to full health before he hit and have a back up heal ready. Whilst running. If i was confident i could do some damage back and he was alone i'd stick around but keep my distance till i was healed. By that time he'd have ran though. Best option is not let your self be AS by jumping around like your hyperactive.


 

Posted

Fair enough.

However, it stays since it has another purpose. Thus far, the suggestions have been to take one power earlier, and dump a load of other ones. I might as well not be a level 50, I don't need half the powers I picked. Getting rid of a useful one seems... wasteful.

Similarly, Tough could stay, perhaps gained later.

Has anyone seen anything I'm actually missing?


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

Since I7, debuffs (like CE) don't interrupt AS. Only powers with damage (e.g. Hot Feet) or movement effects (like Hurricane's repel) do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Errr I could swear that something that the Ice tanker does, interrupts AS very efficiently without dropping me out of hide..I know cause ive been in Sirens trying to AS ice tankers... I remember the change but I guess we need to experiment so that nothing is bugged or anything..


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Since I7, debuffs (like CE) don't interrupt AS. Only powers with damage (e.g. Hot Feet) or movement effects (like Hurricane's repel) do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Errr I could swear that something that the Ice tanker does, interrupts AS very efficiently without dropping me out of hide..I know cause ive been in Sirens trying to AS ice tankers... I remember the change but I guess we need to experiment so that nothing is bugged or anything..

[/ QUOTE ]
Icicles perhaps?


CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>