Thugs/Dark and Leadership

Heyas!

I'm leveling a Thug/Dark right now and I'm getting a bit confused. Enforcers use Leadership powers, but I've heard they don't stack with mine. Besides, Dark is an end heavy set, and Shadow Fall already gives my Pets Fear Resistance (but not +Percetion, etc).

Could anyone explain to me how this pool works with Enforcers and if it's worth?

A player's leadership pool differs from that of an enforcer's leadership in several ways.

The player's leadership pool affects all your teammates, all your pets, and all your teammates' pets.

The enforcer's leadership powers affects all your other thugs as well as himself, and any other thug masterminds' pets on your team. It won't affect any other type of mastermind pets, or other players, or yourself. Bear in mind that as you'll get two enforcers, you'll get stacked leadership icons on your thugs.

At the very least, you could probably get assault from the leadership pool. But if you don't have stamina in your build, it might not be worthwhile getting tactics as well unless you end redux virtually everything, especially heavy end toggles, due to /dark build.

With /Dark, you have far better powers to take.

I'm currently considering the same sort of build, a Thugs/Dark with Leadership pool as this would appear to capitalise on the strengths of the Thugs primary. Are the Leadership powers really not worth taking? I'm probably going to be giving up my Pistol attacks to get them so I'd be interested to know the comparative benefits. I always figured I'd be too busy with the /Dark support to be able to contribute much in terms of damage. Is this true?

Btw, while we're here, Thugs seem to be described as having no resistances to anything, is this a problem? What do they excel in?

As always, thanks.

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Btw, while we're here, Thugs seem to be described as having no resistances to anything, is this a problem?

[/ QUOTE ]Not really, since double maneuvers from enforcers gives them nice +def.

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With /Dark, you have far better powers to take.

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I'm not taking the Pistols attacks, I wanna have support powers and let the Pets do the damage. In my build, the only powers I'm not taking from DM are Petrifying Gaze and Black Hole.

Right now, I think getting PG and the GW Patron Power all the way to Soul Storm will give me good single target control. Add Fluffy's Holds and I may be able to perma hold a boss and help others hold AVs.

So if you have assault (+11% damage) and your 2 enforcers have stacked assault that means your thugs get 33% extra damage?

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So if you have assault (+11% damage) and your 2 enforcers have stacked assault that means your thugs get 33% extra damage?

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The Leadership powers from Enforcers have different numbers than the player versions.

Enforcer Maneuvers is much better than the player version, but for Assault and Tactics it is the other way around.

so what is the total +dmg stacked then? ANyone know?

Thugs Enforcers's Assault is a total of 10% and a Mastermind can buff 11% from the Leadership Pool.

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I'm currently considering the same sort of build, a Thugs/Dark with Leadership pool as this would appear to capitalise on the strengths of the Thugs primary. Are the Leadership powers really not worth taking? I'm probably going to be giving up my Pistol attacks to get them so I'd be interested to know the comparative benefits. I always figured I'd be too busy with the /Dark support to be able to contribute much in terms of damage. Is this true?

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Dark Rose Tara is a Thugs MM and you didnt introduce her to the Gang? *heartbroken*

I really suck at playing a */Dark, I'm too used to Force Fields, but I can at least advice you about Leadership Buffs.

Alot of people presume that adding to the Enforcers Leadership buffs would be benefitial... and it is. Especially when you include Supremacy into the equation.

2x Enforcers Maneuvers = 24% (enhanced)
2x Enforcers with MM's Maneuvers = 27% (enhanced)
6x Enforcers with 3x MM's Maneuvers = 80% (enhanced)

2x Enforcers Assault = 10%
2x Enforcers with MM's Assault = 21%
2x Enforcers with MM's Assault & Supremacy = 36%
6x Enforcers with MM's Assault & Supremacy = 79%

2x Enforcers Tactics = 5%
2x Enforcers with MM's Tactics = 17% (enhanced)
2x Enforcers with MM's Tactics & Supremacy = 32% (enhanced)
6x Enforcers with 3x MM's Tactics & Supremacy = 66% (enhanced)

So if you want more Leadership Buffs go for it mate. (Pistol wont be going down that route anytime soon though. I prefer investing on Force Fields and Medicines).

One advantage the figures above highlights is that when you have three or more Thugs MM's marching through a map in a tight crowd, you're pretty much in GodMode.

Pistol, you talk too much. If we get nerf'd I am going to smack you. Very hard.

Oh did I say.. Well what I meant was.. er.. that it is a good thing that members of similar Powersets have a balanced advantage which er.. gives reason for Thugs MM's to come together and team more often, er thus.. making the game more balanced!

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Dark Rose Tara is a Thugs MM and you didnt introduce her to the Gang? *heartbroken*

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No, she's Necro/Dark but let's just say that fighting the New Mafia in Siren's has made me want to try a Thugs MM. I considered a FF secondary but after trying it on test I found it too 'hands off'. I prefer the involvement on /Dark. I've tried all of the MM secondaries at some point and /Dark still feels the 'strongest' to me in terms of team and solo support (personal opinion only).

Pistols, I think you forgot that the Enforcers' Leadership values you posted were just for one of them. You have to multiply them by 2. Or am I wrong?

Anyway, thanks for your opinions. Now I'm leaning towards the Leadership Pool

1x Enforcers Maneuvers = 12% (enhanced)
2x Enforcers Maneuvers = 24% (enhanced)
6x Enforcers Maneuvers = 72% (enhanced)

etc. I neither forgot nor miscalculated, and the name is Pistol not Pistols.

Sorry Pistol(s) hehe

I got the numbers from the Hero Builder. Where did you get yours?

No problem mate, do it again however and you'll be sleeping with the fishes. Pages from the Prima CoX Guide.

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Pages from the Prima CoX Guide.

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Which uses numbers provided by the devs (iow: About as accurate as you'll ever see).

Well,the prima guide is okay numberwise,but has quite a few errors.
The best source is currently City of Data - a few rounding errors and typos and pool/epic powers are all listed with Blaster AT modifiers (i.e. you have to look up the modifiers for other ATs in Iakona's Thread),but the vast majority of the numbers should be accurate for I7.
Presumably a source inside Cryptic Studios leaked the dev spreadsheet to Iakona and RedTomax,but was told to not do it again for I8.

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Pages from the Prima CoX Guide.

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Which uses numbers provided by the devs (iow: About as accurate as you'll ever see).

[/ QUOTE ]Prima guide has far too many errors to be trusted as an accurate source for numbers.

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Pages from the Prima CoX Guide.

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Which uses numbers provided by the devs (iow: About as accurate as you'll ever see).

[/ QUOTE ]Prima guide has far too many errors to be trusted as an accurate source for numbers.

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The devs claimed the numbers in the I7 update were accurate. In any case, I'd trust the devs over a site like nofuture.

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Pages from the Prima CoX Guide.

[/ QUOTE ]
Which uses numbers provided by the devs (iow: About as accurate as you'll ever see).

[/ QUOTE ]Prima guide has far too many errors to be trusted as an accurate source for numbers.

[/ QUOTE ]
The devs claimed the numbers in the I7 update were accurate. In any case, I'd trust the devs over a site like nofuture.

[/ QUOTE ]NoFuture data was collected directly from game files, and the I7 prima numbers were FAR from accurate.