Energy Melee


Cuffzter

 

Posted

Hey all, i have recently started an EM tank and was just wondering what powers are worth taking in the set.

I have never tried a tank before so is it much different to scrapping?

Thanks in advance.


 

Posted

TF and ET are must-have.
Energy punch and Bonesmasher are good (EP is lower damage but activates and recharges 2x faster).
Whirling hands is a standard AoE with EP's damage, it doesn't hit too far but its your only AoE option. Many skip it as they feel EM is more of a ST powerset anyway.
Stun is worthless IMHO, a 2s animation for a 100% mag3 stun (TF does extreme damage with a 100% mag4 stun), but some people like it.
Build up is, of course, build up. Always great to have.
Barrage can help at low levels but its damage/activation isn't great and I'd respec any slot I'd put in it by lvl 22/24.

Tanking can be very different than scrapping or not at all. Some people like to build the ultimate aggro-grabbing meatshield, some people just want to hit stuff with other powersets than scrappers, some people go for a balanced approach. All styles work well when played well in my experience.


 

Posted

yea ill go with that, my list would be : Barrage, Bone smasher, Whirling Hands, Build Up, Total Focus, Energy Transfer. Ive gone for barrage instead of energy punch becasue although its weaker, the recharge time is better and its less end heavy, and i always find there just that last bit of health left on the baddies bar, that i dont want to waste a powerfull attack or the associated endurance on.


 

Posted

Good point about barrage, not to mention if you're stone/energy you might want to keep it slotted so you have something to use when hasten is down, with Granite's massive -recharge.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
yea ill go with that, my list would be : Barrage, Bone smasher, Whirling Hands, Build Up, Total Focus, Energy Transfer. Ive gone for barrage instead of energy punch becasue although its weaker, the recharge time is better and its less end heavy, and i always find there just that last bit of health left on the baddies bar, that i dont want to waste a powerfull attack or the associated endurance on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, you can't opt to not take Barrage but you can skip energy punch if you're low on powers.

About Taunt. If you plan on teaming a lot and act as a meatshield, you should pick up this pretty early. If you plan on going solo, you can skip taunt.
If you plan on being balanced, you can hold of taunt to about level 30, (because at 32 you want your tier 9 primary and at 35 and 38 you must pick up Energy transfer and Total focus, then in the 40s you want to be able to pick up any ancillary powers.)
This is because in the later 30s and 40s you'll find yourself getting requests to tank against AVs and Giant Monsters and so on. Against these, Taunt is very helpful in keeping the team alive.


UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender

Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz

"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.

 

Posted

[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />
This is because in the later 30s and 40s you'll find yourself getting requests to tank against AVs and Giant Monsters and so on. Against these, Taunt is very helpful in keeping the team alive.


[/ QUOTE ]

Unless he's a fast leveler, (I hope) the patch that fix Gauntlet will be live before he's at that level.


 

Posted

The secondary power taunt always rules when it comes to AVs, they arent making gauntlet autohit and of good duration and even if they did, the secondary taunt would still rule for the flexibility of directing aoes away from team when needed and preventing some of the pbaoes from happening. I dont find team wipes an acceptable part of tanking and i dont find needing certain powersets of certain ATs a good thing.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

ok thanks all 4 the good advice, i am going for the taunt after i get stamina so am looking at lvl 22.

Im level 14 at the moment and loving it so far.


 

Posted

My Inv/En tank has just hit 40, and as such I'm the world foremost authority on tanking (stop snickering at the back there!).
My Pick of the Pops is
Barrage (coz you have to, but it fills up a chain and is good for not wasting end with overkill damage when you have to finish em off. No need to slot heavily, I have 1 acc and 2 dam)
Bone Smasher (decent damage and looks coooOOOool ) 6 slot !
Whirling hands (good for getting the attention of a crowd, lets me use taunt on remote targets and a good backuyp till they fix my aura!)
Build up(some think its optional, not me, get it and use it all the time, 3 slot with recharge and its up every other attack chain)
Taunt (lots of discussion, I think you need, need need!)
Energy Transfer(OH YES!! Sock it to me BABY! There is not a soul on earth who doesn't weep when they first witness this slotted! With build up and 2 damage you can 1shot a +3 minion. Also a short as hell animation for such a powerful attack! Just be careful, there are some fights where I can do more damage to myself than the mobs do!)
Total Focus(Despite the uber animation and the fact that it is your last power, not as cool as ET. But, I take it. With slotting this makes soloing very easy. First minion goes down to ET. Then TF, BS and Barrage takes the next one. Then one go through the attack chain will take out a lietenant(sp I know) easy peasy.
You will solo quicker than any other tank because of the ST nature of your attacks. And most bosses spend thier time shuffling about after you hit em so a little control is thrown in.
Enjoy hitting stuff, and hitting it hard!

Ditz


"Oh my God, they're coming right for us!"

 

Posted

[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />
The secondary power taunt always rules when it comes to AVs, they arent making gauntlet autohit and of good duration

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell that to my brute who perma-taunts 8 lvl 54 AVs with her aura alone.

Aura pulses every second and taunts for 13s or so base, there's no way you'll need taunt for AVs (when gauntlet will be fixed) unless you're not slotting for ACC, or you're afk (actually I had to go AFK in some AV fights, and never lost aggro, so I mean this as a "AFK at the mish ent"), or fighting a +7 AV, or something.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Tell that to my brute who perma-taunts 8 lvl 54 AVs with her aura alone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the damage you do has more to do with that than your aura.

[ QUOTE ]
Aura pulses every second and taunts for 13s or so base, there's no way you'll need taunt for AVs

[/ QUOTE ]

It all depends on team make up and level of AV.

[ QUOTE ]
(when gauntlet will be fixed) unless you're not slotting for ACC, or you're afk (actually I had to go AFK in some AV fights, and never lost aggro, so I mean this as a "AFK at the mish ent"), or fighting a +7 AV, or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you go afk in an AV or GM fight although you maybe spamming taunt and taunt is the only power that you can actually guarantee to keep aggro with then you still arent going to be necessarily doing the team any favours. Should the team move to more dangerous positions then you arent there at the keyboard to redirect fire away from them. The game is maths, there is no divine intervention, what you may do with one team against an AV wont be what you can do with another. In cov there is even less need for a tanker (and so there isnt one) as people are more self sufficient and the amount of buffs and debuffs that come from team can get very high.

[ QUOTE ]
Aura pulses every second and taunts for 13s or so base

[/ QUOTE ]

The base duration of taunt in any aura doesnt last to the next taunt pulse.

With enough -acc and -dam in an area you can have as many lvl 54AVs as you like, survivability is more to do with the team support than your brute.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

But you have to remember that AV's although fun dont make up the majority of the game, where scattered minions actually do. Half the time you will find the squishies on your team manage to find the one who hasnt bitten on your aggro yet and taunt will save their behinds. Cant base an entire build on one type of baddie. respec it out later if you wish but i would say taunt is a MUST HAVE for any tank.


 

Posted

[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />

The base duration of taunt in any aura doesnt last to the next taunt pulse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, yes it does.

Aura pulses every 1 second.
Aura taunts for about 13 seconds.

That's simple math. If you don't get it, I can't help you.

[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />
I think the damage you do has more to do with that than your aura.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you knew anything about brutes and AVs/RSF, you'd know the brute "gauntlet" doesn't work against AVs, only auras do. Try attacking all day on a brute w/o aura, a second brute sitting next to you AFK with his aura will keep the aggro.

[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />
If you go afk in an AV or GM fight although you maybe spamming taunt and taunt is the only power that you can actually guarantee to keep aggro with then you still arent going to be necessarily doing the team any favours. Should the team move to more dangerous positions then you arent there at the keyboard to redirect fire away from them. The game is maths, there is no divine intervention, what you may do with one team against an AV wont be what you can do with another. In cov there is even less need for a tanker (and so there isnt one) as people are more self sufficient and the amount of buffs and debuffs that come from team can get very high.

[/ QUOTE ]

'kay, your comments show you don't play CoV at all so I'll clarify a few things for you.

Brutes are closer to scrapper level defenses than tankers.
Brutes's gauntlet doesn't work against AVs (will be fixed with next patch), aura does, taunt does.
Tank's gauntlet/auras doesn't work against AVs (will be fixed with next patch), taunt does, pool power attacks do.

COH has one debuff/buff primary AT (defender) + one control/debuffbuff AT (controller). COV has one debuff/buff secondary AT with same or lower values as controllers (corruptors) and one debuff/buff secondary AT with lower values on debuff and same as controllers on buffs (masterminds).

I don't have taunt, never will have, and one of my AFKs tanker running only Invincibility/Mud pots could hold aggro of 7 blasters of every kind using any power they can. Got it?

The only thing you got partly right is, as you said, the game is math, and the math shows you can perma-taunt an AV with aura only (when Gauntlet works, not atm). So stop trying so hard to spread misinformation.


 

Posted

[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />
But you have to remember that AV's although fun dont make up the majority of the game, where scattered minions actually do. Half the time you will find the squishies on your team manage to find the one who hasnt bitten on your aggro yet and taunt will save their behinds. Cant base an entire build on one type of baddie. respec it out later if you wish but i would say taunt is a MUST HAVE for any tank.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you jump in and sit at one spot all the fight (which is a valid playstyle, but not the only one), yeah, you need taunt. If you jump everywhere and hit every mob, you can easily get most if not all of the attention... and if your 7 teammates can't deal with 1-2 minions, time to get another team IMHO.

Now some people want to have 100% of the aggro and will take taunt, and that's fine, but saying having 90-95% of the aggro isn't enough and that you must have taunt is silly when talking about efficiency, especially when using this power is a severe drop in DPS. There's only 2 situations in this game when Taunt is useful from a min/max PoV : PVP, and slept AVs.


 

Posted

It was not my intention of starting yet another tank/taunt debate..
I am proof that is certainly possible to level to 50 on a tank with nothing but gauntlet and tauntaura.
But once you get to 50 you look towards further challenging deeds to do. Tanking for teams against high level AVs and GMs are one of those things.
And when faced off against a AV taunt is the only thing I can do to guarantee that level 52 Infernal doesnt spin around and oneshots the blaster.

Anecdote time: i remember once being called to help out against the Paladin in Kings Row when i was on my scrapper.

there was 2 tanks there, both Stoners in Granite. Still it was all I could do to get in a couple of hits before it turned around and whacked me silly, taking of half my health before I had to retreat. I looked around and saw the rest of the squishes keeping their distance as well. If a Invuln scrapper couldnt survive in the proximity of that GM, what chance would any of the other have part from the tanks.

In the end I had to alt to my main, my 50 tank, just so I could taunt Paladin and keep the team safe to attack, since the stoners obviously had picked their set (stone) to keep themselves safe, not the team.

Above story is also one of the reasons I put very little faith in letting a Stone tank tank for me.... but thats in another time and place, and besides, the wench is dead.. as they say.


UNION
Officer Cuffz lvl 50 Inv/Nrg Tank
Badge lvl 50 dwarf/human Peacebringer
Dark Air lvl 50 Ice/Cold Corruptor
Ayre lvl 50 Storm/Elec Defender

Total Cat: @Officer Cuffz

"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The base duration of taunt in any aura doesnt last to the next taunt pulse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, yes it does.

Aura pulses every 1 second.
Aura taunts for about 13 seconds.

That's simple math. If you don't get it, I can't help you.



[/ QUOTE ]

No good smirking cos it isnt true. Tell me what was your test method. I can take a good guess.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the damage you do has more to do with that than your aura.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you knew anything about brutes and AVs/RSF, you'd know the brute "gauntlet" doesn't work against AVs, only auras do. Try attacking all day on a brute w/o aura, a second brute sitting next to you AFK with his aura will keep the aggro.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoever deals the greatest of damage gets the aggro, it has nothing to do with gauntlet unless its a brutes single target gauntlet or a tanks hit 5 gauntlet then itll stack but not if it misses and not if you are too low on end to keep ya attack rate up and even then due to the rank of the AV of very low duration.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you go afk in an AV or GM fight although you maybe spamming taunt and taunt is the only power that you can actually guarantee to keep aggro with then you still arent going to be necessarily doing the team any favours. Should the team move to more dangerous positions then you arent there at the keyboard to redirect fire away from them. The game is maths, there is no divine intervention, what you may do with one team against an AV wont be what you can do with another. In cov there is even less need for a tanker (and so there isnt one) as people are more self sufficient and the amount of buffs and debuffs that come from team can get very high.

[/ QUOTE ]

'kay, your comments show you don't play CoV at all so I'll clarify a few things for you.

Brutes are closer to scrapper level defenses than tankers.
Brutes's gauntlet doesn't work against AVs (will be fixed with next patch), aura does, taunt does.
Tank's gauntlet/auras doesn't work against AVs (will be fixed with next patch), taunt does, pool power attacks do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know how gauntlet works, i know how taunt works. I have 4 tanks and 3 brutes. I think your test methods need improving and the fixes wont make taunt any less as good to have as it is.

[ QUOTE ]
COH has one debuff/buff primary AT (defender) + one control/debuffbuff AT (controller). COV has one debuff/buff secondary AT with same or lower values as controllers (corruptors) and one debuff/buff secondary AT with lower values on debuff and same as controllers on buffs (masterminds).

[/ QUOTE ]

I have 3 masterminds, 5 controllers, and 4 dominaters and 3 corrupters. I think i know. Your teaching me how to suck on an egg. There are more likely to be more toons with debuff/buffs in a cov team than in a coh team, almost the world and his mother levelled a mastermind first.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have taunt, never will have, and one of my AFKs tanker running only Invincibility/Mud pots could hold aggro of 7 blasters of every kind using any power they can. Got it?

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realise that many people would come to read this and see the level of what you think you know. In pvp your gauntlet at best would have a 43.5% chance to hit as a tank and if it were a brutes it'll be a single target and your taunt in your aura will count for nothing.

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing you got partly right is, as you said, the game is math, and the math shows you can perma-taunt an AV with aura only (when Gauntlet works, not atm). So stop trying so hard to spread misinformation.

[/ QUOTE ]

You cant perma taunt an AV with the aura. Thats why people arent holding aggro, thats why people want more from gauntlet. Thats why people are saying you need taunt for AVs now. You are being misinforming.

Let me quote Cuppajo from the 30/11/06:

"• Gauntlet and Aura Inherent Taunt Changes:
- All of these powers may now affect Archvillains and Giant Monsters once again. However, they must pass a 'To Hit' check at -20% for the taunt to effect these targets, even for powers such as Invincibility which are normally 'Always Hit' "

-20% isnt exactly hot is it, its not autohit, and these to effect require endurance, auras less so but even so the duration of the aura taunt isnt long, which is why people will manage to pull from tankers and if you note the "once again" thisll tell you that for a while now there hasnt been a anywhere near desireable effect on GMs and AVs until lately on test. Even level foes have escaped auras before the next taunt pulse, the closer to the outskirt of the aura the more able a foe is able to escape and can still happen but any damage component helps against this.
I did tests using an invincible tanker and my trick archers snapshot, i could tell his aura wasnt slotted for taunt when i pulled, but anyway invincibility at that time was looking at the wrong table. I had accepted that because other auras debuffed and/or did damage that especially in the damage scenario the damage stacked with taunt for better effect as it would do. No aura autohits for damage so taunt stacking with damage is unguaranteeable and the higher the rank or level you face the lower the duration you are going to achieve.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Freedom Falcon has Energy Punch because it helps with my attack chain (more so for a stone tank). Other than that... all but stun is usually good!


 

Posted

Ref. the note about the 7 team members reply to my last.

Unless you are very lucky, you will not get teams of 8 people most of the time, unless of course you have a group of regulars that you always team with. you tend to find, particularly at lower levels (bearing in mind we are talking about a tank build from scratch not just a lvl 50's respec options for fighting AV's) that youll end up in a PuG of 4 ppl, who may not be as experienced as you.

My point is that you cant really base a build on the best case scenario, i.e. team of 8 people all experienced all playing a useful role in the team. having said that theres not necessarily any need to build for the worst case either. when its all said and done, enrgy melee is very useful however depending on what armour you choose, taunt would be a very handy option mainly because your the tank and there will garaunteed be a situation where you are needed to take aggro from an ally, and personnaly i dont really fancy dragging the baddies that i have got around me, straight at the squishies so that me AoE can get their attention. BAD idea, especially wehn dealing with enemies like nemesis, who grenade the poop out of you hitting all around you and doing only minor damage to yourself, but wiping out all the squishies you have just made a bee line for