Not really anything new there - Positron and Statesman have said severeal times in the last couple of months that rent would be looked into post-I7 - I was hoping for some specifics 
Bit of an old posi post that one the date stamp is
03/05/06
So by the wacky way the Americans read there dates thats 5 March this year.
I hope he's kept to his word and we do see some change for the better.
Look what I found from 3 days ago on the US Forums
Huzzah!!!!
Dosnt go into deatils but it must be better.
But then, "rent fix" could also mean that the timer for the next period's rent starts when the current one is due, not when the current one is paid, as it is now... 
The simplest rent fix that they could apply would be to have it fixed to a constant (1% i.e.) instead of increasing it with the amount of your capital. It would divide rent by two for a lot of us with mid-range bases.
Eh? Not sure I understand you... 1% isn't constant, it depends on whatever it is a percentage of - i.e. pretty much the system we have now
If on the other hand you mean a constant like a flat 10k prestige or so, then yeah - especially since you get 20k for each of the first 15 new members anyway.
However, maybe a compromise (that's been mentioned many times before, I know), would be to base it on plot size, say 100 per square (so the most basic 8x8 base would cost 6400 rent each month)
Well, I think the rate should be a constant, not the rent. Now it goes from 1% for 1 million of prestige to about 4% for 100+ millions. And the figure goes up sharply at the beginning (it's logarithmic).
This wouldn't be a big modification in the code.
And I like the system with the rent based on the total capital. So a base reflects the size/activity of the SG in the long term. What I dislike is that it's more a loooooooong term.
thing with the rent system the way it is no mater how active your group is or how perfect evry single member is at earnign eventuly you will hit a point where there is no way in hell you will be able to aford your rent ponly diference is larger groups hit this cap faster thats it so basicly they are being punished for being more sucseful than everybody else so doing like alot of people have suugested and changing it to plot size means to have a large oporation base with loads of defences its still gona cost you a fortune on rent coz you will need the large plot sizes to hold two power statoins to power it all
There isnt a problem on earth that cant be solved with the proper aplication of hi explosive's
Darklords of the Underworld/Lords of Light forums [url="http://www.armleg.com/dlotu"]www.armleg.com/dlotu[/url]
Scotlands Bru ill/emp troller lvl 50
Monster Bru SS/stone brute lvl 50
Carman thugs/dark mm lvl 50
I'm sorry, but this is a misunderstanding of how the system works.
You pay the rent based on the total amount of prestige your SG has (cash + base value). Once your rent overtakes the prestige incoming during the same period, your prestige goes down. And so does your rent. When you're there, both oscillate around that "balance point".
The fact is that your capital increases following a curve which becomes flater and flater over the time. When you're at the top of the curve, the base is at its maximum for your SG activity.
If activity lowers or increases, the balance point follows, and rent or gains will put you there after some time.
My understanding was that rent was based on total prestige earned, not prestige earned over the time period of the rent cycle.
If this is the case then i can not see how the rent will drop if prestige earning hits a peak and then dies down for an SG. Instead the total amount of prestige earned will slow in its increase while the 'rent' will remain at it's last level and only take a longer period to hit the next increase marker but never actully fall to a lower rent as total prestige earned will not fall.
As i said this is my understanding and could be very wrong.
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My understanding was that rent was based on total prestige earned, not prestige earned over the time period of the rent cycle.
If this is the case then i can not see how the rent will drop if prestige earning hits a peak and then dies down for an SG. Instead the total amount of prestige earned will slow in its increase while the 'rent' will remain at it's last level and only take a longer period to hit the next increase marker but never actully fall to a lower rent as total prestige earned will not fall.
As i said this is my understanding and could be very wrong.
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Total prestige will fall if SG sells stuff to pay rent. Or just plain pays rent while not earning more. Rent is the only thing that can reduce the total prestige of SG.
Considering situation where SG stops gaining prestige, it will either sell stuff to pay rent until finally hitting 0 total prestige or will not pay rent in which case base will become inoperable until the last rent payment is paid.
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My understanding was that rent was based on total prestige earned, not prestige earned over the time period of the rent cycle.
If this is the case then i can not see how the rent will drop if prestige earning hits a peak and then dies down for an SG. Instead the total amount of prestige earned will slow in its increase while the 'rent' will remain at it's last level and only take a longer period to hit the next increase marker but never actully fall to a lower rent as total prestige earned will not fall.
As i said this is my understanding and could be very wrong.
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Total prestige will fall if SG sells stuff to pay rent. Or just plain pays rent while not earning more. Rent is the only thing that can reduce the total prestige of SG.
Considering situation where SG stops gaining prestige, it will either sell stuff to pay rent until finally hitting 0 total prestige or will not pay rent in which case base will become inoperable until the last rent payment is paid.
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thats the thing right there the total prestige earned has nothign to do with what you do with it selling base items dosnt efect your total prstige earned in any way. that number is automaticly ipdated as people actuly earn and dose not have anytihng to do with how much is in the base kitty or how much the base is worth.
my groups total earned is curently at about 15mil with our about 270k'ish holding us at 17th on union. this is our second time in the top 20 the first time round we lost alot of members and our activity droped alot to almost none in this time we had to downgrade our base back to basics and droped down to about 34th in the rankings as other groups earned more than us and passed us by. during this time our rent in no way slowed down or got less the increase remained at a steady pace.
it was during this time that i worked out that rent is not base on how much the base is worth or how much your sg has ti spend its based on your total amount of prestige earned something like 2% or 3% not alot but as you earn more the rent will continue to increase even if all you earn each week is enuff to pay your rent it still adds to your total earned making your next rent higher
There isnt a problem on earth that cant be solved with the proper aplication of hi explosive's
Darklords of the Underworld/Lords of Light forums [url="http://www.armleg.com/dlotu"]www.armleg.com/dlotu[/url]
Scotlands Bru ill/emp troller lvl 50
Monster Bru SS/stone brute lvl 50
Carman thugs/dark mm lvl 50
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thats the thing right there the total prestige earned has nothign to do with what you do with it selling base items dosnt efect your total prstige earned in any way. that number is automaticly ipdated as people actuly earn and dose not have anytihng to do with how much is in the base kitty or how much the base is worth.
my groups total earned is curently at about 15mil with our about 270k'ish holding us at 17th on union. this is our second time in the top 20 the first time round we lost alot of members and our activity droped alot to almost none in this time we had to downgrade our base back to basics and droped down to about 34th in the rankings as other groups earned more than us and passed us by. during this time our rent in no way slowed down or got less the increase remained at a steady pace.
it was during this time that i worked out that rent is not base on how much the base is worth or how much your sg has ti spend its based on your total amount of prestige earned something like 2% or 3% not alot but as you earn more the rent will continue to increase even if all you earn each week is enuff to pay your rent it still adds to your total earned making your next rent higher
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That can't be right..
Or at least shouldn't be..
Extract from the prima guide :
Base Rent
Supergroups pay rent in Prestige every two weeks
after they build their base. The rent is not based upon
the size of the base, but rather the Prestige amount
the group currently has. This amount is calculated by
adding the Supergroup's current Prestige and the
value of the base's Prestige (its plot, room, and item
costs). So even if a Supergroup has a large Prestige
reservoir and only a small base, it'll pay the same
amount in rent as if it had invested that Prestige into
the base.
The base costs are reflected as a percentage of the
Supergroup's total Prestige.
For example: The Villain group "The Competition"
has a base with a value of 10,000,000 Prestige and a
Prestige amount of another 500,000. This means it
will pay 1.9% or 199,500 Prestige.
Well, it seems there's a few debates going on here about how the Dev's claim it works and how it actually works so I set up a dummy SG on test and have let it go through two full cycles now.
I set up an avergare base on the minimum plot size and just left it for two weeks before paying rent. Two weeks later, I came back on and my rent was exactly the same.
If it was done on how much your SG was worth now, that should not have been the case as i'd lost a load of prestige in rent two weeks earlier. The fact the rent total did not reflect this tends to suggest it uses the 'total prestige earned' figure that get's shown in the SG rankings, rather than your current SG worth value.
That is why the bigger your VG/SG, the quicker you will head to that 'rent more than prestige earning ability' point.
I'm going to be very interested in this rent change that is being implemented because, unless they've really thought out every scenario, we could still see 'bankrupt' SG's.
IMO rent should have some sort of cap on it whereby it can only equal what you currently have available or what you have earned in that particular rent period.
Has anyone reported this as a bug? So we can know whether the response is WAI or the prima guide is wrong. As Scotlands Bru pointed out it can make a big difference, especially to a declining SG.
Paragon Girl
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Well, it seems there's a few debates going on here about how the Dev's claim it works and how it actually works so I set up a dummy SG on test and have let it go through two full cycles now.
I set up an avergare base on the minimum plot size and just left it for two weeks before paying rent. Two weeks later, I came back on and my rent was exactly the same.
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This is an interesting experiment, but you jump to the conclusions much too fast. It might just be an indication of how the rent rate is implemented. It might be neither a discrete function as I thought it to be, nor a rate chart (as it's described in the prima guide), but as an absolute value chart.
Example (figures are silly and just for illustration) :
Let's say that the rent for a total of prestige from 30 millions to 35 millions is 1 million. Let's say you had 32. You paid 1. Then you had 31. Rent is still 1 million.
What you can do is divide the rent you paid by the total prestige you had (the amount reported by that guy in Atlas Park) (multiplied by 100) and see if it falls in the chart given in the prima guide.
If not, well, there's a bug.
If yes, you have to go on paying the rent for a while and see if it still remains the same.
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Extract from the prima guide :
Base Rent
Supergroups pay rent in Prestige every two weeks
after they build their base. The rent is not based upon
the size of the base, but rather the Prestige amount
the group currently has. This amount is calculated by
adding the Supergroup's current Prestige and the
value of the base's Prestige (its plot, room, and item
costs). So even if a Supergroup has a large Prestige
reservoir and only a small base, it'll pay the same
amount in rent as if it had invested that Prestige into
the base.
The base costs are reflected as a percentage of the
Supergroup's total Prestige.
For example: The Villain group "The Competition"
has a base with a value of 10,000,000 Prestige and a
Prestige amount of another 500,000. This means it
will pay 1.9% or 199,500 Prestige.
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Thats what the devs say, but is it so?
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Thats what the devs say, but is it so?
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That's the question... The only way to know is to collect a maximum of evidence, not just thoughts or impressions. Every SG leader should check each time they have the feeling that something is going wrong. And /bug (and also report it here on the boards) if that's not working as documented.
From the beginning, I've been checking the figures. At first to try to determine on what rent was based. I found it was paid on the capital just before it was officially announced. Then to check the chart Statesman gave us. All I can say is that, for us, the figures have always been as described in the book. FWIW, we're a small-medium SG with a total of 5 millions of prestige (on Vigilance, last time I checked, the top SG was somewhere between 12 and 15 millions, can't remember exactly).
For reference, here's the chart given in the prima guide :
1.0% 1,000,000
1.1% 1,250,000
1.1% 1,562,500
1.2% 1,953,125
1.3% 2,441,406
1.3% 3,051,758
1.4% 3,814,697
1.5% 4,768,372
1.6% 5,960,464
1.7% 7,450,581
1.8% 9,313,226
1.9% 11,641,532
2.0% 14,551,915
2.1% 18,189,894
2.3% 22,737,368
2.4% 28,421,709
2.5% 35,527,137
2.7% 44,408,921
2.9% 55,511,151
3.0% 69,388,939
3.2% 86,736,174
3.4% 108,420,217
3.6% 135,525,272
3.8% 169,406,589
Some figures appear more than once, indicating that they're either rounded from something more precise, or as I said before, because the chart implemented in the game uses absolute values of prestige instead of percentages.
HTH
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Thats what the devs say, but is it so?
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That's the question... The only way to know is to collect a maximum of evidence, not just thoughts or impressions. Every SG leader should check each time they have the feeling that something is going wrong. And /bug (and also report it here on the boards) if that's not working as documented.
From the beginning, I've been checking the figures. At first to try to determine on what rent was based. I found it was paid on the capital just before it was officially announced. Then to check the chart Statesman gave us. All I can say is that, for us, the figures have always been as described in the book. FWIW, we're a small-medium SG with a total of 5 millions of prestige (on Vigilance, last time I checked, the top SG was somewhere between 12 and 15 millions, can't remember exactly).
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One thing that I want to test, is does the rent go down if the prestige owned goes down(and no new prestige is gained). Should be possible to test this on test server by using a character to make SG and base, and then pay rent once and then watch what the next rent payment is like if no new prestige is made. The second payment should be smaller than the first.
Erm... please just read the previous post by Kinslayer and my answer.
a.) The guy in atlas park does not report total prestige since part of that is in the base items and rooms. He only says how much SG has available to pay rent. Theres actually no way to find that out except by calculating yourself. Or selling everything in base. Or if the SG happens to be in the TOP x of SGs chart. And lord knows how often that list is updated.
b.) I couldnt care less for prima guide.
[/color]<blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:[/color]<hr />
a.) The guy in atlas park does not report total prestige since part of that is in the base items and rooms. He only says how much SG has available to pay rent. Theres actually no way to find that out except by calculating yourself. Or selling everything in base. Or if the SG happens to be in the TOP x of SGs chart.
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Wrong. What he gives you is the total amount of prestige you have, cash + base value. What you see in the SG window is the cash available only.
Linkie for info. on post from Positron
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...art=2&vc=1
Paragon Girl