Fire/Energy build, new to tanking

Hey there, long time lurker making my first build post - so please be gentle...

I went with leaping/fighting for extra def, energy mastery for added accuracy.

I'm looking for suggestions on slotting, power picks, and general tanking advice since I am very new at tanking.

I've never done a respec trial yet, so this is just a build from scratch after reading about various tanking pools/secondaries.

Left out:
energy punch - less attacks means more room for toggles
healing flames - hopefully there'll be a healer about
temperature protection - not enough room/slots
stun - less worried about disorient than toggles
burn - break frees are my friend
fiery embrace - not a /fire build

Left in:
consume/stamina/conserve - end worries
blazing aura/taunt/whirl - holding aggro
hasten - makes build up work more often (mmm...)
focused accuracy - I hate missing

I'm aware my slotting is probably rubbish, all I know is one acc for single target, two for AoE.

My goal as a tanker is to hold aggro and provide some DoT with a view towards laying the smackdown on bosses with Build Up + ET + TF later in the game.

So - here's the build!

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Pyrepower
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Fiery Aura
Secondary: Energy Melee
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Blazing Aura==> EndRdx(1) EndRdx(3) EndRdx(7) Dmg(15) Dmg(17) Dmg(19)
01) --> Barrage==> Acc(1)
02) --> Fire Shield==> EndRdx(2) EndRdx(3) DmgRes(13) DmgRes(15) DmgRes(17)
04) --> Bone Smasher==> Acc(4) Rechg(5) Dmg(5) Dmg(7) Dmg(9)
06) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(6)
08) --> Consume==> Acc(8) Acc(9) Rechg(11) Rechg(19) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
10) --> Taunt==> Acc(10) Acc(11) Rechg(37)
12) --> Plasma Shield==> EndRdx(12) DmgRes(13) DmgRes(34) DmgRes(40)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Hurdle==> Jump(16)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Whirling Hands==> Acc(22) Acc(25) Dmg(25) Dmg(31) Dmg(43) Rechg(43)
24) --> Kick==> Acc(24)
26) --> Tough==> EndRdx(26) EndRdx(27) EndRdx(27) DmgRes(31) DmgRes(31) DmgRes(42)
28) --> Build Up==> Rechg(28) Rechg(29) Rechg(29)
30) --> Hasten==> Rechg(30) Rechg(43) Rechg(46)
32) --> Rise of the Phoenix==> Rechg(32) Rechg(33) Heal(33) Heal(33) EndMod(34) EndMod(34)
35) --> Energy Transfer==> Acc(35) Rechg(36) Rechg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(37) Dmg(37)
38) --> Total Focus==> Acc(38) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Rechg(40) Rechg(40)
41) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(41) Rechg(42) Rechg(42)
44) --> Focused Accuracy==> EndRdx(44) EndRdx(45) EndRdx(45) TH_Buf(45) TH_Buf(46) Rechg(46)
47) --> Weave==> EndRdx(47) EndRdx(48) EndRdx(48) DefBuf(48) DefBuf(50) DefBuf(50)
49) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(49) EndRdx(50)
---------------------------------------------


Gentle! GENTLE!




Nanomancer

You'll really really really want Healing Flames. Really.

You'll also want Acrobatics a lot earlier, or you'll spend a lot of your tanking days on your back.

And you won't need so many endreds in the shields.

I know, I agonized over leaving healing flames out... I was really struggling to get travel powers and stamina into a survivable build. Back to the drawing board I guess.

I originally left whirling hands out and took the whole kick-tough-weave-acrobatics route starting at 22. Would you recommend acrobatics at 20 followed by stamina at 22 and then the rest?

I was aiming at 0.2 or lower cost... what's a good level to have toggle costs at?

Thanks for your advice - *knew* I was making a mistake not taking a heal power.


Nanomancer

I'll second you really, really needing Healing Flames - the difference in survivability with and without it is huge.

You only need ACCs in Taunt if you're going to be doing PvP.

Take boxing instead of kick - you'll rarely use either, but boxing is faster and cheaper to use.

3-slot Health, you'll notice it as a Tanker.

Only need one "End Red" in Fire Shield and one or two in Tough. You don't need 3 end reds in Weave or Focused Acc either and you'll only want 1 in Acrobatics.

6-slotting ROTP suggests that you're planning to die. Slotting it with recharges suggests that you're planning to die a lot. Neither is recommended.

a fire tank without fiery embrace is a huge waste especially with energy secondary, here is my PvP build which won the recent FFA, have pvp'd a lot for him so i think its pretty much perfect for PvP:

Name: X-plosive
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Fiery Aura
Secondary: Energy Melee
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Fire Shield==> DmgRes(1) DmgRes(3) DmgRes(3) EndRdx(5)
01) --> Barrage==> Acc(1)
02) --> Healing Flames==> Heal(2) Heal(5) Heal(7) Rechg(7) Rechg(9)
04) --> Bone Smasher==> Dmg(4) Dmg(9) Dmg(11) Acc(11) Acc(25)
06) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(6) Jump(17) Jump(46)
08) --> Hurdle==> Jump(8)
10) --> Taunt==> Rechg(10) Rechg(17) Acc(29) Acc(43)
12) --> Plasma Shield==> DmgRes(12) DmgRes(13) DmgRes(13) EndRdx(15)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14) EndRdx(15)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16) Heal(19) Heal(19)
18) --> Hasten==> Rechg(18) Rechg(21) Rechg(21)
20) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
24) --> Super Speed==> Run(24) Run(25)
26) --> Challenge==> Rechg(26) Rechg(27) Acc(27) Acc(29)
28) --> Build Up==> Rechg(28) Rechg(31) Rechg(31) TH_Buf(31) TH_Buf(33) TH_Buf(33)
30) --> Fiery Embrace==> Rechg(30) Rechg(33) Rechg(34)
32) --> Intimidate==> Rechg(32) Rechg(34) Rechg(34) Acc(36) Acc(36) Fear(46)
35) --> Energy Transfer==> Dmg(35) Dmg(36) Dmg(37) Acc(37) Acc(37) EndRdx(39)
38) --> Total Focus==> Dmg(38) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Acc(40) Acc(40) EndRdx(40)
41) --> Focused Accuracy==> TH_Buf(41) TH_Buf(42) TH_Buf(42) EndRdx(42) EndRdx(43) EndRdx(43)
44) --> Laser Beam Eyes==> Dmg(44) Dmg(45) Dmg(45) Acc(45) Acc(46)
47) --> Energy Torrent==> Dmg(47) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) Acc(48) Acc(50)
49) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(49) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)

[ QUOTE ]
You only need ACCs in Taunt if you're going to be doing PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point - I'm not a fan of PvP and forgot it auto-hits PvE.

[ QUOTE ]
Take boxing instead of kick - you'll rarely use either, but boxing is faster and cheaper to use.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nod, I only took kick for the knockdown.

[ QUOTE ]
Only need one "End Red" in Fire Shield and one or two in Tough. You don't need 3 end reds in Weave or Focused Acc either and you'll only want 1 in Acrobatics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah ok. Makes me wonder what I am going to do with all these spare slots.

[ QUOTE ]
6-slotting ROTP suggests that you're planning to die. Slotting it with recharges suggests that you're planning to die a lot. Neither is recommended.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funniest thing I have heard in a long time! Thankyou. Recommended slotting? Leave it out?



Nanomancer

[ QUOTE ]
a fire tank without fiery embrace is a huge waste especially with energy secondary

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it only affected fire attacks..?



Nanomancer

Ok well heres my 2 inf, all just imo so take or ignore as needed

Take Healing Flames! no really I know its been said allready but really take it you will use it. You dont have strong enough protection to rely on the odd heal from a teamate and any healer on a team is going to be busy enough with the squishys. Also its value solo cannot be overstated imo.

1 end redux in your primary shields and 2 in tough/weave will do the job slots are better used elsewhere. Blazing Aura does need them though.

Slot Blazing aura with a taunt or two over damage imo as aggro grab is your friend.

Pick up Acro much earlier you will need it badly.

RotP can be left till later if you take it at all and doesnt need slotting tbh, you really shouldnt need a self res as a tanker and tbh its not a great tier 9 power.

Focused acc imo needs 3 end redux and 3 tohit buff thats it, but I am no expert.

Firey Embrace is not just for fire it gives 10 seconds of dam increase to all attacks and 20 seconds to fire attacks iirc I would take it over RotP.

Conserve Power is overkill on the end front get 1 end redux in all your attacks and Stamina and Consume will do the job, well it works for me

Hope thats of help and enjoy the Fire Tank goodness!

Cheers,

White

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You only need ACCs in Taunt if you're going to be doing PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point - I'm not a fan of PvP and forgot it auto-hits PvE.


[/ QUOTE ]

ignore my build then but fiery embrace is still very useful in pve

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a fire tank without fiery embrace is a huge waste especially with energy secondary

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it only affected fire attacks..?



Nanomancer

[/ QUOTE ]

I common misconception and one that I was afflicted by for a while - probably due to poor or old power descriptions, these things usually are.

Extra slots can go into Health and putting some end reductions in your big attacks.

ROTP only really needs a single Recharge. If you've got spare slots you can add some heals, but it's not of major importance.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a fire tank without fiery embrace is a huge waste especially with energy secondary

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it only affected fire attacks..?



Nanomancer

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope although a lot of people think that, its not very clear see my post for an attemp at the explination.

Cheers,

White

Well I redid the build, somewhere in there I lost plasma shield though... I could take it instead of whirl or laser, but that seems a little late in the build. Thoughts?

New build:

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Fiery Aura
Secondary: Energy Melee
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Blazing Aura==> EndRdx(1) EndRdx(3) EndRdx(9) Taunt(11) Taunt(15) Dmg(17)
01) --> Barrage==> Acc(1)
02) --> Healing Flames==> Heal(2) Heal(3) Heal(15) Rechg(25) Rechg(34) Rechg(43)
04) --> Bone Smasher==> Acc(4) Rechg(5) Dmg(5) Dmg(7) Dmg(17) DisDur(46)
06) --> Fire Shield==> EndRdx(6) DmgRes(7) DmgRes(11) DmgRes(31)
08) --> Consume==> Acc(8) Acc(9) Rechg(13) Rechg(21) EndMod(21) EndMod(25)
10) --> Taunt==> Taunt(10) Rechg(13) Range(46)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Hurdle==> Jump(16)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18) Heal(19) Heal(19)
20) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
24) --> Boxing==> Acc(24)
26) --> Tough==> EndRdx(26) EndRdx(27) DmgRes(27) DmgRes(33) DmgRes(34)
28) --> Build Up==> Rechg(28) Rechg(29) Rechg(29) TH_Buf(34) TH_Buf(37) TH_Buf(40)
30) --> Hasten==> Rechg(30) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)
32) --> Fiery Embrace==> Rechg(32) Rechg(33) Rechg(33)
35) --> Energy Transfer==> Acc(35) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Rechg(37) EndRdx(37)
38) --> Total Focus==> Acc(38) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Rechg(40) EndRdx(40)
41) --> Focused Accuracy==> EndRdx(41) EndRdx(42) EndRdx(42) TH_Buf(42) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43)
44) --> Weave==> EndRdx(44) EndRdx(45) DefBuf(45) DefBuf(45) DefBuf(46)
47) --> Whirling Hands==> Acc(47) Acc(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) Rechg(50) EndRdx(50)
49) --> Laser Beam Eyes==> Acc(49) DefDeBuf(50)
---------------------------------------------

Thanks for the input so far!




Nanomancer

Eeeeeek !!!!

No plasma shield = bad idea

Shields are the core of tanker primaries

Hmm I will throw a build together I think see if that helps, will post up in a mo...

Cheers,

White

You need to take Plasma Shield as soon as its available. No Energy/Negative resists will kill you extremely fast, especially later in the game.

Right one of the build options for my own Fire/EM tank hopefully will give you a good idea. This build is a balance between PvE and PvP but wieghted more toward PvE...

Warning slots may well be a bit random in the levels I took em at...

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: White Sentinel
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Fiery Aura
Secondary: Energy Melee
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Fire Shield==> DmgRes(1) DmgRes(11) DmgRes(11) EndRdx(15)
01) --> Barrage==> Acc(1) Dmg(43) Dmg(43)
02) --> Healing Flames==> Rechg(2) Rechg(3) Rechg(3) Heal(5) Heal(5) EndRdx(7)
04) --> Blazing Aura==> EndRdx(4) EndRdx(7) EndRdx(17) Acc(17) Taunt(19) Taunt(50)
06) --> Combat Jumping==> EndRdx(6)
08) --> Hasten==> Rechg(8) Rechg(9) Rechg(9)
10) --> Bone Smasher==> Acc(10) Acc(19) Dmg(23) Dmg(25) Dmg(25) EndRdx(27)
12) --> Plasma Shield==> DmgRes(12) DmgRes(13) DmgRes(13) EndRdx(15)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Swift==> Run(16)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18) Heal(29) Heal(48)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Whirling Hands==> Acc(22) Acc(23) Dmg(27) Dmg(34) Dmg(37) Rechg(40)
24) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(24) EndRdx(50)
26) --> Boxing==> Acc(26)
28) --> Tough==> DmgRes(28) DmgRes(29) EndRdx(31) EndRdx(31) EndRdx(46)
30) --> Taunt==> Taunt(30) Taunt(31) Rechg(43)
32) --> Consume==> Rechg(32) Rechg(33) Rechg(33) EndMod(33) EndMod(34) Acc(34)
35) --> Energy Transfer==> Acc(35) Acc(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(37) EndRdx(37)
38) --> Total Focus==> Acc(38) Acc(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(40) EndRdx(40)
41) --> Build Up==> Rechg(41) Rechg(42) Rechg(42) TH_Buf(42) TH_Buf(50)
44) --> Focused Accuracy==> EndRdx(44) EndRdx(45) EndRdx(45) TH_Buf(45) TH_Buf(46) TH_Buf(46)
47) --> Fiery Embrace==> Rechg(47) Rechg(48) Rechg(48)
49) --> Rise of the Phoenix==> Rechg(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)

Hope that helps matey

Cheers,

White

Hmmm took hasten earlier and left out weave... and left taunt til level 30?

*ponders*

What about this:

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Pyrepower
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Fiery Aura
Secondary: Energy Melee
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Blazing Aura==> EndRdx(1) EndRdx(3) EndRdx(3) Taunt(9) Taunt(34) Dmg(43)
01) --> Barrage==> Acc(1)
02) --> Healing Flames==> Rechg(2) Rechg(9) Rechg(21) Heal(27) Heal(34) Heal(43)
04) --> Bone Smasher==> Acc(4) Rechg(5) Dmg(5) Dmg(7) Dmg(11) EndRdx(27)
06) --> Fire Shield==> EndRdx(6) DmgRes(7) DmgRes(11) DmgRes(15)
08) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(8)
10) --> Taunt==> Rechg(10) Taunt(46)
12) --> Plasma Shield==> EndRdx(12) DmgRes(13) DmgRes(13) DmgRes(15)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14) Jump(46) Jump(46)
16) --> Consume==> Acc(16) Acc(17) Rechg(17) Rechg(19) EndMod(19) EndMod(21)
18) --> Hurdle==> Jump(18)
20) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(20)
22) --> Health==> Heal(22) Heal(23) Heal(23)
24) --> Stamina==> EndMod(24) EndMod(25) EndMod(25)
26) --> Boxing==> Acc(26)
28) --> Tough==> EndRdx(28) EndRdx(29) DmgRes(29) DmgRes(31) DmgRes(33)
30) --> Build Up==> Rechg(30) Rechg(31) Rechg(31) TH_Buf(34) TH_Buf(37) TH_Buf(40)
32) --> Hasten==> Rechg(32) Rechg(33) Rechg(33)
35) --> Energy Transfer==> Acc(35) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Rechg(37) EndRdx(37)
38) --> Total Focus==> Acc(38) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Rechg(40) EndRdx(40)
41) --> Focused Accuracy==> EndRdx(41) EndRdx(42) TH_Buf(42) TH_Buf(42) TH_Buf(43) EndRdx(45)
44) --> Fiery Embrace==> Rechg(44) Rechg(45) Rechg(45)
47) --> Weave==> EndRdx(47) EndRdx(48) DefBuf(48) DefBuf(48)
49) --> Whirling Hands==> Acc(49) Acc(50) Dmg(50) Dmg(50)
---------------------------------------------


Nanomancer

I don't have my fire tank build any more, but there are 4 things common to all "proper" tanks (i.e. Those who plan to Tank, not Scrank) that are required ASAP, without exception.

Shields
Mez Protection
Taunt
Self-Heal

Anything else is a secondary concern.

Agreed, I just hate pushing back travel powers and stamina further than I have to.


Nanomancer

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm took hasten earlier and left out weave... and left taunt til level 30?

*ponders*

What about this:

[/ QUOTE ]

Oooops another point I forgot to put on that build I was soloing a lot at low levels so yup taunt was taken late in a respec my bad sos *Hits self with n00b stick*

Build looks a lot better matey cant see any major issues

Cheers,

White

Damn, I guess my stone/fire is a scranker. Better tell my team too, I don't think they noticed as they never had any aggro... while I see random tauntbots on other teams losing aggro everywhere because they haven't their damage/aggro aura and Taunt only hits 5 at a time. Oops.

Reals tanks have shields, mez protection, self-heals, aura, AoE attacks (taunt is useful too, but not needed). They do fine and have fun tanking for 8-man teams.

Forum stars have taunt, shields, mez protection and self-heals, but few attacks and sometimes no aura. They complain about how tanks were better in I3/I4, how it's impossible to tank now, how tanks aren't balanced, how people that do fine and have fun with their tanks are lying or scrankers, blah blah blah. They'll try to say Taunt is the best thing ever in every thread they see.

I'll let you choose which one you want to be.

A little overly aggressive Lecxe.

The taunt debate will forever go on, I for one like to have it in addition to my taunt aura. But everyone has different palystyles, there is no one definitive way of tanking otherwise we'd all have exactly the same build and paly exactly the same way.

I'm extremely effective as my tank, and I play it how I want to play with the powers I've chosen to take.

Scathing.

Tanks *were* better in I3/I4,
It's quite possible to tank now, albeit not as easy as in I3
Tanks aren't balanced, intra-AT, but are much better than they used to be
I have a great deal of fun playing my pure tank in a team

Yes, taunt auras are pretty much essential, but you can often put them off for a few levels without affecting your survivability too much - at least at lower levels (And Blazing Aura is as low as they get). I won't get into the Taunt/No Taunt argument, but while a good tank can manage without Taunt, a better tank has it for when it's needed.

I got by on teams on the build I gave without taunt before I respeced using BA and Punchvoke and I know tanks who dont use it, the debate is one that comes down to playstyle imo. Taunt is handy and for some even a must for others its a nice extra and for others still a waste, each to there own and varity ftw!

Cheers,

White

Well I've certainly received a lot of good advice in a very short amount of time.

Hopefully this toon will provide me with a good tanking experience; I've had terrible ones so far, so didn't count them when I said new to tanking. I should have said "new to tanking *properly*".

Hopefully I'll soon be out there having fun tanking 8-person teams. Assuming any of you are awake! (Aussie timezone aura)

Cheers,


Nanomancer

[ QUOTE ]
Damn, I guess my stone/fire is a scranker. Better tell my team too, I don't think they noticed as they never had any aggro... while I see random tauntbots on other teams losing aggro everywhere because they haven't their damage/aggro aura and Taunt only hits 5 at a time. Oops.

Reals tanks have shields, mez protection, self-heals, aura, AoE attacks (taunt is useful too, but not needed). They do fine and have fun tanking for 8-man teams.

Forum stars have taunt, shields, mez protection and self-heals, but few attacks and sometimes no aura. They complain about how tanks were better in I3/I4, how it's impossible to tank now, how tanks aren't balanced, how people that do fine and have fun with their tanks are lying or scrankers, blah blah blah. They'll try to say Taunt is the best thing ever in every thread they see.

I'll let you choose which one you want to be.

[/ QUOTE ]
This kind of post really isn't very helpful, and doesn't contribute anything particularly useful to the thread.

Please consider your posts more carefully in future.