Defence vs Resist


Alvan

 

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There is no resistance debuff resistance, since resistance inheretly resists resistance debuffs. Defence doesn't inheretly resist defence debuffs, which is why many defence powers got defence debuff resistance added.

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*unpicks brain*

Have you a source for this? I havent seen anything on resistance powers resisting -res debuffs.

Good post mind. Very germanic in its grammar!

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, the wording is kinda awkward

As for source, I'll quote Arcana's Guide to Defense v1.4:

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This is significant because resistance does not work that way. All resistance powers have an inherent resistance to resistance debuffs. When someone with 40% defense is hit with a 10% defense debuff, defense is reduced to 30%. When someone with 40% resistance is hit with a 10% resistance debuff, 40% of the debuff is resisted, and actual damage resistance drops to 34%, not 30%. Furthermore, the resistance to debuffs remains 40%. If hit with another 10% resistance debuff, resistance drops to 28%, not 20% (like defense would be) and not 27.4%, which would be the case if resistance was truely dropped to 34%.

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Also, it should be noted that damage resistance also resists damage debuffs, not just resistance debuffs.


 

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Mathematics aside, I thing all depends of what kind of character you may want to create... in PVE both of them are quite playable... I have a 39 INV/tank and a 41 Energy Armour Brute, and both of them can manage foes at Invincible without problem (of course sometimes they go down, but not with regular bosses or lieutenants)... I personally enjoy the brute quite more due to the secondary powers... Just by getting medicine pool, you are able to heal yourself and recover your endurance and keeping in mind fury this combo means a non stopping carnage! Anyway, at low levels I nearly deleted him because he was dying quite often... But after SO's defence improved a lot! Maybe for me the best combo would be a Resist pool that also grants an endurance drain power (IMO Electric Armour)... But in any case it is just a matter of character concept for me...And my brute was created before Electric brutes came into play...


 

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Heroes don't have to contend with the likes of the dreaded longbow nullifier post 40 sonic grenade stacking ftl unless you have a mind control dominator hehe


Heroes: Phobos-, Protector-Bot, Shadow of Ra, Bionic Eye, Entropic Chaos, Strike-Freedom.

Villains: Necron Phobos, Khorne-Berzerker, Full Metal Panic, Smasher Devourer, Degrees Kelvin.

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Overall, and trying to resume, for pvp go for pure resistance, becoz it cannot be negated just eating yellows or pressing aim/BU...



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Actually as Aim/BU boosts damage this does reduce or negate it as will eating Reds.

GB Boomers are likely to be nasty - boss level sonics, the Council also has sonics but they are only minions so probably wont last long enough to be a major threat unless you ignore them.


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Posted

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This is significant because resistance does not work that way. All resistance powers have an inherent resistance to resistance debuffs. When someone with 40% defense is hit with a 10% defense debuff, defense is reduced to 30%. When someone with 40% resistance is hit with a 10% resistance debuff, 40% of the debuff is resisted, and actual damage resistance drops to 34%, not 30%. Furthermore, the resistance to debuffs remains 40%. If hit with another 10% resistance debuff, resistance drops to 28%, not 20% (like defense would be) and not 27.4%, which would be the case if resistance was truely dropped to 34%.

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I'd like to see more testing on anything concerning RES.

Brutes who fought Longbow Nullifiers or Positron in the RSF know how fast you go from 90% res to 0 or lower with their -res debuffs, so unless it's a special case of "unresisted" stuff I don't believe it works that way. If it did, you'd resist 90% of the debuff and only lose 5% from a 50% res debuff. I don't know what's the actual value is, but 50% is higher than any player debuff and I'm sure pretty much any elec, granite and inv brute knows 3-4 nullifiers debuffs means you're toast, even in PS/Unstoppable. I've been hit for 400-500 damage from orange lieutenants under a few of those debuffs, and I doubt +1 nullifiers deal 2000+ base damage.

I've also heard exceeding RES cap doesn't work - and this isn't true either in my experience. Easy example is to compare a /elec brute with 3 RES slots in PS and shields (around 200-250% nrj res, and 130% L/C) , compared to a granite brute (90% L/C, 65% nrj) ; the latter drops like a rock when hit by Posi's debuff, the first starts to feel L/C damage but still shrugs nrj damage.


 

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I think the "Longbow Problem" with stacking -res debuffs exists because the debuff resistance goes down together with the damage resistance. This would also mean that once you reach negative resistance those debuffs will really hurt and you might hit the -res cap really fast. With -res debuffs from several sources this is not too unlikely, especially if you do not run a lvl38 armour at that moment. (I think 4 or 5 nullifiers would suffice to reach the -res cap in one salvo of sonic grenades.)
As a matter of fact, this reminds me of my fastest AV fight ever during a villain respec. There was one stone/dark brute accompanied by a fire/kin corruptor, a sonic/thermal corruptor and my sonic/kin corruptor. The -res from sonic started stacking and the thorn tree AV went down in mere seconds. The CoT ambushs arrived after we had already congratulated each other and were just wondering in team chat why there had been no ambushs.

The other thing with Positron´s debuff I have witnessed first hand. (Positron could not hurt my elec brute.) I think it must have something to do with how the resistance cap is applied during the calculation, but I am not sure about that since I am too lazy to do the maths and testing.




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