Pointers for the Artistically Challenged
By
Avernal_EU,
Posted on: 2006-08-09 06:02 in Multi-Media Fan Creations
Try building up your character out of skeletons/stick figures first. Then it's much easier to see if the proportions are right. After that, fill it up with circles and ovals, and finally, fix the circles and ovals to become body parts.
That way it's much easier to determine the proportions of a character.
My other advice (unfortunately for you :P) is practicing. ALOT. Sketching, sketching, sketching! Like any hobby, you can't expect to become good if you don't practice.
Good luck!
Heh thanks for the advice Tilt [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Saying "the obvious answer is practice, but if you could point me in the right direction" wasn't an attempt at shirking hard work, more the fact that I could practice and practice, but if I fundamentally don't really know what I'm doing, I'm just going to get no where fast!
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
There's a number of very good books out there that go through the basic process (which I sell [img]/uk/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) but fundamentally it works on:
For Figures, Go with Tilt's advice and learn the basic ovals and rules for figures. (I.E. Male bodies are 6 heads tall, Superheroes are 7 heads tall)
For Industrial Landscapes : Set your vanishing point and view point and draw with these lines set up; use the same lines for foreshadowing.
Or just Click here
I picked up two books a few weeks ago, specifically for drawing comic book characters. They offer some great advice (as well as helpful tips from Spiderman, Thor, Iron Man, etc) about the basics, perspectives, musculature...and one of the books spends a good four pages or so talking about how to draw the perfect female ***. I'd recommend both of them, even if you won't see any drawings from me on here in the near future.
As has been stated, practice is essential...but, again, as you say, you need to know what to practice. Here're the books:
How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way (old school)
Drawing Cutting Edge Comics (worth it for sheer humour value)
If you pop into your local bookstore, they should hold at least one of these - the Marvel book is a classic.
Hope this helped!
the marvel book IS really good. It's how i learned to draw figures
@ScarletVengeance
My CoV Portrait Gallery
How to draw comics the Marvel way IS the reference for comic characters, in my eyes. Not too technical and yet still goes in depth.
I recommend it as well.
Construction lines are the basis of your character. And yes, practice is the basis of getting better. Just like learning how to play an musical instrument.
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-A common mistake is to have your face/eyes to close to your sheet of paper. Try to keep your distance relatively wide so you can have a proper "ensemble" view of your creation.
-Relax your hand when holding the pen/pencil. That way your lines will turn out more dynamic and loose.
-Think of your character as a whole when sketching him/her out. Don't build the head then the torso etc.. you'll end up with disproportions and lack of space. Use the basic stick figure lines then add your head/limbs/muscles/clothes over it.
-Women and men have different physiology. Learn the difference between the male and female pelvis for example.
-Try to preview the full drawing in your head before actually starting to draw. Will everything fit in? Will the limbs and background fit on the canvas/sheet of paper? [/list]All I can think of, from the top of my head...
Also, it would have been nice for the OP to post something for us to see... easier to give pointers then.
I'm at work so I can only use previously done draw-overs and sketches but maybe these can help:
Face
Face
Body
Body
basic construction lines
See how the shoulders and pelvis are in opposite directions
Here as well
Here too
Now I don't pretend being an expert therefor these are not to be taken as gospel.
Read more about it.
Practice more on it.
Hope this helps at all... ^^
PS: Lol @ retarded colour blind baboon xD
See? Swissy and Scarlet know where it's at!
By contrast, the "Cutting Edge" book goes into the more recent styles of comics such as those released by Image, etc - take a look at Psygon's avatar sometime...it covers drawing like that. Very Campbell Scott. I'm looking through it as I write this, as it covers close ups of hands, feet, the male face (and very helpful pages on the anatomy of the face, including a basic guide to the muscles in the face, "hidden" and layered muscles in the torso, arms, legs, etc), how to properly shade a woman's chest (??) the contour lines of a woman's upper body, male and female dynamic twisting, how to draw...
"Sexy Eyes"
"Irresistable Lips"
"Transforming A Regular Woman Into A Seductress"
...You know, I just noticed that this book may have a recurring theme.
Anyway, it also covers styles such as Manga, drawing comic cook styled characters contrasted with animated show styled characters, "Extreme" body types, including werewolves, vampires, and, for some reason, a hugely muscular female elf gets depicted (anyone who teamed with me recently during a Cabal mission will know my reaction here - "Witches! With....rock hard abs?"), multiple point perspectives, and includes interviews with Billy Tan, Brian Denham, R.V Valdez, Talent Caldwell, and Nate Van ****.
Not that it's better than the Marvel book, far from it. However, I consider the Marvel book as the book for beginners, and, once you start getting to grips with things, and it becomes easier, it might be time to look at the Cutting Edge book, saince it's set up for intermediate, as opposed to starting, artists.
Many thanks Swissy, your advice has been taken well on board, and if I can come up with something half as good as some of your stuff, I'll be very happy! I had toyed with the idea of taking a screeny of my character Tiger Slash, and seeing if I could identify the construction lines and "ovals" within him, before attempting to draw him; work backwards if you like. Do you think this would be a good starting point? It might help me to get a better idea of proportion.
It's interesting the three of you mention the "How To" Marvel book, because a bit of brief searching before posting revealed this as a good introduction for the artistic noob like me. The fact that it comes recommended by both Swissy and Scarlet, who have both incited a jaw shaped dent in my desk after looking at their galleries is certainly endorsement enough!
Thanks again for your input - I'll give it a bash tonight and post up my attempts (assuming I'm brave enough hehe)
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
Post away. No harm in doing so ^^
Side note:
Probably the best advice one can give: Don't rush into stylised art before knowing, practicing and breathing the fine and classic art.
Very few autodidactes made it by just learning off comics or manga.
I garanty you that 90% of artists you have come to love or hate in the comic/manga/european comics world, have gone through lengthy and extensive years of life drawing, painting, visual communication exercise etc...
Just thought I'd mention that since it's one of the major fondamental mistakes you see all over the net.
Swissy wins the thread with almighty knowledge. Listen to Swissy, everyone.
heh, I got carried away there again, didn't I...
>.>;
Ok, hope this helps you get started if nothing else.
I apologise for the crudeness of the pics, but they're just to show you how to start it off.
First of all, let's assume you want to draw a heroic (or villainous - I'm not judging! ) man, clenching his fists like he's ready to start (or finish) a fight.
First of all, you could draw a stickman, like this:
Figure 1
But frankly, it's a bit pants, and you can't really tell what he's doing. Also, it's not a great starting point, because he's lacking certain anatomical references. For instance - people have shoulders (I'm kinda hoping this isn't news! :P ) and a pelvis, and they have a neck between the head and the body. Also, heads aren't round like a ball, they're more of an oval shape.
So, starting with a stickman again, this time, it's a little different just to take the above factors into account.
figure 2
so, you still don't need to be an artistic legend to create figure 2, but it's a better starting point for your figure.
My biggest hint at this point is practise doing these, cos you can knock them up in seconds and you'll soon get to a place where you're tweaking them because they don't look quite right - it's a great way (and IMHO an essential way) of planning out a pose before you start your drawing proper.
Once you're happy with your pose, you can make it more dynamic- as you are drawing superheroes after all - this is something I got from the marvel book, and have used it ever since.
I've decided to get a bit closer to the action so I can show the expression on my character's face. I also want to put a bit of depth in, so I've made the pose a bit more dynamic...
figure 3
and then I'm going to flesh it out.
This is where you really need to use your eyes. look at what people look like. I find one of the best references is athletes, so do a google image search for sprinters, or hurdlers (sp? - people that jump hurdles, anyway!) and look at how the muscles fit over the skeleton.
I've done a VERY quick sketch to flesh out this character, and it's rubbish, in honesty, but I guess that gives another key message - you're not always going to get it right first time, but by keeping your lines loose and referring to reference images, you're be able to pick out the lines you want and refine your drawing until it's looking great.
figure 4
I hope that helps. I know it's very basic, but it will pay dividends if you practise. Even though I can produce figures I'm really happy with now, I ALWAYS start with these steps.
Everything that I've posted on my thread started this way, so give it a go, and let us know how you get on!
@ScarletVengeance
My CoV Portrait Gallery
[ QUOTE ]
Probably the best advice one can give: Don't rush into stylised art before knowing, practicing and breathing the fine and classic art.
[/ QUOTE ]
You've hit the nail on the head there Swissy. I for one have no ability whatsoever to produce Manga figures. i think Manga often 'suckers' people into thinking it's very simple to create, but without an understanding of form, it just won't look right.
@ScarletVengeance
My CoV Portrait Gallery
That, and manga is overrated. Every cool kid that can draw tries manga nowadays. Most of them think it's some sort of 'better' artform.
There is so much styles in the world, don't be afraid to try out different stuff until you find what you like. And even if you find that, don't stick to it 24/7. [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
hey.. Hey! HEY!
Don't write manga off this way! o_O;
Theoretically, manga styled art could require even more effort and work than comic art. The link between life drawing and manga is much, much far apart than life drawing and comics.
Therefor, to create a proper manga styled character could use more thought and practice.
The "study" of Japanese style from life to manga, would, in a nutshell, look like this:
Real life ---> exagerated ---> reduced back to simple lines
This is why "cool kids that can draw" tries to head this way first before properly studying art, because it looks simple.
Side note:
Sure it's "in" since it boomed in europe through the 80's-90's, then catching on in the States, but it was there way before that and had the same status for Japanese kids as comics had for American kids.
It goes way way back (1760-1849).
Even if the current generic manga style has evolved into a commercial "big eyes, big bewbs" status, so has the comics now.
Overused? possibly. Overrated? ... Ever seen the lineart of Gunnm (Battle Angel Alita). This guy knows how to draw.
Scarlette: Nice tips!
I have to say that I'll certainly be sticking to the "classic" comic style simply because I prefer it.
Scarlett, that advice you have given me, like Swissys was VERY much appreciated and certainly helped me make a more informed start. I did have a couple of attempts last night, which did come out better than I thought they might, but still I'm going to practise a little more before I offer something on here for critique.
One thing that did become obvious, and Scarlett I can see why you advised closely examining the musculature of atheletes to perfect it, was a matter of simple relative proportion.
For example take a forearm (if you happen to have a spare one lying about). You wouldn't believe how long it took me to get the proportions between the fleshy bit at the elbow, the wrist and the clenched fist at the end of it anywhere near what might be considered "human". Either the fist was too small, or the fleshy bit didnt taper soon enough. It's the kind of thing that when you look at yourself or other people, you just take for granted, but as soon as you have to try and draw it, it requires amazing amounts of scrutiny.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
[ QUOTE ]
hey.. Hey! HEY!
Don't write manga off this way! o_O;
Theoretically, manga styled art could require even more effort and work than comic art. The link between life drawing and manga is much, much far apart than life drawing and comics.
Therefor, to create a proper manga styled character could use more thought and practice.
The "study" of Japanese style from life to manga, would, in a nutshell, look like this:
Real life ---> exagerated ---> reduced back to simple lines
This is why "cool kids that can draw" tries to head this way first before properly studying art, because it looks simple.
Side note:
Sure it's "in" since it boomed in europe through the 80's-90's, then catching on in the States, but it was there way before that and had the same status for Japanese kids as comics had for American kids.
It goes way way back (1760-1849).
Even if the current generic manga style has evolved into a commercial "big eyes, big bewbs" status, so has the comics now.
Overused? possibly. Overrated? ... Ever seen the lineart of Gunnm (Battle Angel Alita). This guy knows how to draw.
Scarlette: Nice tips!
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I didn't make my point clear enough. You are right that manga isn't a 'lesser' style, and even in manga there is tons of variatons, and yes, there is some crazy **** out there that's truly beautiful.
I was talking about the fact that kids that want to draw just start with the basic Dragon Ball Z or whatever program is on Fox nowadays and never grow out of it (or it takes a long time for them). Alot of these people I've talked to say that everything that is not manga sucks, which really pisses me off, seeing as they're drawing the most common,hideous and unoriginal style of manga.
Have ordered both "How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way" and "How to Draw Better Looking Comic Women" (or something) from Amazon this morning.
*dribbles in anticipation*
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
I don't know the latter, but I'm sure you won't regret the former
@ScarletVengeance
My CoV Portrait Gallery
I've actually ordered the cutting edge one [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
@ScarletVengeance
My CoV Portrait Gallery
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I didn't make my point clear enough. You are right that manga isn't a 'lesser' style, and even in manga there is tons of variatons, and yes, there is some crazy **** out there that's truly beautiful.
I was talking about the fact that kids that want to draw just start with the basic Dragon Ball Z or whatever program is on Fox nowadays and never grow out of it (or it takes a long time for them). Alot of these people I've talked to say that everything that is not manga sucks, which really pisses me off, seeing as they're drawing the most common,hideous and unoriginal style of manga.
[/ QUOTE ]
No worries mate ^__^
I went ahead of myself again, it would seem!
In addition to the "How to" for comic drawing, I've also bought myself a basic drawing techniques book as well - seems a good idea to get an idea for "first prinicples" as it were before I try and draw in a specific style. I'm hoping drawing more mundane items like jugs, vases of flowers and the odd fruit bowl or two, might give me a better eye, for more complex forms like peoples faces!
I'm actually really enjoying this learning process a lot more than I thought I would, and I'm finding myself just doing the odd little sketch at work. Sketched out my clenched fist on my notepad this morning, and pretty well surprised myself on how good it turned out. I thought adding a couple of claws, scrapper stylee would be a nice touch too hehe.
Will have to get round to setting my scanner up so I can show you what I've been up to so that you can offer your critique [img]/uk/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
Latched onto this thread now because of all the wonderful information it's provided. I recently got my urge to draw again, and I'll be using all of your advice as references!
Thanks a lot, top quality advice you have here, I guess one of the things I forgot was to keep trying [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
well be sure to post your latest works to show us how you're getting on
@ScarletVengeance
My CoV Portrait Gallery
Seeing some of the great work on these boards and the US ones, has inspired me to try and draw some of my own CoH characters. However, seeing as I have the artistic ability of a retarded colour blind baboon, I'd be grateful for any pointers that some of the more accomplished artists can give me.
My main problem is one of bodily proportions (and I don't just mean the female breast slider either hehe) - whenever I try and draw limbs or facial features, it's just not right!
The obvious answer is continued practice, but if you could point me in the right direction, or maybe even a good book to get started with, I'd be eternally grateful [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat