The Real Next FotM - Emp/Archery Offender.


Alvan

 

Posted

This is something I've been joking about for a long time, but the more I do, the more intrigued I am about it. Basically an Empathy build without the "Team Comes First" attitude. All the other Defender Primaries are better in doing this, but the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced an Empathy could do it as well.

Did an Empathy Offender in the Test Event, and came convinced that Energy and Electricity aren't really the ways to do it. I know from experience Dark lacks the damage potential. Rad could work, but it's not for me as I already have one rad/rad corruptor. Psi is a bit mixed lot, but could work, Sonic and Archery are both choises that are viable.

The upside in Empathy really is that you can take each and every power from your Secondary, meaning that the Secondary needs to be such that every power there counts. Because the downside is - you need to do damage to compensate for the lack of debuffs. Psi has a couple of attacks that don't really cut it, damagewise. So does Sonic. So that leaves me with the Archery to choose from.

Choise of Epic is an easy one. To boost up damage, I'd need Power Build Up, so //Power for the win.

The Pros:
Good, solid damage
Good range (with the range enhas in place of the second accuracy)
Never the need to worry about Endurance.
Good Self Heal

Cons:
Smashing/Lethal Damage
Lack of DeBuffs, meaning the need to rely on burst damage to bring down foes becomes more essential.
Lack of Control

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Empathy Offender Prototype
Level: 50
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Empathy
Secondary: Archery
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Healing Aura==> Heal() Heal() Heal() Rechg() Rechg() Rechg()
01) --> Snap Shot==> Acc() Dmg() Dmg() Dmg() Range()
02) --> Aimed Shot==> Acc() Dmg() Dmg() Dmg() Range()
04) --> Fistful of Arrows==> Acc() Dmg() Dmg() Dmg()
06) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf()
08) --> Hurdle==> Jump() Jump() Jump()
10) --> Blazing Arrow==> Acc() Dmg() Dmg() Dmg() Range()
12) --> Hasten==> Rechg() Rechg() Rechg()
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump()
16) --> Aim==> Rechg() Rechg() Rechg() TH_Buf() TH_Buf()
18) --> Recovery Aura==> EndMod() EndMod() EndMod() Rechg() Rechg() Rechg()
20) --> Explosive Arrow==> Acc() Range() Dmg() Dmg() Dmg()
22) --> Health==> Heal()
24) --> Stamina==> EndMod() EndMod() EndMod()
26) --> Regeneration Aura==> Rechg() Rechg() Rechg() Heal() Heal() Heal()
28) --> Recall Friend==> Range()
30) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx() EndRdx()
32) --> Ranged Shot==> Dmg() Dmg() Dmg() IntRdx() IntRdx() Acc()
35) --> Stunning Shot==> Acc() Dmg() Dmg() Dmg()
38) --> Rain of Arrows==> Acc() Dmg() Dmg() Dmg() Rechg() Rechg()
41) --> Power Build Up==> Rechg() Rechg() Rechg()
44) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes() DmgRes() DmgRes() EndRdx()
47) --> Total Focus==> Acc() Acc() Dmg() Dmg() Dmg()
49) --> Teleport==> EndRdx()
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Vigilance==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------


[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]

 

Posted

Psi counters most of your cons (the range is better, it's got a lot better control) but suffers from if you hit a psi-resistant enemy, you're screwed.

My Emp/Psi isn't massivley offender built, and can still solo happily on invincible.

The main point I'd make is that with RA no longer perma (or even close) you will need stamina, but I think you can afford to put it later in your build than you have. I didn't admit I actually needed it until after I got into the epics and tried to run mind over body along with telekenisis.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Psi counters most of your cons (the range is better, it's got a lot better control) but suffers from if you hit a psi-resistant enemy, you're screwed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Psi also has better damage overall than archery and shorted animation times ( if you exclude the first power ).

Sonic will probably archery too because of the stacking -res, it has similar animation times and far better control than archery.

Archery really isn't that great, the only real advantage it has is that it has the most powerful single target non-snipe blast for defenders, although the single target attack chain is better than both Energy and Electricity.


@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Archery really isn't that great, the only real advantage it has is that it has the most powerful single target non-snipe blast for defenders, although the single target attack chain is better than both Energy and Electricity.

[/ QUOTE ]
I must admit to being surprised at how much damage my TA/Arch Defender can kick out in the lower levels, noticeably helped by the +acc. No idea if that'll hold true later on, but I wouldn't discount it out of hand.


@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD

"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love

 

Posted

Well its doable, other offenders like rad does it a hell of a lot better though.

Becomming FotM oh dear god I hope not.


50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr

 

Posted

Healing Aura and Radiant Aura heals more or less the same amount of hp and rad offers much more protection and damage potential with the debuffs....but hey...if it floats your boat


SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Healing Aura and Radiant Aura heals more or less the same amount of hp

[/ QUOTE ]I'm quite sure healing aura is more powerful.


 

Posted

Some of the ideas..

a) Empathy means you only need to pick three powers from your primary (even if you do need to 6-slot them all), meaning you can focus fully on the secondary.
b) Good heal, combined with high regen and recovery boosts mean non-stop action even if a single battle would drain you out.
c) Archery means even your Disorient power and Nuke Level power are viable attacks mid-combat. With other Secondaries, the Endurance drain of a Nuke will bring your fighting to a grinding halt every time you fire it, even if you're running recovery aura. (not counting inspiration use) And usually the mez powers in sets are low-damage ones.
d) No real toggles. I have a pet annoyance on my rad controller of the 1 microsecond sleeps/stuns from high level foes that drop everything I've been toggleing and make me put them up again, usually ruining the critical debuffs, making me very dead.

I am not saying Empathy would be any way better than the other Offenders. I know from experience how good the debuffs/buffs from the other sets make their users. What I'm trying here is to create a character with Empathy that is viable as an Offender, broadening the view on what can be done with the Empathy set.

Better play balance would naturally be acchieved by taking a mix of the team-mate buffs and attacks, but as a concept build, I'm going for the extreme option - Anything that isn't directly affecting me isn't worth taking. After this build has been completed and tested otu, it's perhaps time to make compromises.

(Recall Friend is a party-helping power, I know. But the other option is TP Foe, and I'm not wanting any enemies near me if there is a way to avoid it)

The character is now at pre-10 levels, but even at this point I have that Regen Blaster vibe going with 3 good attacks (with good accuracy) and a solid no-miss-chance non-interruptible self heal. Just need to remember mobility, as the melee attacks of most enemies are pretty deadly to a lowbie defender.

PS. About the Range enhas, switching them for Recharges most likely or just move some slots around. As most action will be done at close quarters (but not melee), having non-snipe powers range-boosted by enhas might be a waste of time and slots. Will have to think about that when I hit SO levels.


[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]

 

Posted

I was really uninspired by the archery blast set and deleted my TA/A at 14 to make a TA/Sonic, who is now 13. I just find it really hard to play any secondary other than sonics nowadays. The stacked res debuffs on each blast, plus the control later in the set always make me feel like I'm boosting and supporting the team a lot more than the other sets.

Almost everything in the set debuffs res, including the cone sleep and the disorient. Only shriek has a very short duration debuff, the AoEs res debuffs last long enough for you to get several attack on afterwards. You can siren's song, screech, scream, shriek and then hit something with a shout that does 300 damage in your mid 30s. That's just obscene damage for a non snipe. Hell that's more obscene than my storm/elecs snipe on something with freezing rain on it! I don't even have debuffs in my FF/sonic primary but I know that people attacking the target I'm cycling blasts on are hitting something with 20-80% resist debuffs on it, just from my secondary. Crazy.

Oops sorry for derailing with a sonic love post. I just can't get enough of those zany blasts lately

EDIT: Isn't Power build up, amplify, siren's song, howl, dreadful wail just the best defender nuke you could imagine?


 

Posted

Now if I could only get the sonic secondary with decent sound effects (not really my reason for not taking it, but could as well been)


[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Healing Aura and Radiant Aura heals more or less the same amount of hp

[/ QUOTE ]I'm quite sure healing aura is more powerful.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I'm quite sure the difference is neglible.


SingStar:
"Extremists LOVE to fish to get us annoyed so we break the forum rules."
CRACK68:
"The origin of life wasn't planned either, should all life be declared a bug and wiped out?"
Lionsbane:
"You know me.Ever the realist"

 

Posted

From Character Builder:

Radiant Aura
Acitvation Time: 2,03
Cost: 13
Recharge: 8,0 (Unslotted) / 4,06 (3-slotted)
Heal: 10% (Unslotted) / 19,72% (3-slotted)

Healing Aura:
Acitvation Time: 2,03
Cost: 13
Recharge: 8,0 (Unslotted) / 4,06 (3-slotted)
Heal: 13% (Unslotted) / 25,64% (3-slotted)

Not a big difference, as said.


[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

Almost everything in the set debuffs res, including the cone sleep and the disorient. Only shriek has a very short duration debuff, the AoEs res debuffs last long enough for you to get several attack on afterwards. You can siren's song, screech, scream, shriek and then hit something with a shout that does 300 damage in your mid 30s. That's just obscene damage for a non snipe. Hell that's more obscene than my storm/elecs snipe on something with freezing rain on it! I don't even have debuffs in my FF/sonic primary but I know that people attacking the target I'm cycling blasts on are hitting something with 20-80% resist debuffs on it, just from my secondary. Crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

The sleep doesn't do -res neither does the knockback cone. Hero Builder says they do but the power descriptions don't, I tested the sleep myself. The single target attacks are just short of self stacking unenhanced, with the exception of the first one which just self stacks. The cone is about 8 seconds of debuff. The disorient is about 10 seconds.


@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

The main point I'd make is that with RA no longer perma (or even close) you will need stamina, but I think you can afford to put it later in your build than you have. I didn't admit I actually needed it until after I got into the epics and tried to run mind over body along with telekenisis.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, but if he's going for power epic, he gets conserve power... which you can alternate happily with RA and never have any end problems. no-one NEEDs stamina. if you have three powers to spare, by all means go for it.... if not, there are ways and means to get around end problems.


also, as an emp/rad i can safely say that rad blast is ridiculously weak. it's pitiful. so that'd be [censored] for an empath offender, cause it just doesnt do any damage. maybe with rad debuffs on an enemy it does.... but without....

if i could change my secondary, i would. no hesitation...


 

Posted

Thanks for all the feedback guys, gotten a few levels up, and some things have risen I'm probably going to change from the original idea - First is that I'm getting rid of Recall Friend/Teleport. I'm considering taking Aid Self instead them. AS, Well-slotted (2 Interrupt, 3 heal, 1 recharge) should make things easier when the need to get back up to full health after a bloody battle (for example if the next mob is already charging in) arises. It has way higher heal value than the healing aura and Heal Aura can recharge while the AS is being used. Will naturally take Stimulant as a path-power in case someone somewhere will start asking for Clear Mind .

Other option for TP's replacement is to take Leadership and get added survivability. Will have to see when the time comes (somewhere in the 30s I think). On a Defender, Leadership actually provides useful amount of buff to consider.

Stamina will be moved up a few levels, taking Acrobatics most likely before it. Will be 3-slotting Health to get a better regen rate even when Regen Aura is down. It's all about being on a non-stop offense it seems.

All these changes mean I'll be 4-slotting the regular attacks, 5-slotting TF and Blazing Arrow (since they have slightly worse accuracy). Conserve Power will be taken to alternate between it and Recovery Aura.

At the moment I'm running Hastened single target attack chain of the three first single target arrows with Fistful every now and then to provide some help against bigger mobs. The damage output, supported by a reliable hit rate, is great.

The only downside I can think of at the moment is that the feeling of speed Empathy Offender has is making my Storm/Psi way too passive to play after it.


[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
The sleep doesn't do -res neither does the knockback cone

[/ QUOTE ]

Doh, you're right. I don't know why I thought siren's song had -Res. I even remember reading the mouseover and being shocked that it had that effect. I must have slipped down to screech.

Seems that screech, howl, scream, shriek, shout is the biggest -Res attack chain you come up with outside the nuke? As the shout lands they are 80% debuffed and will hit 100% debuff for a split second after before most of them wear off.