It might have the debuff, but its too weak or something.. I fought Baphomet's AV version once, we had a kinetic in team who was spamming transfusion but it wasnt enough. Only after we got another high-lvl kinetic did we manage to take him down.
Maybe try it with multiple people with midnight grasp?
The affect is still there. The numbers in the Prima guide may be wrong however.
I've fought a few GMs since the changes and don't seem to be able to provide enough -regen on my own to make a difference. It is odd as on paper Dark should come out on top with TG (from you and dark servant and possibly stackable) being perma and howling twilight too. Kin should be next and then Rad. Doesn't work like that in practice tho. 
The best test I had was the other day helping a team fight Jurassik. They already had a Kin there spamming transfusion but his HP wasn't moving. Not much difference when I joined the fight either. They finally recruited a Rad and his HP started to drop straight away. I even stopped using my own -regen powers (to see if it was just the fact that we had three people stacking -regen that was tipping it over the edge) but his health still kept falling.
On a side note, the -regen from howling twilight would seem to be greater than the Prima guide says. I've noticed on a few occasions (and definitely when fighting Jurassik) that as soon as it is used the GMs health drops much more in the 20-30 seconds that it is active.
It's probably just the buff making it seem useless. I did a number of AVs recently on my /Dark Corruptor along with a /Dark MM, and it was certainly helping. Multiple people all using their -regen is very noticeable - with a couple of Darks and a Kin, say, we would be having no trouble. If one person stopped spamming their -regen for some reason, the AVS would start to regen, though.
I could keep an arachnos LT from regenning for 2 minutes with it, that's when I got bored 
It is also very helpful on AV fights, but GM's have HUGE regen rate atm, bigger than AV's, so it is propably too much for one debuffer.
But TG definitely has -regen, and not bad one either.
My pet theory is that the reason that Dark and Kin don't seem to be as effective as Rad against AVs is something to do with stacking. The Kin and Dark powers easily overlap with default slotting but the Rad one needs heavy slotting for recharge. So maybe the Kin/Dark powers don't actually stack from the same source but the Rad one does.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
[ QUOTE ]
I was in Croatoa today, with a group fighting Eochai & Jack and we had a dark/ defender in our team. Said defender kept insisting that Twilight Grasp doesn't have and never has had a -Regen component.
[/ QUOTE ]
From the i4 patch notes:
# Dark Miasma/Twilight Grasp now debuff the targeted foes Regeneration Rate.
# Dark Miasma/Howling Twilight now debuff the targeted foes Regeneration Rate.
The powers ingame description has yet to be updated.
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was in Croatoa today, with a group fighting Eochai & Jack and we had a dark/ defender in our team. Said defender kept insisting that Twilight Grasp doesn't have and never has had a -Regen component.
[/ QUOTE ]
From the i4 patch notes:
# Dark Miasma/Twilight Grasp now debuff the targeted foes Regeneration Rate.
# Dark Miasma/Howling Twilight now debuff the targeted foes Regeneration Rate.
The powers ingame description has yet to be updated.
[/ QUOTE ]
The in game effect for -regen is a set of green rings around the enemy's torso. Twilight grasp, Transfusion and Lingering Radiation all have this effect.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
[ QUOTE ]
My pet theory is that the reason that Dark and Kin don't seem to be as effective as Rad against AVs is something to do with stacking. The Kin and Dark powers easily overlap with default slotting but the Rad one needs heavy slotting for recharge. So maybe the Kin/Dark powers don't actually stack from the same source but the Rad one does.
[/ QUOTE ]
They are all listed as having a 50% debuff. TG and Transfusion are effectively perma even if they don't stack (although all other debuffs on TG do). LR on the other hand isn't quite perma. That should mean that Rad is slightly less effective than the other two but it actually seems to be several times better.
[ QUOTE ]
I could keep an arachnos LT from regenning for 2 minutes with it, that's when I got bored
[/ QUOTE ]
Heh, it was really late when I posted the OP so it didn't occur to me to test TG out on something smaller.
Nice to know it still works on something. 
[ QUOTE ]
From the i4 patch notes:
# Dark Miasma/Twilight Grasp now debuff the targeted foes Regeneration Rate.
# Dark Miasma/Howling Twilight now debuff the targeted foes Regeneration Rate.
The powers ingame description has yet to be updated.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I know very well that they should have a -Regen component. The bit you quoted just drove me to test Twilight Grasp for the first time since I7 was released...
People tend to think rad is best since it's best known regen debuffer, but the lower recharge of TG and Transfusion make kin and dark much better IMO. Unless LR has way higher values.
That's just it, there's something fishy going on because while dark and kin look better on paper, in practise rad seems a lot stronger.
[ QUOTE ]
They are all listed as having a 50% debuff. TG and Transfusion are effectively perma even if they don't stack (although all other debuffs on TG do). LR on the other hand isn't quite perma. That should mean that Rad is slightly less effective than the other two but it actually seems to be several times better.
[/ QUOTE ]
The difference between TG/Transfusion and Lingering Radiation does seem really dramatic based on the GM fights I've been in. I wonder what's happening under the hood...
Maybe the -Regen on LR has longer duration than the listed 30 seconds?
Having used all 3 sets, my guess is that the debuff is (significantly) stronger for LR (despite what Prima says).
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
[ QUOTE ]
Having used all 3 sets, my guess is that the debuff is (significantly) stronger for LR (despite what Prima says).
[/ QUOTE ]
It could be a decimal point wrong, after all defender Lingering Radiation was 10 times as powerful a -recharge in I4 as the Controller version, I think it was a 3.75 -recharge rather than a 0.375 -recharge. Similarly early smoke grenade was 10 times as much of a debuff as it should have been too.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
Well from what i have gathered from teaming is that the -regen debuff in Twilight Grasp has no longer a -regen debuff but only a heal and to hit debuff. I am not sure if this is true but people say that in description it says nothing about -regen anymore.
wel dunno if im right good luck in findin answers
[ QUOTE ]
Well from what i have gathered from teaming is that the -regen debuff in Twilight Grasp has no longer a -regen debuff but only a heal and to hit debuff. I am not sure if this is true but people say that in description it says nothing about -regen anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]The -regen was never added in the description, but it is there.
I was doing Nemesis the other day (we couldn't stop him regenning) and the D3 insisted that his TG didn't have -regen despite my asking him to spam it non stop.
I'm sure the mouseover of the icon has -regen on it doesn't it? And the power itself leaves green circles around the mob's arms and legs.
The mouseover has no -regen component, but the move does. There was a debate on the US forums recently about it, and someone produced a screenshot showing the green rings clearly. They symbolise either a regen buff or debuff, nothing else.
The defender was wrong.
None of the descriptions of the power, long or short, got regen debuffs added when the changes to the power were made, but the regen debuff is there.
I was in Croatoa today, with a group fighting Eochai & Jack and we had a dark/ defender in our team. Said defender kept insisting that Twilight Grasp doesn't have and never has had a -Regen component. This came as a slight surprise to me since I've played a Dark Miasma defender to lvl 50 myself and the Regen debuff has been very useful in taking down several AVs.
I haven't played my 3D Defender for some time, so I decided to join a few GM fights with her and see how that debuff works now.
Looks like it doesn't...
Is it just the I7 mob Regen buff making the TG -Regen (50% debuff according to the Prima Guide, I hear) seem like nothing, or have they removed the effect completely?
Any thoughts on this?