Dominators hold has shorter recharge and longer duration than MM/corruptor ones, plus you get AoE control.
What he said. The dominators single target hold stacks very quickly, most other villain AT's would struggle to stack. Ice/Dar corruptor would have 3 Single Target holds, that would be an exception
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
As far as I know, the magnitude is same as controllers too. I duo my plant/thorns with a sonic/dark corruptor and the only control power he has that I'm jealous of is the cone fear, which is really lovely. The ST hold doesn't even come close to comparing with mine. In fact I think my ST hold is fine, once I get SOs I rarely miss the extra 25% duration that controllers get. I think it really hurts area controls, though. I've been toying with a low level Fire dominator and Flashfire is so bad out of the box that I wonder why I'd even bother to cast it.
You think Flashfire is bad, wait till you see how good it is compared to Cinders pre SOs 
I guess powerboost really helps my single target hold but its still a good power, and yeah I dont notice the difference to a troller's hold even though I know its 25%
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
How bad can Cinders be, 3 seconds? I thought Flashfire and Glacier were just about as pathetic, but at least I had Power Boost to make Glacier somewhat bearable. It seems like the base duration of Flashfire is something like 8-10 seconds? The activation animation feels almost as long and accuracy is pants 
Well I did some math and wet-finger-comparison:
Gravity Distortion [Acc/Acc/Hold/Hold/Rech/Rech]:
- Cost 8.53
- Recharge 3.29
- Duration 25.94
- Act 1.8
(93% accuracy)
Petrifying Gaze [Acc/Acc/Hold/Hold/Rech/Rech]:
- Cost 7.80 (slightly less than GD)
- Recharge 6.59 (+100% recharge)
- Duration 34.59 (+40% duration)
- Act 1.67
(20% less accurate -- 73%)
Bitter Freeze Ray [Acc/Hold/Hold/Hold/Rech/Rech]:
- Cost 15.18 (way more than GD)
- Recharge 8.23 (+150% recharge)
- Duration 15.72 (-40% duration)
- Act 3.7
(53% less accurate -- 40%)
Soul Storm [Acc/Acc/Hold/Hold/Rech/Rech]:
- Cost 10 (slightly more than GD)
- Recharge 4.94 (+50% recharge)
- Duration 17.29 (-20% duration)
- Act 2.1
(0% less accurate -- 93%)
mag 6 holds every 7.47s (cycles), mag 2 hold every 2.49s, 0.80 mag per second (w/FreezeRay)
mag 2 hold every 4.94s, mag 2 hold every 6.59s, 0.40+0.30=0.70 mag per second (wo/FreezeRay)
mag 2 hold every 3.29s, 0.60 mag per second (using GD)
23 second average hold duration (w/FreezeRay)
26 second average hold duration (wo/FreezeRay)
25 second average hold duration (using GD)
Of course, the GD figure semi-doubles with singularity, if you can get it in place, but I believe grav with sing is the only Dominator that can stack two holds, correct me if I'm wrong.
A /dark corruptor with a PPP hold can come out ahead of a dominator, if I did my math right. It's not by much, but they can! Bitter Freeze Ray in fact mucks things up more than it really helps, because it's innacurate, end heavy, and short duration.
And because I'm bored I'll go look at comparable control powers.
- Black Hole is nearly as good as Dimension Shift
- Dark Servant is a pet as is Singularity. Dark Servant Heals, Singularity does not. Both cast their respective holds. Sing casts crush and lift, Dark Servant debuffs. Seems almost even, roughly.
- /grav has the AoE hold, but it's been nerfed, and I wonder if /dark's Fearsome Stare might not be more useful than Gravity Distortion Field due to simple availability.
- Wormhole teleports and disorients. Howling Twilight deals damage, disorients, slows, -recharges the foes and resurrects any fallen team members, but recharges twice as slowly.
- Crushing Field - if you're that attached to it (I loathe this power) - can potentially be at least partially replaced by taking Web Envelope from Black Scorpion's PPP.
- The rest is soft control versus debuffs.
I dunno. Right now I'm thinking grav/ just sucks. ;_;
Not that I'm trying to convince people to stop playing (grav) doms and all roll corruptors cause they're better, but at this point I just feel pretty down about my character. Why bother when a /dark corruptor can do exactly what she does, while putting out better damage with a better attack chain and scourge? Of course there's domination, but I can't recall the last time I hit it, damn dom-unfriendly teams.
I knew grav/ wasn't the best choice for control, but I'd expected to match up better in this comparison. I also realize the /dark would bloom late compared to the grav/, but I tend to play with level 50 in mind since that's where we all inevitably get stuck, and that's when I believe you get the best picture of the relative powerlevels.
Are these tested numbers, or out some planner? Only my gut feeling is that the duration of Petrifying Gaze is not nearly that good. I could be wrong however but that number seems very surprising both in principle and the impression I have of it ingame.
On the other hand, I do think Fearsome Stare is a more useful power than an AoE hold, especially if you lack Power Boost. A Power Boosted AoE hold with Domination is pretty magnificent, though, and really highlights how incredibly strong Dominators are with Domination up.
Oh, and Jack Frost from Ice Control has a hold as well but he's a very erratic pet and there's no telling if he'll use it.
[ QUOTE ]
Petrifying Gaze [Acc/Acc/Hold/Hold/Rech/Rech]:
- Cost 7.80 (slightly less than GD)
- Recharge 6.59 (+100% recharge)
- Duration 34.59 (+40% duration)
- Act 1.67
(20% less accurate -- 73%)
[/ QUOTE ]There is NO WAY that duration can be right, it's most likely the pre-NCHN (Non-Controller-Hold-Nerf) duration.
Also, BFR has a HUGE animation time which severely limits it's usefulness as anything other than an alpha.
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, the GD figure semi-doubles with singularity, if you can get it in place, but I believe grav with sing is the only Dominator that can stack two holds, correct me if I'm wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]You can stack multiple GD's 
I stack multiple Blocks Of Ice, Jack Frost sometimes adds to my holding too.
PG seems way out to me
Oh and back to the Flashfire question, Cinders and Glacier are indeed worse than the duration on Flashfire, of course I always use powerboost before Glacier to make it feel like a real hold
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
These numbers are from SherkSilver's CoH / CoV Character Builder, which already has thugs and some numbers on PPPs updated.
Even if the numbers are wrong and it lasts as long as GD I'll still be glum over the fact my main may have been way better as a /dark corruptor or mastermind. But I suppose I only have my obsession with the grav powerset to blame for that.
[ QUOTE ]
Even if the numbers are wrong and it lasts as long as GD I'll still be glum over the fact my main may have been way better as a /dark corruptor or mastermind. But I suppose I only have my obsession with the grav powerset to blame for that.
[/ QUOTE ]It's shorter duration than GD AFAIK. I know a dominator can hold a single target way better than MM, I can barely keep one application of PG perma slotted with 3 hold and 2 rech. I need henches to get a boss held.
Yep I've proven a Dominator can hold a single target better than an MM, I think PG is well out. Durration is no where close to recharge with 3 holds in it, only becomes close with 2 recharges in. Where as Block Of Ice, and GD I assume too, has the same recharge as duration from the start, or close anyway
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
To be fair your MMs wouldn't have had their second PPP hold yet, right?
Nope, but that will bring me maybe to same strength than grav dom with GD, and when you give the dom sing (15 levels earlier than I get the PPP hold, I might add ), the dom still comes out on top. Plus, you can stack GDF with GD when you have it available and have to hold a boss quickly.
Not to mention that the MM will have to spam his holds a lot more, leaving less time for other powers.
Aside from the fact that domination gives double mag I'd rather have one very quickly stacking hold than 2 very badly stacking ones, I can get 4 applications of my hold on someone with hasten running, 6 with power boost too, I dont think a MM will ever equal that, oh and you have sings, probably a damn sight better holder than the whole /dark MM
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Not really spamming, as the hold recharge is fairly long, WAY longer than dom.
Its a bit like saying I spam Ice Slick, thats the level of comparison
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
I'm just wondering, again, since I can't find any figures on magnitudes of various holds, am I correct in my assumption that dominators are kind of getting a raw deal when it comes to single target holding?
First off, we only have a mag 2 hold where controllers have 3. I know that much. Now, I'm pretty sure things like Petrifying Gaze are mag 2 also, since mag 1 makes them useless, and the PPPs with their vaunted supersized portion of extra power give single holds too, assuming also mag 2.
Now my grav/enr has one single target hold. And a singularity. To stack two holds I need to maneuver my sing so it hits the target I want, which isn't always possible, and hope it doesn't mess up its chain - which thankfully rarely happens - then stack my hold on top. This is, since I can't find figures, I'm assuming a mag 4 hold.
Now, I don't know about all the other powersets, but I know /dark corruptors and masterminds actually get quite a control bang for their buck. They can doublestack two holds, PPP and one from their secondary, without maneuvering or tricks which have the great potential for failure, to doublestack to a mag 4 hold.
I don't know, unless you get domination up as a dom, this seems kinda like a raw deal. I don't get added scourge damage, or 6 pets to guard my heiney, and Statesman made sure that AoE control is only bursts and non maintainable. Even with Dimension Shift to compliment the nerfed AoE hold I'm relying mostly on single target holds; just like dear States wanted.
Personally, I'm hoping I'm wrong on my numbers. I have enough of a lack of motivation to play my Auggy as it is.