If you want pools to add survivability, get aid self before anything else, it adds way more sustainable DPS than the others.
From that list I'd say Combat jumping if your getting SJ anyway and weave if you REALLY want it...(I don't see the point but its up to you) but as suggested get aid self.
I think you can find more useful abilities in your primary and secondary powersets then you'd end up with from grabbing lots of different pools. Ice in particular is very power choice intensive, you may well end up wanting the whole bloomin' lot.
You can learn 24 powers over the course of your career. Assuming you want Fitness to Stamina and spend the minimum two picks on a travel power, that leaves 22 powers from your primary, secondary and epic pools vying for only 19 slots. You can cross three of 'em out before you even start thinking about what you'd be willing to give up for each additional pool power you take.
Hasten adds more survivability than the other powers you have listed
I like weave personally... the more defence you can cram in, the proprortionally more effective your Aid Self can be (which is the priority).
If you have Aid Self, weave actually is better than tough.
Hasten? Cant see how that can help a "pure" tank. Taunt recharges plenty fast enough, I can only really see it helping with Hoarfrost and Hibernate, but with 3SO in these, they should be up enough for when needed. I can only see Hasten being really worth it if you a playing a more skranker build myself.
[ QUOTE ]
Hasten? Cant see how that can help a "pure" tank. Taunt recharges plenty fast enough, I can only really see it helping with Hoarfrost and Hibernate, but with 3SO in these, they should be up enough for when needed. I can only see Hasten being really worth it if you a playing a more skranker build myself.
[/ QUOTE ]Hoarfrost, hibernate, aid self, your AoE attack (which you need both to take more aggro, and mobs to die quicker), ice patch (if you're /ice), and fireball (if you're */*/fire, it's good pullling and aggroing tool). Also, hasten allows you to slot for more end than rech, meaning that you're likely to stay fighting longer.
[ QUOTE ]
Hasten adds more survivability than the other powers you have listed
[/ QUOTE ]
Before i read the rest of the thread me luvvy the hasten. It sure is nice to have dull pain come about as often as possible on my invuln, same with hoarfrost and even healing flames (although the haste is for consume as my firetank doesnt have fitness pool) but anyway on stonetanks spurts of recharge adds dps as well as earth embrace coming about often is also nice. The more often you have the heal and the extra hp the better i say! Its more tankerlike as you take more damage of any damage type. The survivability it helps to add for the eps it takes is just great.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
on my last respec with me ice tank i found quite a few powers i didn't want to take from the primary/secondary pools. perphaps thats just me though.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hasten? Cant see how that can help a "pure" tank. Taunt recharges plenty fast enough, I can only really see it helping with Hoarfrost and Hibernate, but with 3SO in these, they should be up enough for when needed. I can only see Hasten being really worth it if you a playing a more skranker build myself.
[/ QUOTE ]Hoarfrost, hibernate, aid self, your AoE attack (which you need both to take more aggro, and mobs to die quicker), ice patch (if you're /ice), and fireball (if you're */*/fire, it's good pullling and aggroing tool). Also, hasten allows you to slot for more end than rech, meaning that you're likely to stay fighting longer.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just my opinion but I would disagree.. for an ice/ice tank anyway:
If you cant grab 95% of aggro between chilling embrace and taunt, there is something wrong, so I cant see how a faster cycling attack cycle would aid "Tanking".
Ice Patch can be permenant with 1 SO Recharge, so little to be gained from hasten. I put two in, just so I have a bit of flexibility if i need to move, but thats overkill really.
Hoarfrost, Hibernate and Aid Self all benefit from hasten. But with 3 SO Recharge in each they cycle pretty fast.
If you are looking at "Pure" tanking, it is only these three powers that gain anything from hasten, and IMHO they recharge pretty well, and, again, hasten isnt always up even 3 slotted.
So, I would say that tough or weave is better for a "pure" tank than hasten.
I dont think faster cycling attacks mean anything to an ice tank with taunt to be honest. Aggro is usually 90%+, and I can acheive 100% in a good team (unless there are lots of flying / teleporting mobs) without using gauntlet at all.
Of course, it is usefull for upping your damage, and I suppose a faster cycling End drain from Energy absorbtion might add a degree of control.
As for no needing to slot for recharge, and slotting end? well, end can be a problem when hasten crashes, and you are using powers faster anyway... and with energy absorbtion I never find end a massive problem anyway.
Im not knocking hasten, I just think if you are purely looking at "tanking" i.e. aggro grabbing and surviving, its very low down on the list of priorities.
[ QUOTE ]
If you are looking at "Pure" tanking, it is only these three powers that gain anything from hasten, and IMHO they recharge pretty well, and, again, hasten isnt always up even 3 slotted.
[/ QUOTE ]
Energy Absorbtion! You mention it later, but I'm shocked no one mentioned it before...it's a huge help to your own endurance, it can suck the fight out of entire groups of enemies in prolonged confrontations, and it has a decent radius for drawing aggro. It boosts your defense, and it can stack with itself. Hasten'll also be helping Aid Self if that's the route that's taken.
[ QUOTE ]
So, I would say that tough or weave is better for a "pure" tank than hasten.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think Tough and Weave both do offer a lot, but given this whole "pure tank" business - which I'm finding pretty silly, it must be said - you would need to take an attack to pick Tough. Only then could you even think about Weave. Hasten is only a single choice, and it can be the pre-requisite for your travel power if need be.
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think faster cycling attacks mean anything to an ice tank with taunt to be honest.
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. I don't have Hasten, but it's very very tempting. Faster cycling attacks are extremely helpful - I don't generally need them to secure the aggro, but a good offense helps my defenses. I can guarantee that the foe I either defeat outright or knock out of the battle for several seconds every time Knockout Blow recycles helps my survivability far more than an extra percentage point defense from stealth would, or anything like that. A tanker who neglects attacks to try to build up his defenses is only trading a fun and active way to survive for a slow and tedious one.
So in some strange way, I actually think I agree with you. Boxing is solid and regular, if not particularly impressive damage, and Tough and Weave are both good powers. Weave stacks with Ice's existing defenses to sure up protection even further (though another application of Energy Absorbtion stacked thanks to Hasten might be better under many situations) and Tough gives Ice some physical resistance for those big S&L hits that are sometimes gonna land.
Well my logic is that the best power an ice tank can have is aid self. The more defence you have, not only is it harder to hit you, its easier to regenerate.
I was playing the Test room RV event with an ice/ice. I wont bother you with build, but I had all armours 3xSO, tough 3xSO, ice patch, and aid self. No weave (which would be my lvl 41 choice). I could usually stand an assault by up to 8 villians before they got bored and moved on. The minimum it took to take me down was 5 - which i think involved being mezzed by three dominators and getting spanked by 2 assassin strikes and follow up blows.
Could I get anyone else though - well i took down a fair few stalkers who were sillly enough to attack me - then laugh at them backpeddling at a snails pace and slipping over on an ice slick whilst I slowly plodded their health down. I got a few other squishies.
Well, thats all a bit arrogant I suppose. But Im actually a pretty bad PvPer, Im just saying it the combination of high defence, ice patch, and aid self makes you an incredibly hard target. And to back it up, I played on the villians side and I found Ice tanks murderous to take down. Granite is pretty hard but you can wean them down and perhaps end drain them (and they are never realy a threat being so slow), but Ice tanks were just murder. Even if you started to dent their health they could hibernate and you start from scratch. They are hard to escape and hard to slow, its very difficult end draining them - In fact the only ice tank I saw fall in the entire event was me (under heavy heavy bombardment). I would actually say they are too overpowered in PvP - Hibernate just recycles too fast.
[ QUOTE ]
I would actually say they are too overpowered in PvP - Hibernate just recycles too fast.
[/ QUOTE ]
DON'T START SAYING THINGS LIKE THAT!!!!!!! 
Jesus!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would actually say they are too overpowered in PvP - Hibernate just recycles too fast.
[/ QUOTE ]
DON'T START SAYING THINGS LIKE THAT!!!!!!!
Jesus!
[/ QUOTE ]
:S but they can't attack like that...
[ QUOTE ]
Hasten? Cant see how that can help a "pure" tank. Taunt recharges plenty fast enough
[/ QUOTE ]
i have hasten and i still 2 recharge my taunt because haste is not for that or for any of my attacks its purely for my long recharge powers but does at times offer a kill before being killed situation.
[ QUOTE ]
I can only really see it helping with Hoarfrost and Hibernate, but with 3SO in these, they should be up enough for when needed. I can only see Hasten being really worth it if you a playing a more skranker build myself.
[/ QUOTE ]
A scranker is someone with no taunt capability trying to keep mobs focused on them. Haste cant make a scranker out of any tanker who has an aura and especially out of any tanker that has a taunt and a aura and uses them. Its for having the heal to take the alphas more often and having 40% more healthpoints which counts against all types of damage. It more often means you take more burst damage no matter what the damage type and make other AT's support roles that much easier.
On an ice tanker weave is a worthwhile powerchoice as a boost in a tohit calculation. i dont have weave on my invuln because its unscaleable atm whereas resistance isnt and i wouldnt expect my super reflex to avoid anything +3 running passives only so on firetanks i really cant see it doing too much.
[ QUOTE ]
If you are looking at "Pure" tanking, it is only these three powers that gain anything from hasten, and IMHO they recharge pretty well, and, again, hasten isnt always up even 3 slotted.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hasten does not need to be constantly up with long recharge powers. Pure tanking about getting hit, taking hits as much as possible and knowing and respecting the enemy well enough to do it right and like i say the more often you have increased hp the more you can do it high burst damagewise and normally you only take an initial knock in damage and then the mob is debuffed, controlled and attacked and then dead.
[ QUOTE ]
I suppose a faster cycling End drain from Energy absorbtion might add a degree of control.
[/ QUOTE ]
Most tanks without endurance are shortlived unless your an invuln of course running unstoppable, being able to have that extra chance of battling end drain is a good thing after all the endurance bar is sometimes more threatened prior to the healthbar.
[ QUOTE ]
end can be a problem when hasten crashes, and you are using powers faster anyway... and with energy absorbtion I never find end a massive problem anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]
The end drop isnt that bad for the duration it offers, its small, much smaller than a rage crash and yet /ss tankers still use rage, rage is an even better form of psuedo hasten though for attacks as it speeds the kill rate (your attacks do alot more for there endurance cost as well) and you can always get conserve energy anyway.
Having +hp more often via the hoarfrost and haste does go towards taking the usual initial high burst damage regardless of accuracy or damagetype.
Fight pool does offer an advantage in overall sustaining damage over time but you dont have to do things like run around through a herd in order to herd, there doesnt have to always be alphas to take or sit in a fight for long and still be that tanker with whom no one elses health bar has moved on a good team. Taking tough and weave and running them could mean the boost in res and def you have gained from them is lost through the lack of damage output you have because you have sat in the fight for longer. I used to have it on my invuln, i may get it back, it will make her worse in a pvp zone at the cost of being just as useful in pve imo.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
my first "high" tank, 33 atm (2 june). My PoV is that ice is actually really really fun. Sure Ice isn't as "dmg soaking" as stone, but I've recently experienced Hibernate and well, I'd say that power really turns the tide in fights. Personally using CJ/SJ, and doesn't really considering other pool sets except self aid (3 self heals are better than 2, rite? 
)
afaik, ice tanks is the best AT to steal and hold AoE aggro compared to the other sets, tho I would like "granite power" thingie so I can withstand the darn aggro I pull, but with some finess and some working one comes by alive after each fight.
Dunno if my question answers the first question, but thought I'd give my PoV of my fave char, and well... having a blast at the moment.
(from here on, the jibbrish useless ramble ends, please continue!)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hasten? Cant see how that can help a "pure" tank. Taunt recharges plenty fast enough, I can only really see it helping with Hoarfrost and Hibernate, but with 3SO in these, they should be up enough for when needed. I can only see Hasten being really worth it if you a playing a more skranker build myself.
[/ QUOTE ]Hoarfrost, hibernate, aid self, your AoE attack (which you need both to take more aggro, and mobs to die quicker), ice patch (if you're /ice), and fireball (if you're */*/fire, it's good pullling and aggroing tool). Also, hasten allows you to slot for more end than rech, meaning that you're likely to stay fighting longer.
[/ QUOTE ]
You missed out the best one. Energy Absorbtion.
With Hasten up and 3 SOs it recharges every 22 seconds and it has a 45 seconds duration, so provided you are surrounded by enough enemies, that's a full end bar every 22 seconds and you are double stacked with it's defence buff. Also it provides a reasonable taunt effect and an end drain too.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
Would it be worth stocking up on the Pool Powers for a pure tank build!? Stealth, Hover, Combat Jump, Weave & Maneuvers... or just worth finding a duo find with 3 def in fort