Don't play by the rules


Afulia

 

Posted

I'v been reading these PvP posts for some time and can't help but see a pattern forming. Remember while a go when there was this thread about making code of conducts and stuff like that? It raised different opinions, but it was generally agreed that without Devs making some baselines it would never work because how each of us perceive the game differently.

Every now and then someone posts something that they didn't like or found amusing and is followed by an avalanche of different opinions. That’s fine, but what finally made me write about this subject was a little comment generally saying something like this "you will lose your reputation acting that way". There are few regular PvP players who are starting to form their own CoC and imposing it to other players.

You might lose your reputation in their eyes but remember that they are not the majority although the amount of noice they make may make it seem like that. Don't listen to those comments. Agreeing to play by someones rules will only develop an unhealthy elitists atmosphere where if you dont play by the rules you will be frowned upon… or worse.

Remember that your tactics are not any worse than the tactis of someone else. Feel free to play the game how you like. Gloat over a dead body or be polite. It’s your choise. Sure there will be conflicts of opinions but that’s only what they are, opinions. No right or wrong there. But also remember since this is community that every action will have reaction. Don’t come crying if your drone tping earned you some nasty comments or your politeness was rewarded with a debt.

Don't judge it's not your job. Have a opinion instead. And most of all.. Be tolerant!


Fighting l33t since 1974
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Sanity Inc
@8Qbit

 

Posted

Seconded.


 

Posted

I stated in a previous thread that when someone was openly mocking someone for getting debt on broadcast in the PVP zones they would rapidly lose their popularity, I stand by that, I dont consider this a CoC, its basic manners and logic. Such behaviour is not condusive to a pleasant playing environment and I can see how such behaviour could easily breech the EULA depending on what was being said, the same can be said for gloating depending on words used. I would hope that, with the recent bug that messed up the banned chat function (which brought it to our attention that it really exists) that the foul language and trash talking over broadcast would start to wane.

Im all for "w00ts" when you tag someone but if someone was mocking someone on broadcast for debt (unless you ahve a damned good reason) They will start dying much more frequently.

And as you say, its peoples choice so I guess you are saying that people can remorselessly hunt down the same person who was making the atmosphere unpleasant over and over again and this is a valid tactic.

Everyone has their tactics and I wont team with people who do certain things like droning as its dull, annoying (long walk) and takes their bounty away from me, if they are close I can kill them, if they get droned they are no use to me. But tactics dont really bother me, more its attitude over the chat, play how you want (without greifing) but I dont think its too much to be polite, even in a roleplay environment.


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Posted

It's all about manners.

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Don't judge it's not your job. Have a opinion instead. And most of all.. Be tolerant!

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I think it is my job to judge a person if he's insulting me. Why should i be tolerant to that person ?


 

Posted

I'm agree!


 

Posted

Taken from the EULA

"content as determined by NC Interactive at its sole discretion that is harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortuous, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable; "

Pretty ambiguous and based upon perception even so I personally think people should abide by this official "code of conduct"


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Posted

I believe you should stick to tactics that work and are fun for you, even if other players see them as "dirty". I think gloating is a bit over the top unless done in a friendly manner "ha! got you at last! nasty villain :P".


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Posted

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Im all for "w00ts" when you tag someone but if someone was mocking someone on broadcast for debt (unless you ahve a damned good reason) They will start dying much more frequently.


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tag someone? What are you, some ex-LQ player or something!?


 

Posted

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And as you say, its peoples choice so I guess you are saying that people can remorselessly hunt down the same person who was making the atmosphere unpleasant over and over again and this is a valid tactic.

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That is exactly what I'm saying. As I said every action has a reaction. You are of course free to get your revenge.

What I was saying was not really that you or anyone else shouldn't have your own code of conduct. It's just that I may not share your views on those and you having your opinion doesn't automatically make mine wrong. Even if my opinion would be minority.

I was just encouraging people to play as they feel is fun.

I hate being droned or ganked several times by big groups as much as anyone else. But what I don't do is to judge the way you play. Who am I to say what is fun for you. I may have an opinion that what you did to me wasnt very "sporting" but you might think it was fun. Whos right?

And since NONE of us can be absolutely right about what is right or what is wrong (although many here seem to act like they are) theres no point going running around judging people. Thats what I mean about having an opinion and not judging. Again we may share a different opinion about semantics of the word "judge" :P

And point that [censored] finger at me and I'll [censored] bite it off!


Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit

 

Posted

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I was just encouraging people to play as they feel is fun.


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Some peoples idea of fun seems to be to upset other people in any way they can. Ironicly, I tryed some online poker for a change and got the same brand of morons there.


My MA IDs:
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Posted

Surely if everyone is free to do what they want then judging is indeed covered Besides which making a judgement on something is human nature and we do it on everything and anything "that looks nice", "I dont fancy eating that", "ick who buys a gold coloured car" etc etc.

In essence arent u judging the judges?

And as I pointed out there is a far reaching EULA in operation and given its ambiguity people should work even harder to stay within it, just my opinion of course

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I was just encouraging people to play as they feel is fun.

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As marq said, many people just go to cause trouble and swear over broadcast which is against the official EULA


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Posted

I do agree with you about the part with EULA. Those are clearly defined rules for this game and should be obeyed but still it's not your or anyone elses job here to start to pass judgements based on your interpretation of those rules. If you feel like someone is breaking EULA you should petition them and leave the judgement for those who get paid to do so.

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Surely if everyone is free to do what they want then judging is indeed covered Besides which making a judgement on something is human nature and we do it on everything and anything "that looks nice", "I dont fancy eating that", "ick who buys a gold coloured car" etc etc.

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In my defination those are opinions. They become judgements when you start thinking that having a gold coloured car is punishable action.

Judgement is something that by definition leads to punishment or reward.

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In essence arent u judging the judges?

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Well yeah... I may be walking a thin line here but I still want to emphasise that it is not your place to pass judgements specially in a playground that you havent built.

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As marq said, many people just go to cause trouble and swear over broadcast which is against the official EULA

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I know many players there are really "unsporting" and only come to PvP areas to grief people but wheres the limit? Who defines griefing you? You can only express your opinion not define it because it not for you to do so. Or if you want to define it you cant expect others to agree. Ultimately the only rules here are they ones that EULA states.


Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit

 

Posted

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In my defination those are opinions. They become judgements when you start thinking that having a gold coloured car is punishable action.

Judgement is something that by definition leads to punishment or reward.

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I strongly believe that throwing insults at other players should be punished.


 

Posted

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In my defination those are opinions. They become judgements when you start thinking that having a gold coloured car is punishable action.

Judgement is something that by definition leads to punishment or reward.

[/ QUOTE ]

I strongly believe that throwing insults at other players should be punished.

[/ QUOTE ]

I on the other hand couldn't care less.


Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit

 

Posted

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In my defination those are opinions. They become judgements when you start thinking that having a gold coloured car is punishable action.

Judgement is something that by definition leads to punishment or reward.

[/ QUOTE ]

I strongly believe that throwing insults at other players should be punished.

[/ QUOTE ]

I on the other hand couldn't care less.

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If you don't care about insults why do you care about what others think of you ? It seems to me you care enough to make a forum post about it and say we're all wrong for thinking less of people that behave in an unsporting manner in PvP.


 

Posted

Thirded! If possible?

I'm all for playful banter & most crowds often commend someone on a hunt/fight etc.. but you get the morons that abuse the channels.

Any foul language should be petitioned, be it PvE or PvP, (among friends I'm sure is upto them).

9/10 of my PvP eperiences have been a great laugh & met some awesome ppl, some of which could give advice on my build etc.

The official EULA, as quoted earlier, is the 'CoC' all players must adhere to. Do NOT let others tell you how to play, you play as you wish.

Abuse should not be tolerated, we all play for fun, it's a shame the minority is getting this much attention on the forums again.


"Like War_Hero said, leave it as it is, it toughens up the softies." - Naz Nomad

Union Heroes
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Union Villains
McCabe - Co-leader of The Rogue Knights

Defiant - Supreme Hero

 

Posted

you seem to be operating under some form of misaprehension, if it is of my opinion that someone needs to be taught a lesson in manners this is my right to do it so long as I am not breaching the EULA, a judgement is just an opinion and there is no real difference, its just semantics and your own "opinion" on what a "judgement" is. To petition someone you must have "judged" someone to have done something that is worthy of petitioning, you are contradicting yourself really, dont judge but do petition.

if people act like jerks in the zone then they will be treated as jerks. Only thing I have a problem with is abuse and profanity over the broadcast which I think is out of order and is clearly against the EULA, I dont think many could argue over the definition of vulgarity. Who defines it? NCSoft and I have seen some offenders attitudes change in the last few weeks so I am actually beleiving that they may be doing something with petitions.


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Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In my defination those are opinions. They become judgements when you start thinking that having a gold coloured car is punishable action.

Judgement is something that by definition leads to punishment or reward.

[/ QUOTE ]

I strongly believe that throwing insults at other players should be punished.

[/ QUOTE ]

I on the other hand couldn't care less.

[/ QUOTE ]


If you don't care about insults why do you care about what others think of you ? It seems to me you care enough to make a forum post about it and say we're all wrong for thinking less of people that behave in an unsporting manner in PvP.

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Of course I care what other people think or say about me... to an extent. I don't claim to be above the influence of your opinions. I just don't share the all the same values that you do.

And no. I don't say it's wrong for you to think less of people who you don't like. Thats only natural. What I do say is that you shouldn't declare an ultimate truth that you are right and he/she is wrong, because your truth or mine are not the only ones around here.


Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit

 

Posted

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I was just encouraging people to play as they feel is fun.


[/ QUOTE ]
Oh no, you did NOT just say that!
As it has already been pointed out, many peoples idea of fun, often directly falls under harassment. The times when it doesnt fall under harassment, it falls under acting like a complete jerk. There has to be a balance of responsibility for a persons actions, to go with that freedom.

I generally go by the in-game rules. If its petitionable behaviour, I petition. If its not, I play. Occasionally, i'll gripe too.

Thing is, one of my earliest PVP experiences, was with someone just having their own brand of fun. It almost caused Stalk-obot to put me on ignore, too. A group of villains were waiting outside the hero base. Great I thought, no way I can fight my way out for now. Then a particular villain runs up and stands outside the front entrance to our base (SC), staring directly in. Given I didnt have time to right-click check his powers to see if he had TP Foe, I made a snap decision to remove the threat, and wormholed him into a nearby drone. Bear in mind, that drone debt was removed at this point, I never droned someone whilst it gave debt.

As a result, he started to do the CoC enforcement thing, telling me that what I was doing is frowned upon and demanding an apology. When he didnt get one, he decided to openly broadcast to his teammates (who were stood right next to him just outside of the hero base), about what a bell-end I was, or a t*sser, etc. Of course, said group then used some 'valid' tactics on me. Making me their only target, trying every manuever possible to TP me out of the safe zone, KO me, then follow up with broadcast insults. They didnt just KO me once for the TP, they KO'ed me repeatedly. Leaving the hospital was thankfully easy, because I happen to have PFF, but I didnt want to be forced out of the zone because I couldnt de-PFF without being slaughtered, or lobbed into NPCs (which im certain they would have, if there were any hero-hostile ones around). Once I decided to ignore the 'ringleader' who I droned, the others continued to go at the broadcast taunts. Even when I wasnt talking to them, they'd jump on me whenever i'd talk to someone else on broadcast.
"Are you still here? Get out"
"Shut up telegank"
"Nobody wants to hear you talk"
Which essentially pushed the better part of my messages out of the broadcast. I had taken to hovering behind the wall that led to Steel Canyon, in my PFF, until they decided to give up. A good few times two of their stalkers jumped through to the zone and tried to AS me, none were successful of course. After ignoring another one of the guys group, I decided to come out. I thought things were going well until I heard an uninvolved villain say something along the lines of : "Why, Archy is ganking?". Deliberately trying to build a bad rep for me too, yum.

Now, finally to the point. After all this, Stalk-obot said something along the lines of "Stop whining", whilst I was growling back at the ones I didnt ignore. I had already lost track of the names of that guys group, and thought Stalk-obot was one of them. So naturally, I bit his head off too. They finally managed to get me riled up enough where I snapped at the next person being rude. To me "Stop whining" is one of the rudest things you can say, given that situation, so he got a paragraph of return-fire that wasnt exactly deserved.

Of course, I just slapped myself softly on the forehead and grumbled, when Stalk-obot said something like "That was uncalled for", and actually made an attempt at justifying what he said (rather than outright flaming me). I apologised, but I think he already moved out of the zone by the time I sent it. Thankfully, Fliknife was also a friend of Obot, and I got taken off ignore.

Long story short?
A persons 'own brand of fun' isnt necessarily what the PVP zone is there for. I dont expect people to march to my own personal code of conduct, but I expect some [censored] basic respect, the same kind you show a stranger when you pass them in the street. The sad thing is, that they somehow managed to justify all of what they did, because "If he asked me not to attack, I wouldnt have". BS.

Its just a shame we cant do the name-and-shame deal here, because i've heard some of my PVP buds say he's an okay guy, but I seriously beg to differ. People wonder why im a jaded gamer? I simply cannot stand vultures, circling and pecking, tearing strips off a person until they get enraged, then the target gets branded the bad-guy. Unfortunately, I only petitioned that ringleader for swearing, as the rules are still pretty hazy on what you CAN petition someone for. What exactly would you call that kind of event? How could you summerise it in the petition box, in a manner that it wouldnt just be discarded as a "frustrated, pointless, not-worth-investigating petition"?


 

Posted

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you seem to be operating under some form of misaprehension, if it is of my opinion that someone needs to be taught a lesson in manners this is my right to do it so long as I am not breaching the EULA, a judgement is just an opinion and there is no real difference, its just semantics and your own "opinion" on what a "judgement" is. To petition someone you must have "judged" someone to have done something that is worthy of petitioning, you are contradicting yourself really, dont judge but do petition.

if people act like jerks in the zone then they will be treated as jerks. Only thing I have a problem with is abuse and profanity over the broadcast which I think is out of order and is clearly against the EULA, I dont think many could argue over the definition of vulgarity. Who defines it? NCSoft and I have seen some offenders attitudes change in the last few weeks so I am actually beleiving that they may be doing something with petitions.

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I dont think I'm operationg under any misaprehension. Lets not get lost here. "Juding" is hard to define. I judge/evaluate situations all the time. In a way every decicion has come from judgement/evaluation of a situation. It is in your right to pass your "punishment" to whom ever you want, but it is not for you to tell if someone else is doing the right thing or the wrong thing. You cant see how he/she sees the thing you are arguing about. You do decicions based on your own evaluations and so does the other side. What im really really hard trying to say is that there are not absolute truths, only point of views.

Im sorry if you cant follow my line of thought. My brains may not be the state of the art but I think there is distinct difference about how you define judgement and how I define it. Before someone gets broken nose, lets just agree that we disagree


Fighting l33t since 1974
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Sanity Inc
@8Qbit

 

Posted

Oh, and before I click out of this thread for now, I had to petition that same person, under his hero alt (of the same name), for killstealing, and follow-killstealing/mocking more than once. I have a lot of alts, but I had bad meetings with him at level 15 and under (the Hollows, and around Atlas). Unless of course the villain and the hero who used the same name are completely different people, but I doubt that.

Though I have to say, PVP has been a lot better since I started visiting back recently, this kind of behaviour summerises why I left it :P


 

Posted

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A persons 'own brand of fun' isnt necessarily what the PVP zone is there for. I dont expect people to march to my own personal code of conduct, but I expect some [censored] basic respect, the same kind you show a stranger when you pass them in the street.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that sums up things up perfectly well and echoes my own feelings on the subject.

Archelon (QiSnake) will be the first to admit he can be prickly but was one of the good ones, following our initial meeting that was less than fun we had a load of fun times in Sirens and its sad that he doesnt frequent the zone anymore. I myself have only just started going back in the pvp zones as all the crap over broadcast was realy started to grate on my nerves, we all get annoyed at one point or another.


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Posted

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
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I was just encouraging people to play as they feel is fun.



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Oh no, you did NOT just say that!

[/ QUOTE ]

You're absolutely right, I DID NOT say that.


"Like War_Hero said, leave it as it is, it toughens up the softies." - Naz Nomad

Union Heroes
War Borg - Leader of The Paragon Knights

Union Villains
McCabe - Co-leader of The Rogue Knights

Defiant - Supreme Hero

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A persons 'own brand of fun' isnt necessarily what the PVP zone is there for. I dont expect people to march to my own personal code of conduct, but I expect some [censored] basic respect, the same kind you show a stranger when you pass them in the street.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that sums up things up perfectly well and echoes my own feelings on the subject.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have to say that I agree as well. It is nice to get and to show basic respec. I even do it myself. I never go calling anyone n00b or shout anything too abusive on broadcast. But still I'v had few tells from both of you to ask me to quiet down. You have been polite telling me that and I would like to think that I have been polite in my responses. Still it doesn't change the fact that the thing you find annoying and perhaps little abusive I think is fun and not too nasty.

There are no global blackboard where you or me can go and scribble down our own CoCs(mine is bigger by the way hehe). Where as you might write down "Do not intervene announced duels" I might write "Kill the [censored]" I don't expect you to go intervene announced duels just because I think they are stupid and belong to the arena and you shouldn't expect me to leave them alone. You might argue that "You know thats rude and not very fair" while I say that "I'm not doing anything wrong."

I know how easily PvP can turn nasty and abusive and I too think that you should always show somekind of respect but sometimes you will meet people who just dont share your views or common politeness. So what? Don't take things too personally. If someone calls you n00b take a step back and let him rant or petition if you think hes being too abusive. (Sorry insult coming) But coming here and whining how awfully wrong something is and trying to impose your own set rules to everyone while assuming your rightful position on the moral high ground just shows how hypocrite, small minded and intolerant you are. And yes I'm doing that myself right now... then again I never said I was perfect (ok ok I did but I lied)


Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit

 

Posted

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I have to say that I agree as well. It is nice to get and to show basic respec. I even do it myself. I never go calling anyone n00b or shout anything too abusive on broadcast. But still I'v had few tells from both of you to ask me to quiet down. You have been polite telling me that and I would like to think that I have been polite in my responses. Still it doesn't change the fact that the thing you find annoying and perhaps little abusive I think is fun and not too nasty.

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To be honest I agree with you, it can be fun and isnt nasty....so long as you are with people you know and know you, knowing someone puts a whole new slant on what someone says as typed chat is inherantly flawed due to there being no tonal way to express emotions, even smileys can be taken several ways. I insult my friends in pvp most vigourously but they know it is all meant in fun, my fear is that such things on general broadcast in an open zone can sour the taste of pvp for new users. I always go through the zone with the new players explaining hero/villain chat and how the bounty system works, even giving pointers and advice on how to maximise their build and what my own weaknesses are. I just stand for fair play, I dont hide this fact and stand by it (I can still be a jerk sometimes, I am only human but I do try to keep this to a minimum )


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