Endurance drain


Cognito

 

Posted

I just dusted off my lvl35 elec/elec blaster that has been on the shelf since before I6. Played around with it a bit, actually had fun. (Huge thanks to my teammates for keeping me alive when I had no clue what I was doing! ) Started thinking about what to change, decided to leave Short Circuit 6-slotted, only switch 3 of the endmods into damage for a little AoE damage boost. And then I happen to glance at the US blaster forums and see this:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...part=1#4814014

WHAT?! I was a bit on the fence on if the endurance drain was worth slotting for anymore, guess I'm now safely on the "not worth it" side. At least when it comes to Short Circuit. What am I supposed to use this power for? A PBAoE with 3 seconds activation time and 2,8 BI that, when 3-slotted with endmods, drains one third of endurance of an evel level boss? Hello, Death!

So the question is, if I leave out Short Circuit, how should I slot Power Sink? Do you guys think endurance modifications make any sense or should I just slot 3 recharge? Or do I even need the extra recharges when I have Stamina, so I'd probably mostly need it after nuking. I will need the slots to max out my holds since I guess that's the only form of damage mitigation I'll have from now on.


 

Posted

Sigh ....

Just started to get excited over a new Elec/Elec blaster I was working on and now I see this - thanks for the link btw.

Fraid I can't really offer any advice on SC but for PowerSink, I've got that with Elec epic and have x3 end mod and x3 rec reduce and its enough (on live) to have once per mob-ish (with Hasten and Acc Meta).


 

Posted

From a defender with short circuit, 3xSO end modifiers, two blasts of this will suck minions dry (if they hit, which they usually do). Boss and Lts will take nasty knock, and as they actually USE more end, it is pretty handy. Paragorn Protectos are beautiful to sap particularly, as it saves you 2 mins trying to hit them before when they activate Moment of Glory (no end, no powers).

Now this is from a defenders viewpoint, so it will be less effective as a blaster granted. Nevertheless, there does not seem to be many enemies (if any) who can resist END drain, so it really is a cast iron method of highly effective AoE control if you can fire off enough blasts.

Now consider this as an elec/elec blaster... Fire off short circuit, fire of ball lightning [live], another short short cicuit... takes time i know, but you have probably sucked at least minionis dry.

On comes lightning field as you blap. Hey ho, game over for everything next to you - dont worry, you should be quite safe now, as end continually leaching from everyone around you as you pulse off end drain. Watch out for the occassional brawl, folks!

Now i know thius requires some danger, but in a team with a good tank, or debuffing defender, it is a highly effective, almost irresistable way of controlling everything around you if you can live through the initial wait.

Now stacked shortcircuits from 2 defenders with it makes life rather pleasant indeed

So before you knock it, bear in mind that an enemy sapped is a bit like an unresistable perma-hold, if you can get to that point. Granted it dosent work on AV's or elite bosses very well, but what does?


 

Posted

You're kidding, right?

It's one attack that drains endurance in a short range AoE. So what if it only does 1 third to a boss? That's pretty reasonable in my opinion; ever notice your other powers? Lightning Bolt can drain endurance (while transferring it back to you) as well as Thunderous Blast; while it leaves you without endurance for a bit, so are the mobs.

No end. No danger. Take the blue pill Neo, off you pop


 

Posted

Er.. not kidding. If this change goes through as it is, it will be very hard to ever drain a boss unless there are several drainers on the team or the fight takes forever, at least if you don't have /elec or /nrg secondary. Most probably you'd be better off just concentrating on killing the boss, whatever the secondary.

Lightning Bolt? Don't make me laugh. The drain there is negligible, hardly enough to keep up with their endurance regen. TB drains ok, true, but it's pretty situational considering the recharge.

However it might not be as bad as it looks because Castle has already promised that they will look into it so that endurance drain will still be viable after the change. Looks like not even the devs thought 3 applications of Short Circuit for an evel level boss is reasonable.


 

Posted

I still think that even if it is 3 slots, you shouldn't be able to mass drain EVERYTHING (including bosses) in one go. Bosses are there to challenge you and make you use more than one uber power.


 

Posted

Um, you can't mass drain anything in one go on live now.

It was never that über and it's certainly not über now. Even before ED you could only fully drain even levels with one application, you needed another application or some other drain power for anything higher. And it could still miss because you needed to 6-slot with endurance drain so no accuracies. I don't know if that was too good, I didn't think so but ED nerfed it so it's gone anyway. I just don't think further nerfs are needed.

Getting into melee is a hell of a risk for a blaster. It takes over 5 seconds in the middle of a spawn to execute a Short Circuit+Power Sink combo. If that won't even fully drain them, I don't see how the reward is worth the risk. The only time I could see myself doing that was if there was a tanker holding aggro, and in that case I might as well just blast.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Um, you can't mass drain anything in one go on live now.

It was never that über and it's certainly not über now. Even before ED you could only fully drain even levels with one application, you needed another application or some other drain power for anything higher. And it could still miss because you needed to 6-slot with endurance drain so no accuracies. I don't know if that was too good, I didn't think so but ED nerfed it so it's gone anyway. I just don't think further nerfs are needed.

Getting into melee is a hell of a risk for a blaster. It takes over 5 seconds in the middle of a spawn to execute a Short Circuit+Power Sink combo. If that won't even fully drain them, I don't see how the reward is worth the risk. The only time I could see myself doing that was if there was a tanker holding aggro, and in that case I might as well just blast.

[/ QUOTE ]

I quite agree, it simply doesn't work. I don't recall there ever being any complaints about End drain being overpowered prior to ED - it is, after all, a very short-lived effect - but since I6 it has become simply pointless for a Blaster.

I still find DVM both fun and effective, but End drain - which used to be one of his primary tools - is now completely pointless. A combination of single-target Holds, AoE damage and - believe it or not - the Disorient/Knockback from Tunder Clap are now more effective. The poster above who suggested a SC/BL/SC cycle doesn't seem to understand that 1) in the absence of Epic armours a Blaster is lucky to survive the damage that activating one SC draws, never mind and AoE cycle like that and 2) in any situation where you can survive the damage from the enemies you can now kill them faster than you can drain them - once again rendering the End drain useless.

Certainly, at level 50 with all my Epics in place, I can still drain the End from a spawn if I want to (PFF on, run into group and soak up the alpha, PFF off, SC followed by Power Sink) it's 1) hardly worth the effort 2) impossible for a character under level 41. I now find it more effective to use SC for damage, PS for End recovery, Holds for control and just blap away for damage. Effective, but not the character I designed.


By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey

 

Posted

I have no problems with he short circuit/ power sink combo at the momentn in PvE, can quite happily drain a group of 4/5 yellow's of all end.

My only problem is how useless it is in PvP, its supposed to be a signiture move of the elec powerset and is of no use there. Take into account the reduced accuracy of attack, reduced end drain and fitness group giving +endrec it can be practically imposible to drain some builds.

MJ

MJ


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I have no problems with he short circuit/ power sink combo at the momentn in PvE, can quite happily drain a group of 4/5 yellow's of all end.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whilst yes, that combo works it requires 1) that your Blaster has /Elec secondary and 2) that you're level 35 or greater.

Should only Elec blasters who choose a specific Secondary and have passed lvl 35 be able to make any practical use of the secondary effect of their Primary? This is not the case for other powersets, and was not the case for Elec prior to I6. It looked originally rather like an oversight in the implementation of ED, since End drain was already rather exquisitely balanced. However, I think the change to single target attacks with I6 was probably intended to balance this. It doesn't, but I think it was the intent.


By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey