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I think he means whereas invisibility means your invisible no matter how close u are, stealth means you're only invisible at a distance.
[/ QUOTE ]But that's not how it works... They're both powers that boost your stealth, meaning that enemies wont see you from so far away. invis just is so strong that an enemy needs +perspecion to see you at all... But the way stealth works, there really is no "ranged stealth".
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my point exactly.
stealth/invis/grant invis all give a stealth bonus.
base stealth and perception bonus = 500
add up and subtract the relavant numbers, and you get the number of feet from which a person can be seen, if the numbers negative you cant be seen at all.
@Shift
Shift 50 DM/DA Scrapper ][ TTL 50 Kat/Reg Scrapper ][ Shabriel 50 Peacebringer ][ Ion Shift 46 Rad/Rad Corruptor ][ Thermal Shift 35 Fire/Fire Blaster
"A Scrapper is a lot like a chainsaw. Somewhat hard to handle, incredibly dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane."
no, stealth gives you stealth to range (people can only see you when you are close to them) in before the update it used to work if you were close or not.
I have tested this before and after the recent patch, before it used to work as an all round stealth ranged or not, after the patch they 'fixed' it and now it works as it should as you have to be standing close to the person for them to spot you.
Before the recent patch I used to be able to stand next to a person running tactics with hide and stealth on and them not see me, now after the patch I cannot.
This is a note for all stalkers who have got stealth and they think great I wont be spotted cause I have hide and stealth... this is now not the case. if you dont want to be seen then get grant invis
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Erm, tested this on my friends controller in the Arena. He ran tactics, and he could see me when I was just running hide. However, when I ran stealth he couldn't see me at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Re-posted for emphasis. I have tested this and it's NOT TRUE.
Edit: After further testing, I have found that Defenders can see through hide and stealth when the stalker goes within about 6ft with just tactics. This is wrong, imo. Stealth and hide should require TWO +perception powers to overcome them. I'll probably drop stealth now, and get something else.
I suppose I can take some solace in the fact that other ATs can't but even so, I think we should really get a respec since I've killed three of my powerslots with concealment powers which are nowhere near as good as they used to be.
This is what I have been saying. People that thing stealth works are an extra +per point its been fixed and if you dont want to be seen then you should ask everyone to get grant invis.
Also may I add that MA Scrappers can see passed stalkers hide now, i know that danger sence gives +per but that shouldn't be enough to see a stalker.
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Erm, tested this on my friends controller in the Arena. He ran tactics, and he could see me when I was just running hide. However, when I ran stealth he couldn't see me at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Re-posted for emphasis. I have tested this and it's NOT TRUE.
Edit: After further testing, I have found that Defenders can see through hide and stealth when the stalker goes within about 6ft with just tactics. This is wrong, imo. Stealth and hide should require TWO +perception powers to overcome them. I'll probably drop stealth now, and get something else.
I suppose I can take some solace in the fact that other ATs can't but even so, I think we should really get a respec since I've killed three of my powerslots with concealment powers which are nowhere near as good as they used to be.
[/ QUOTE ]
if you look at this thread:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...part=1#4651244
Base stealth = 0
Base perception = 500
Stalker:
Hide -500
Stealth -392
Defender:
Base Perception: +500
Tactics:
# Tactics (50 Defender) : +435
# Tactics (50 Controller) : +348
# Tactics (40 Corruptor, 40 Controller) : +304
# Tactics (50 Blaster) : +243
# Tactics (48 Tanker, 47 Scrapper) : +234
As you see, at -892, only a defender can see you with +935 perception, any other AT, just cant. Too bad this is at lvl 50, because my lvl 30 (sirens call, lvl 31 exd to 30) sure as hell CANT! tactics perception level changes with level, stealth doesnt, so in that aspect, stealth is vastly superior to tactics. im not sure where the cut-off is, but im sure only like a 45+ defender can see you, and we all know how big of a percentage of the player base they make up 
But i've said this many times already, stalkers are a way to binairy AT for this game, that IS binairy, just not as binairy as stalkers
edit: i wouldnt be surprised if stalkers got some form of extra stealth in the patron pools. :/ hope i didnt just give cryptic an idea tho.
@Shift
Shift 50 DM/DA Scrapper ][ TTL 50 Kat/Reg Scrapper ][ Shabriel 50 Peacebringer ][ Ion Shift 46 Rad/Rad Corruptor ][ Thermal Shift 35 Fire/Fire Blaster
"A Scrapper is a lot like a chainsaw. Somewhat hard to handle, incredibly dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane."
[ QUOTE ]
Edit: After further testing, I have found that Defenders can see through hide and stealth when the stalker goes within about 6ft with just tactics. This is wrong, imo. Stealth and hide should require TWO +perception powers to overcome them. I'll probably drop stealth now, and get something else.
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. IIRC the +perception boost for defenders is much higher than for most other ATs at 80% (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Also bear in mind that Hide is a lvl1 power, whilst stealth is a lvl6 power. Tactics on the other hand is a lvl14 power that requires you to take assault or maneouvers 1st. In effect you DO need to take 2 powers to counter the stalkers 2 stealth powers.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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Edit: After further testing, I have found that Defenders can see through hide and stealth when the stalker goes within about 6ft with just tactics. This is wrong, imo. Stealth and hide should require TWO +perception powers to overcome them. I'll probably drop stealth now, and get something else.
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. IIRC the +perception boost for defenders is much higher than for most other ATs at 80% (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Also bear in mind that Hide is a lvl1 power, whilst stealth is a lvl6 power. Tactics on the other hand is a lvl14 power that requires you to take assault or maneouvers 1st. In effect you DO need to take 2 powers to counter the stalkers 2 stealth powers.
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from my post:
Tactics:
# Tactics (50 Defender) : +435
# Tactics (50 Controller) : +348
# Tactics (40 Corruptor, 40 Controller) : +304
# Tactics (50 Blaster) : +243
# Tactics (48 Tanker, 47 Scrapper) : +234
if you put Defenders at 100%, you'd get:
Defenders: 100%
Controller: 80%
Blaster: ~56%
Scrapper/Tanker: ~54%
And like i said, thats at level 50 (or jsut about) in the most populated zone right now (sirens call) you cannot see them. (single that is)
@Shift
Shift 50 DM/DA Scrapper ][ TTL 50 Kat/Reg Scrapper ][ Shabriel 50 Peacebringer ][ Ion Shift 46 Rad/Rad Corruptor ][ Thermal Shift 35 Fire/Fire Blaster
"A Scrapper is a lot like a chainsaw. Somewhat hard to handle, incredibly dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane."
/Dark Stalkers mag get extra stealth in thier secondary, however this won't stack with Stealth.
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Quote:
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Well, yeah. But hide stacks with pretty much every other stealth power out there, I think - or does it? I'm not really sure myself. Doh.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Concealment: Stealth and Cloak of Darkness are Mutually Exclusive.
I think you'll all be pleased with Dark/Dark for Stalkers.
[/ QUOTE ]
I doubt Stalker patron powers will have more stealth though. The hero epic powers are all powers of a type not normaly avalable to that AT, I expect the villain powers will be similar, so stalkers will most likely get some ranged attacks and Control.
I really should do something about this signature.
I certainly couldnt see hidden + stealthed stalkers on my defender last night, got so bored chasing shadows i almost fell asleep. Anywho, I quite like the idea of defenders being able to see stalkers if they have gone out there way to do so. And its not like a defender will easily kill a stalker 1 v 1, most of my stalker battles have me zapping away for 5 minutes listening to insults like "haha, you have to be kidding" or, "omg, your damage is so lame u noob", before the stalker gives up or a team mate assits. A few anti-stalker nerf arguments centre around the role of the stalker AT, the role of a defender is to defend the team, something they are far more capable of doing if they can see the stalker. And no, i dont think it would break the stalker AT, just force them to team and use a better strategy than lumbering up beside someone and twiddling there thumbs while looking for there AS power. (that was to the poster that raised the issue of defenders seeing his stalker, forget the name).
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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Note this day in your calender folks. It's the first stalker moan!!!! Whoooo!
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Haha!
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/Dark Stalkers mag get extra stealth in thier secondary, however this won't stack with Stealth.
[ QUOTE ]
....
[/ QUOTE ]
I doubt Stalker patron powers will have more stealth though. The hero epic powers are all powers of a type not normaly avalable to that AT, I expect the villain powers will be similar, so stalkers will most likely get some ranged attacks and Control.
[/ QUOTE ]
actually:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...v=#Post4694708
probably not, i think for stalkers they will drop some of the PBAoE toggles. My guess:
Hide
Dark Embrace
Murky Cloud
Obsidian Shield
Dark Regeneration
Death Shroud
Cloak of Fear
Oppressive Gloom
Debt Transfer
I reckon they will drop on or more of the 3 PBAoEs (bolded) especially because a damage aura breaks hide. furthermore, i left CoD out because i don't think a second stealth in your secondairy is balance. Hide + Stealth is very powerfull as it is, making stealth in your secondairy in stead of a pool power is baaaad mkay?
ymmv offcourse
@Shift
Shift 50 DM/DA Scrapper ][ TTL 50 Kat/Reg Scrapper ][ Shabriel 50 Peacebringer ][ Ion Shift 46 Rad/Rad Corruptor ][ Thermal Shift 35 Fire/Fire Blaster
"A Scrapper is a lot like a chainsaw. Somewhat hard to handle, incredibly dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane."
[ QUOTE ]
I certainly couldnt see hidden + stealthed stalkers on my defender last night, got so bored chasing shadows i almost fell asleep. Anywho, I quite like the idea of defenders being able to see stalkers if they have gone out there way to do so. And its not like a defender will easily kill a stalker 1 v 1, most of my stalker battles have me zapping away for 5 minutes listening to insults like "haha, you have to be kidding" or, "omg, your damage is so lame u noob", before the stalker gives up or a team mate assits. A few anti-stalker nerf arguments centre around the role of the stalker AT, the role of a defender is to defend the team, something they are far more capable of doing if they can see the stalker. And no, i dont think it would break the stalker AT, just force them to team and use a better strategy than lumbering up beside someone and twiddling there thumbs while looking for there AS power. (that was to the poster that raised the issue of defenders seeing his stalker, forget the name).
[/ QUOTE ]
I teamed with you last nite with my controller and with IR goggles I could see them. But like you said I couldn't really do much about it, damage wise did bugger all. However, I didn't get AS'd.
I wont argue with the role of a defender. What I would argue is we need to know if something has been changed. You yourself dont seem to think anything has been changed but im not so sure. You seemed to see me more than usual. I want to know do we have to change our tactics and strategies (and maybe powers).
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
[ QUOTE ]
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/Dark Stalkers mag get extra stealth in thier secondary, however this won't stack with Stealth.
[ QUOTE ]
....
[/ QUOTE ]
I doubt Stalker patron powers will have more stealth though. The hero epic powers are all powers of a type not normaly avalable to that AT, I expect the villain powers will be similar, so stalkers will most likely get some ranged attacks and Control.
[/ QUOTE ]
actually:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...v=#Post4694708
probably not, i think for stalkers they will drop some of the PBAoE toggles. My guess:
Hide
Dark Embrace
Murky Cloud
Obsidian Shield
Dark Regeneration
Death Shroud
Cloak of Fear
Oppressive Gloom
Debt Transfer
I reckon they will drop on or more of the 3 PBAoEs (bolded) especially because a damage aura breaks hide. furthermore, i left CoD out because i don't think a second stealth in your secondairy is balance. Hide + Stealth is very powerfull as it is, making stealth in your secondairy in stead of a pool power is baaaad mkay?
ymmv offcourse
[/ QUOTE ]
The quote from Castle suggests that CoD has been left in. Since you can't run CoD and Stealth at the same time, Hide+CoD is exactly equal to Hide+Stealth (except you can move faster) and has no significant effect on balance.
Death Shroud will certainly be removed though, using it is conterproductive for a stalker.
The other 2 toggles may or may not survive the translation. Dark Regeneration may have to go too.
I really should do something about this signature.
This is what I think Stalker Dark armour will look like:
Hide
Dark Embrace
Murky Cloud
Obsidian Shield
Dark Regeneration
Cloak of Darkness
Cloak of Fear
Dark Consumption (moved from Dark Melee)
Soul Transfer
I really should do something about this signature.
[ QUOTE ]
The quote from Castle suggests that CoD has been left in. Since you can't run CoD and Stealth at the same time, Hide+CoD is exactly equal to Hide+Stealth (except you can move faster) and has no significant effect on balance.
Death Shroud will certainly be removed though, using it is conterproductive for a stalker.
The other 2 toggles may or may not survive the translation. Dark Regeneration may have to go too.
[/ QUOTE ]
The quote i posted isnt the one about stealth and CoD being mutually exclusive, but the one where he commented on "seems is the key word here". Thus having a good chance that CoD is being gotten rid of.
[ QUOTE ]
This is what I think Stalker Dark armour will look like:
Hide
Dark Embrace
Murky Cloud
Obsidian Shield
Dark Regeneration
Cloak of Darkness
Cloak of Fear
Dark Consumption (moved from Dark Melee)
Soul Transfer
[/ QUOTE ]
Dark regeneration AND dark consumption in ONE set? defenetly not going to happen.
Dark Regen is one of the Key powers in Dark Armor, as is Dark Consumption in Dark Melee (up there with ToF/MnG). Putting them both in 1 set.... bad thing. Also, im not sure, but i think the debuff effect, if not the fear effect form CoF will still break hide :/. No other stalker secondairy has a toggle PBAoE, except EAs Repulse, which i have up to the day not seen in even ONE stalker build. PvE or PvP.
@Shift
Shift 50 DM/DA Scrapper ][ TTL 50 Kat/Reg Scrapper ][ Shabriel 50 Peacebringer ][ Ion Shift 46 Rad/Rad Corruptor ][ Thermal Shift 35 Fire/Fire Blaster
"A Scrapper is a lot like a chainsaw. Somewhat hard to handle, incredibly dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane."
[ QUOTE ]
The quote i posted isnt the one about stealth and CoD being mutually exclusive, but the one where he commented on "seems is the key word here".
[/ QUOTE ]
That post sounds more like Castle getting his wrists slapped for giving too much away and covering his backside to me. If CoD was being removed there wouldn't have been any point in pointing out that it can't stack with Stealth.
I'm pretty certain that Dark Consumption will be the power cut from dark melee to make way for assassin strike (as pbaoe attacks are not really appropiate to stalkers), and EA has an endurance recovery power at about that level (not that endurence is such a big issue for stalkers anyway).
Cloak of Fear would be overpowered if it didn't supress hide, however as a concept it could be compared to Repel as a power to use after AS to keep fighting. Like repel it would probably be left out of many builds.
Perhaps a better option for CoF would be to make it a click power.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Stalkers are you sick to death of people seeing you when you are in Hide now they have fixed the stealth bug... do you think that its not worth playing now...
Heroes standing there pretending not to see you start your build up / AS then they brawl you [censored]!! is that about. They need to sort stalkers out either increase their defences or improve something. Maybe we will see something in the epic powerset??
Every stalker should of got a free respec so they can respec out of stealth and into grant invis, you just need to be teamed wtih a person with grant invis...
any stalkers out there droppping stealth now its fixed?
I know of 3 stalkers that are dropping it and getting grant invis
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Let me set the record straight. You are complaining because a bug has been fixed that allowed you to do something you were not supposed to do. This is like complaing that you can no longer watch your neighbours tv set through his window instead of buying your own because he has moved it or closed the curtains. A nerf I may have sympathy with. This I am ering to the side of no sympathy.
Granted my Stalker is barly used. I am enjoying other ATs and will no doubt get round to him. And maybe then I will think something is not right with it. But I sure will not base my opinion purely on PvP thats for sure.
The OP is complaining because they fixed a bug that can no longer be exploited? Cause it seems so. No need complain you know bugs were there to be fixed.All you need to do now is rework your builds. As far as a stealth nerf there is no indication what so ever that it has been nerfed and seems to be WAI so far.
Nerf or bug fix, its yet another nail in the coffin that will see Co* being shelved come the 18th of this month when my subs run out. By the sounds of it Stalkers can now be seen when in close range, pretty much means that my dark brute and my stalker are now very alike apart from my brute can take the damage being dealt when i get seen close up. Not much point in having AS if you cant get close enough to use it, not all Stalkers are hardened PvP'ers who will adapt, in fact there are very few very good stalkers. Sudden influx of Spines Stalkers anyone?
I reckon the effects of this change wont be seen properly (good or bad) for a while yet till people are used to it. IMO stalkers are going to be forced to team to be of any use in PVP. And the arguement that heroes have been forced to team for months to deal with stalkers just wont wash. This was true for support AT's in particular, other AT's could cope with em, and a Stalker is NOT a support AT.
[ QUOTE ]
And the arguement that heroes have been forced to team for months to deal with stalkers just wont wash. This was true for support AT's in particular, other AT's could cope with em, and a Stalker is NOT a support AT.
[/ QUOTE ]
Co* is designed as a team game in either PvE or PvP. Why stalkers think they should be a special case and be able to successfully PvP solo is beyond me.
A stalker can function very well as part of a team. It seems they just don't want to.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
[ QUOTE ]
Co* is designed as a team game in either PvE or PvP. Why stalkers think they should be a special case and be able to successfully PvP solo is beyond me.
A stalker can function very well as part of a team. It seems they just don't want to.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm. Strange. I've seen blasters doing solo hit and run tactics. Similar thing with scrappers. Sure, they couldn't go against a GROUP of enemies, but 1 on 1... why not?
As for stalkers teaming up... Yeah, it works. If my teammate throws out holds, I can probably AS something. That's about it for teamplay. Cos if a stalker can be seen, then his team needs to be a REALLY good distraction to allow the stalker to AS something.
Just... play a stalker will you? They're really poor in teams. AS, run away and hide, AS, run away and hide (Hmm... same as solo, no?). And don't EVER AS before your team attacks... which in turn make's all the nice AoEs fly around disrupting AS.
Note: I have not played my stalker in some time now. I do not know about the supposed nerf/bug/whatever. The above opinion is "if that change is actually true" style response.
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And the arguement that heroes have been forced to team for months to deal with stalkers just wont wash. This was true for support AT's in particular, other AT's could cope with em, and a Stalker is NOT a support AT.
[/ QUOTE ]
Co* is designed as a team game in either PvE or PvP. Why stalkers think they should be a special case and be able to successfully PvP solo is beyond me.
A stalker can function very well as part of a team. It seems they just don't want to.
[/ QUOTE ]
So i must be mistaken when i've thought i was soloing in Sirens as my scrapper, peacebringer, empath, brute?
With a whole range of successful solo builds at your fingertips I'm wondering why you're throwing your toys out your pram over a slight adjustment to the stalker 
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
[ QUOTE ]
With a whole range of successful solo builds at your fingertips I'm wondering why you're throwing your toys out your pram over a slight adjustment to the stalker
[/ QUOTE ]
Which leaves me wondering why you think i shouldnt have a soloable stalker because i have other toons that can solo.
If i were throwing my toys out of the pram believe me i wouldnt be posting so calmly. I'm not stopping my account from being renewed due to this one issue, i am not that narrow minded. It's due to a range of reasons.
[ QUOTE ]
But that's not how it works... They're both powers that boost your stealth, meaning that enemies wont see you from so far away. invis just is so strong that an enemy needs +perspecion to see you at all... But the way stealth works, there really is no "ranged stealth".
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're confusing the ranged component of perception with the stealth/hide/invisible abilities. If the foe has no +perception then you're invisible whether your 2 feet or 2 miles away. It is, for the sake or argument, rangeless. But ther is a range at which you'll become visible with stealth.
If the foe has some +perception running, once you get in range of THAT ability he'll see through your invisibility. The language is fairly confusing but I can see a distinction.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)