Stealth

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I would say at least make it so that more than ONE +perc power is requirened to see a non stalker with stacked stealth ie stealth + stealth IO or stealth + sup invis

[/ QUOTE ]It's already like that. Base perception is 500ft, and non-Stalker/non-Arachnos stealth cap is 571.5ft. If you have no +perception, you will never see a stealth-capped opponent. (Well, until they hit you, which drops their stealth...)

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so what youre saying is that if someone has, for example FA, he/she will not be able to see a stealth capped non stalker/arachnos ?

if im not mistaken , all you need to see a stealth capped NON stalker/arach is ONE +perc power.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that you should need a +per power to see a stealth capped character, which is true; you're saying we ought to need two +per powers to see a stealth capped character. My apology.

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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

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You can build around stealth. And your suggestion wouldn't change that, you'd still be seen likely just as often.

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Can I build around stealth and be unseen by people that have but ONE +perc source ? >.>

[/ QUOTE ]Why should ONE source of full stealth beat ONE source of full perception? One should counter the other.

And again, you can't ignore the SoA or Stalkers, raising the other ATs will impact the SoA at the very least which 2 of the 4 branches are built around stealth (unlike the other ATs where Stealth does nothing but stealth).

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KitsuneKnight is 100% correct.


I don't think the whole zone needs to be running around at increadible levels of stealth. Any AT can achieve decent levels of stealth, for which opposing AT's would have to counter (or not see them at all). But they don't need to have SoA levels of stealth at all.

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but theres already a whole lot of people running around at amazing levels of stealth ... they just all happen to be on villain side =(

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Stealth + stealth IO can be countered by having one source of perception
That's 2 sources of stealth being beat by one source of perception .

[/ QUOTE ]No, Stealth/Stealth IO are each half of full stealth. The appropriate comparison would be to compare them to the +Perception IO, which only counters one of the two.

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only that other ATs that have built around stealth can now be stealthier too.

[/ QUOTE ]No other ATs in the game are built around Stealth, that's the thing.

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I would say at least make it so that more than ONE +perc power is requirened to see a non stalker with stacked stealth ie stealth + stealth IO or stealth + sup invis

[/ QUOTE ]It's already like that. Base perception is 500ft, and non-Stalker/non-Arachnos stealth cap is 571.5ft. If you have no +perception, you will never see a stealth-capped opponent. (Well, until they hit you, which drops their stealth...)

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Except most ATs have access to a power that grants +To-Hit, which can then be slotted with a Rectified Reticle, +Perception, which Grants 100ft of perception, putting you at 600ft.

That's 1 Perception Enhancement, not even a +perception power you have to take, and it beats out a Stealth power AND a Stealth IO.

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You can build around stealth. And your suggestion wouldn't change that, you'd still be seen likely just as often.

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Can I build around stealth and be unseen by people that have but ONE +perc source ? >.>

[/ QUOTE ]Why should ONE source of full stealth beat ONE source of full perception? One should counter the other.


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Except for that its not 1 percep beating 1 stealth, its 1 percep beating 2 stealth...

That, is clearly not balanced...

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And again, you can't ignore the SoA or Stalkers, raising the other ATs will impact the SoA at the very least which 2 of the 4 branches are built around stealth (unlike the other ATs where Stealth does nothing but stealth).

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KitsuneKnight is 100% correct.


I don't think the whole zone needs to be running around at increadible levels of stealth. Any AT can achieve decent levels of stealth, for which opposing AT's would have to counter (or not see them at all). But they don't need to have SoA levels of stealth at all.

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Perhaps raising the stealth caps shouldn't be the answer, maybe lowering the Perception Base from 500ft to a point probably around where the Perception IO will let you see someone with just the Stealth IO. So then someone with a stealth power and a stealth IO will not be seen by someone with without at least a percep io and that +percep power. That, would be balanced...

But I would like to see is someway to make toons that can get access to tons of stealth actually able to use it without breaking the system...

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But I would like to see is someway to make toons that can get access to tons of stealth actually able to use it without breaking the system...

[/ QUOTE ]This is my point, the change suggested would only break the system even worse. The entire stealth system needs to be revamped, minor changes like this will only make things worse.

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But I would like to see is someway to make toons that can get access to tons of stealth actually able to use it without breaking the system...

[/ QUOTE ]This is my point, the change suggested would only break the system even worse. The entire stealth system needs to be revamped, minor changes like this will only make things worse.

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And like I've said several times already, the changes suggested will only make a bad system worse. Simply bolding yourself while completely ignoring what I wrote isn't productive in the slightest.

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And like I've said several times already, the changes suggested will only make a bad system worse. Simply bolding yourself while completely ignoring what I wrote isn't productive in the slightest.

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No, I didn't ignore you, hence the Bolding. I said, without breaking the system, that obviously means that you are right in that the whole system needs a revamp... Though the whole point of suggestions is that they are picked apart and to be thought through, I mean well in the suggestions I've made, trying not to be over-compensating but simply stating that all of it is just wrong without much explanation isn't very productive either...

So there, were both not very productive according to each other...

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well its no use speculating ... as in theres no use in suggesting anything ... if we are actually listened to this problem with stealth wouldnt exist in the first place ... but oh well ..

sigh ...

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Stealth + stealth IO can be countered by having one source of perception
That's 2 sources of stealth being beat by one source of perception .

[/ QUOTE ]No, Stealth/Stealth IO are each half of full stealth. The appropriate comparison would be to compare them to the +Perception IO, which only counters one of the two.

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only that other ATs that have built around stealth can now be stealthier too.

[/ QUOTE ]No other ATs in the game are built around Stealth, that's the thing.

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While it's true that stealth + stealth IO are both half strength they provide more stealth than the stealth cap allows .. So .. No matter what , it takes but ONE perception power to counter a stealth capped non stalker/soa

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Stealth + stealth IO can be countered by having one source of perception
That's 2 sources of stealth being beat by one source of perception .

[/ QUOTE ]No, Stealth/Stealth IO are each half of full stealth. The appropriate comparison would be to compare them to the +Perception IO, which only counters one of the two.

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only that other ATs that have built around stealth can now be stealthier too.

[/ QUOTE ]No other ATs in the game are built around Stealth, that's the thing.

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While it's true that stealth + stealth IO are both half strength they provide more stealth than the stealth cap allows .. So .. No matter what , it takes but ONE perception power to counter a stealth capped non stalker/soa

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You're saying that like it's a bad thing. Imagine this scenario:

There is an enemy in the zone that's capable of a devastating amount of damage, but you can't see him because he's got more steath than you have perception. Suddenly you're hit with several attacks, and you have no idea where from - and then you're staring at the "Go to hospital" button while you're still trying to figure out what killed you.

What have I just described? A Blaster or Dominator under your proposed "higher stealth caps for non-stealth-based ATs" plan.

The reason Stalkers and VEATs get a higher stealth cap (and that those caps are balanced relative to other ATs) is not only due to the fact that they rely on stealth to deliver their critical attacks, but also due to the fact that those characters are melee-based. They need the stealth, not only because it's required to set up the majority of their damage, but also because they need to be able to get into melee range unseen to actually execute those attacks. Give a Blaster the same stealth cap as a VEAT and suddenly you've got an enemy that can lob lots of damage really fast, from an 80+ foot range (much more if they're an /Energy Blaster with Boost Range).

You might not know this, but many people in zones don't have any perception beyond base (not even the +percep IO). I've been on both sides of the fence, and it's far more aggravating to not be able to see something at the 571-foot stealth cap than it is to be seen by someone when I'm at the 571-foot stealth cap.

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Stealth + stealth IO can be countered by having one source of perception
That's 2 sources of stealth being beat by one source of perception .

[/ QUOTE ]No, Stealth/Stealth IO are each half of full stealth. The appropriate comparison would be to compare them to the +Perception IO, which only counters one of the two.

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only that other ATs that have built around stealth can now be stealthier too.

[/ QUOTE ]No other ATs in the game are built around Stealth, that's the thing.

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While it's true that stealth + stealth IO are both half strength they provide more stealth than the stealth cap allows .. So .. No matter what , it takes but ONE perception power to counter a stealth capped non stalker/soa

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You're saying that like it's a bad thing. Imagine this scenario:

There is an enemy in the zone that's capable of a devastating amount of damage, but you can't see him because he's got more steath than you have perception. Suddenly you're hit with several attacks, and you have no idea where from - and then you're staring at the "Go to hospital" button while you're still trying to figure out what killed you.

What have I just described? A Blaster or Dominator under your proposed "higher stealth caps for non-stealth-based ATs" plan.

The reason Stalkers and VEATs get a higher stealth cap (and that those caps are balanced relative to other ATs) is not only due to the fact that they rely on stealth to deliver their critical attacks, but also due to the fact that those characters are melee-based. They need the stealth, not only because it's required to set up the majority of their damage, but also because they need to be able to get into melee range unseen to actually execute those attacks. Give a Blaster the same stealth cap as a VEAT and suddenly you've got an enemy that can lob lots of damage really fast, from an 80+ foot range (much more if they're an /Energy Blaster with Boost Range).

You might not know this, but many people in zones don't have any perception beyond base (not even the +percep IO). I've been on both sides of the fence, and it's far more aggravating to not be able to see something at the 571-foot stealth cap than it is to be seen by someone when I'm at the 571-foot stealth cap.

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but ... attacking brings you out of stealth ... what youre saying is that its worse to be attacked by a blaster thats in stealth than it is to be attacked by a stalker in stealth.

i dunno .. i find it kinda the same , the blaster, whether or not in stealth, is still gonna attack you from 80 ft, whether you see him or not. so whatever the case you have 80 ft to travel before youre going to hit him/her if youre melee and if youre not melee then it just means that he got the first shot ..

and remember, i didnt suggest they have the same cap as stalkers .. i merely suggested making the stealth cap for non stalker/SoA ATs to be slightly higher (thus you would still be able to see them from a decent range if you get some Perc)
or as one of the other posters said lower the base perc

of course , i know none of this is falling in any ears that can actually do anything , but its still interesting what other people think stealth in this game should be like =)

please post your thoughts on the matter =D

Edit: typo (and it's a pain to edit posts on an iPhone >.> )

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There is an enemy in the zone that's capable of a devastating amount of damage, but you can't see him because he's got more steath than you have perception. Suddenly you're hit with several attacks, and you have no idea where from - and then you're staring at the "Go to hospital" button while you're still trying to figure out what killed you.

What have I just described? A Blaster or Dominator under your proposed "higher stealth caps for non-stealth-based ATs" plan.

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Actually, that happens all the time even WITHOUT stealth. At least to me.

I'll be moving around, panning the camera around (not frantically, but not just staring straight ahead), and someone will whip out from behind a building, drop down from the altitude cap, etc, and just blow me in half. Even while I'm stealthed. Why? Because my stealth is USELESS, unless I'm a stalker.

My ill/rad troller has superior invis. I've yet to find ANYONE who CAN'T see me in pvp with her. I had a long chat with someone in broadcast about it, who had been idly following me around and firing snipe shots at me.

I'd be fine if someone could pierce my stealth from, say, 100-150 feet away. But at 500+ feet away, even when I'm at the supposed stealth cap? That's insane.

The problem is the incredibly binary nature of just about everything in the game. If stealth would LOWER peoples' perception radius against you, rather than just giving you a "stealth radius", that would work much better. Because as it stands right now, all it takes to pierce any non-stalker's stealth is a single +perc power/IO.

And that's nuts. I'm not even a big pvper (I spend about 99% of my time in pve) and I find that ludicrous.

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The Mastermind Project
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