A question about Weave


Desmodos

 

Posted

I have a question that has been gnawing at me and I am hoping that I can find some answers.

I have a Dark/Regen Scrapper, level 45. I solo with her and she solos very well

My question is about Weave. I have read guides, and I have read posts, but have never seen the answer to the question "How much base defense is needed for Weave to make a difference to my toon's survival?"

My toon has no defense powers. Not even Combat Jump. Her bonuses are all about accuracy, recharge, regeneration, and max health. No defense bonuses to stack with.

So, will the amount of defense that Weave alone grants be enough to see an increase in the survival of a Dark/Regen who solos, and who has no defense anywhere in her build for Weave to stack with?

If I slot my Steadfast Resist /Defense IO, and take up Combat Jumping, would these changes be enough for Weave to make a difference?

I know the answer is in the official numbers, but sadly I have been math challenged my entire life, and cannot glean the answer from them myself...I tried.

So, I am here in the scrapper forum, hoping to get an answer, and finally close this chapter. Thank you all for being here to ask


So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try

***Dennis DeYoung

 

Posted

0%.

Every bit of defense helps, so Weave by itself will help without any other defense. As a DM, your attacks also do tohit debuffs, so in fact you've got more "defense" than you'd believe against the foe(s) you're hitting, through tohit debuffs.

That being said, an effective difference isn't always obvious. With nothing but unslotted CJ (which is half as much as Weave), I've seen deflected messages pop up about once every two missions on average. The general consensus on the topic is usually that you need about 20-25% total defense for it to make a noticeable difference.


 

Posted

base for weave is 5%
base for cj is 2.5%
proc 3&
totals to 10.5% so baddies would have a 35% base to hit w/o modifiers or enc's in your build


 

Posted

Defense gets better the more you have of it.

It's a relative scale.

There's no simple answer.

Have a cookie.


 

Posted

Strictly speaking, any amount of defense you add to your character is an improvement to your survivability. I've often used the phrase "noticeable difference" but understand that's highly subjective.

I personally don't "notice" less than 20% defense to contribute any significant impact on my survivabllity.

I personally do "notice" a substantial difference between 20% to 25 defense and 25%-30%.


While there is no disputing every percent of defense improves your survivability. The issue falls back to my other frequent phrase, "opportunity cost." If Weave is the only defense power you are taking how does it rank against another choice you passed over for it. Could you have taken something else that would have been more significant to your characters performance?

I personally would not take Weave if was my sole source of defense. I personally would take Weave if I can stack with other power and/or IOs to obtain over 20% defense.


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Posted

[ QUOTE ]
0%.

Every bit of defense helps, so Weave by itself will help without any other defense. As a DM, your attacks also do tohit debuffs, so in fact you've got more "defense" than you'd believe against the foe(s) you're hitting, through tohit debuffs.

That being said, an effective difference isn't always obvious. With nothing but unslotted CJ (which is half as much as Weave), I've seen deflected messages pop up about once every two missions on average. The general consensus on the topic is usually that you need about 20-25% total defense for it to make a noticeable difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's actually a bit more complicated than this. The reason that many people among the number crunchers don't advocate taking +def unless you're taking a lot of +def if you're playing */regen is that what kills */regen is less often damage over a long time and more often damage within a very small window of time. Small amounts of defense do remarkably little to reduce the amount of damage taken within a small window of time (over time it will, but regen does quite well over time) because their effect upon the chance to hit is so minor.

However, if you actually stack up to having a significant amount of defense, you'll be much more survivable because, while small amounts of defense don't largely effect survivability within a small time frame, large amounts of defense do. This would allow you to refrain from using Reconstruction, which is generally used pretty soon after it recharges in high damage situations, for times when you are actually hit and need to heal up quickly before having your passive defenses take over again.

The short answer is that, for sets like */regen that are weak to large amounts of damage within a short period of time (this includes defense based sets interestingly enough), having only a small amount of defense does very little. Having lots of defense (20%+ is generally a good point to work with) will actually contribute noticeably to your survivability.


 

Posted

How much recharge do you have? I find recharge has a larger impact on your survivability on Regen. More recharge meaning Dull Pain and Reconstruction up more often. Weave may be worth keeping if only for muling Luck of Gambler +recharge IOs.


 

Posted

Wow. I play a bit, cook dinner, come back to this question, and find a lot of answers

Very good answers

I think I will take Weave, and try to get some defense bonuses...hmmm...I have a level 43 Dark/SR who does not have Weave yet, and is over softcap when she swallows a small purple. I need to look over the Dark Melee part of her build, which is where I have the majority of her defense bonuses, and get ideas for this one...or just flat out copy it, except for Siphon life...My Dark/Regen has it slotted for damage, while my Dark/SR has it slotted mostly for heals.

I might have to sacrifice some of my accuracy and recharge bonuses to get enough defense though....but now I have a real percentage to work towards, and that is simply wonderful....

Enough of my happy babbling and plotting. THANK YOU ALL!!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!!


So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try

***Dennis DeYoung

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. I play a bit, cook dinner, come back to this question, and find a lot of answers

Very good answers

I think I will take Weave, and try to get some defense bonuses...hmmm...I have a level 43 Dark/SR who does not have Weave yet, and is over softcap when she swallows a small purple. I need to look over the Dark Melee part of her build, which is where I have the majority of her defense bonuses, and get ideas for this one...or just flat out copy it, except for Siphon life...My Dark/Regen has it slotted for damage, while my Dark/SR has it slotted mostly for heals.

I might have to sacrifice some of my accuracy and recharge bonuses to get enough defense though....but now I have a real percentage to work towards, and that is simply wonderful....

Enough of my happy babbling and plotting. THANK YOU ALL!!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

DM/sr is easy to soft cap tough wave will get you close and a couple small IO's and you are good


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Posted

I like recharge and defense. I currently have enough recharge to run permanent dull pain and around 20ish% defense to all positions. I also have around 700ish% passive regeneration. I love my fire/regeneration.


Virtue: @Santorican

Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
base for weave is 5%
base for cj is 2.5%
proc 3&
totals to 10.5% so baddies would have a 35% base to hit w/o modifiers or enc's in your build

[/ QUOTE ]
These numbers are all incorrect and your math is wrong as well. Weave for scrappers is 3.75%. CJ for scrappers is 1.875%. With the 3% IO the total is 8.625%. In PVE, base chance tohit is 50%. Net of defense this would be reduced to 41.375%.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
base for weave is 5%
base for cj is 2.5%
proc 3&
totals to 10.5% so baddies would have a 35% base to hit w/o modifiers or enc's in your build

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone needs to learn about the Scrapper self buff scalar of .75.