This Would FIX Melee vs. Ranged...
By
Antigonus,
Posted on: 2009-06-28 09:53 in Everything about PvP
Think you've been playing too much Eve Online
Movement powers used to impose a significant to-hit debuff in combat. PvErs hated it so it was changed to travel suppression. Personally, I prefered it to travel suppression then and I think I would still prefer it now. I think it was a more realistic and ellegant solution than TS and as a side effect would help defense somewhat.
QR
We already have defense,resistance and elusivity.
I really do not think we need another system on top of these.
What we need is for these to work in a fair balanced system.
We do not have that.
It does how ever make sense, they won't do it but it does make sense. You shouldn't be accurate running by someone at 200 miles per hr,that's why shooters in real life are stationary for the most part, if you think about it two moving targets, going in vastly different directions, at different angles, different heights, yet still have all that acc is a bit off. And if it used to be, in the game than it wouldn't be impossible to go back to it, and why didn't castle think of this before DR and all the other stuff?
And damn, when pve'rs cry stuff gets done, that's sweet... pvprs never get heard we just get implementations and a take it or leave it attitude.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
This has RP written all over it... so i'll go with that logic. We are super heros first and foremost. Yeah sure, a normal human moving at supeman speeds will not hit the broad side of a barn even if given some of the most accurate weapons, but superman can, the flash can, quicksilver can, silver surfer can.
If thats not your RPing cup of tea and your hero is all natural for example, then don't get tactics, focused accuracy, aim, BU, targeting drone... heck don't even slot acc into your attacks.
Mess with my Archery attacks and feel my wrath. Melle attack had a built in advantage already ... the ATs that have them have more hit points than those with only ranged attacks. You don't like that I am hitting you at distance.. don't start screwing up the accuracy I NEED to survive an solo well in PvE ... Try running at me and closing range. I'll either turn and run which means I am not shooting at you any more or hope I've done enough damage already to take you down before I am defeated.
I have no desire to PvP ever but its only one small part of the game and making those changes screws MY game up because you can't run fast enough? Nope I don't buy it
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
[ QUOTE ]
This has RP written all over it... so i'll go with that logic.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is nothing "RP" about the original post.
[ QUOTE ]
We are super heros first and foremost. Yeah sure, a normal human moving at supeman speeds will not hit the broad side of a barn even if given some of the most accurate weapons, but superman can, the flash can, quicksilver can, silver surfer can.
[/ QUOTE ]
Superman, Quicksilver, and Flash are melee. So is much of Silver Surfer.
[ QUOTE ]
If thats not your RPing cup of tea and your hero is all natural for example, then don't get tactics, focused accuracy, aim, BU, targeting drone... heck don't even slot acc into your attacks.
[/ QUOTE ]
How does your suggestion fix melee vs. ranged?
[ QUOTE ]
Mess with my Archery attacks and feel my wrath.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is why you have TR, DR, and all the other crap.
[ QUOTE ]
Melle attack had a built in advantage already ... the ATs that have them have more hit points than those with only ranged attacks. You don't like that I am hitting you at distance.. don't start screwing up the accuracy I NEED to survive an solo well in PvE ... Try running at me and closing range. I'll either turn and run which means I am not shooting at you any more or hope I've done enough damage already to take you down before I am defeated.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can't run at you and attack you in PvE, so I don't know where you came up with that notion. PLEASE READ THE POST. Archery, as with any other power, would have an optimum range. OPTIMUM RANGE. Therefore, if it's 50ft, and you were closer, you'd actually get a BONUS to hit, not a penality.
[ QUOTE ]
I have no desire to PvP ever but its only one small part of the game and making those changes screws MY game up because you can't run fast enough? Nope I don't buy it
[/ QUOTE ]
If you do not PvP, then you do not understand the problem. This is the PvP forum for CoX, btw.
[ QUOTE ]
How does your suggestion fix melee vs. ranged?
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't suggest a fix because there is a fix already and it came from the PvEers and Castle recognized the need for these powers as something that gives us a unique role in PvP unlike any PvP role out there in the MMO genre... and if you don't have this power that all melee ATs except stalkers have access to than GL finding a role in PvP as a meleer other than a fight clubber. However, I'll give you a compliment and say you are on the brink of discovering the potential of what CoX PvP has to offer.
Ranged Melee FTW!!!
[ QUOTE ]
I don't suggest a fix because there is a fix already...
[/ QUOTE ]
Does everyone else believe that PvP is fixed? I didn't realize this.
I do not think any1 believes it is "fixed", rather it has been set up so everyone can get there killz on. PvP may have been imbalanced pre i12, and all they did was dumb it down a bit, to put it all barney style. There is no real "fix" for PvP, b/c not everyone will be pleased no matter the result.
[ QUOTE ]
I do not think any1 believes it is "fixed", rather it has been set up so everyone can get there killz on. PvP may have been imbalanced pre i12, and all they did was dumb it down a bit, to put it all barney style. There is no real "fix" for PvP, b/c not everyone will be pleased no matter the result.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fair enough.
In all truthfulness, I don't believe CoX can be fixed. I merely wanted to state why melee attacks (not ATs) are unable to compete with ranged attacks. As part of the deal, I offer constructive criticism in the form of suggestion.
All that is occurring right now is the implementation of artificial mechanics. DR, TS, and so on. There's a lot more I could predict right now, but no one will believe it until it actually happens.
The best you can do is simply enjoy it the way that it is.
...and some of you won't want to hear this.
When you stand in front of someone, your chance to hit them is almost certain. Sure, they can block it or resist it, but it's extremely likely to make contact.
But this is not true, the farther away you are.
There are 3 FACTORS which affect your ability to hit a target:
1. Your distance.
2. Movement.
3. Environmental effects.
I propose that distance be a modifying factor of your ability to hit. Melee attacks, or attacks at close range are near 100%, but each foot farther out is modified negatively. The formula would be something like a Base Optimum Distance (0% modifier) to + or - 100% based on maximum or minimum distance.
Therefore, if your "snap shot" is optimum at 30 ft. and has a maximum of 80 ft, AND you are standing at 60 ft., you chance to hit is modified by -60% (60% represents 30 ft away from the optimum distance, coincedentally). Of course, if you fired at 30 ft, you would have no modifier.
Obviously, effects such as Build Ups, Buffs, and so on would continue to provide their benefits, and would be sought for.
In reference to movement, I propose modifying your to hit ability by your speed. People standing still have the ability to aim with little problem, but aiming at 200 mph? Be real. No, be just a little realistic, even in this superhero fantasy world. No power by design should be easy when running, jumping, flying, teleporting, etc. The formula I propose is to basically take the maximum speed in effect, and use that as the modifier. Therefore, if you are running, and your max speed in effect is 250 mph, your modifier is 0% at standing, but -100% at full speed. What you would need to do is to learn to stop and have the ability to run slower. Obviously, that's a game mechanic and something the developers would need to deal with. I recognize the difficulting in running at speeds slower than maximum from a programming perspective.
Anyhow, this is why speedsters are normally melee fighters in the superhero universe. Synapse is the one exception I know of.
With modifiers like this you'll begin focusing on powers that modify your ability to hit, to make some of your distant attacks more successful, while you are strafing. You'll also learn the value of melee. Kiting, while possible, will not be the crutch of all PvP. Neither will super speed, which I might add, seems to be a necessity of every hero to even be remotely successful.
If you agree there is a problem with melee vs. ranged, then first understand that there's a problem when a guy a 80ft can hit you as easily as he can from 5 ft.
That's just not right. Maximum range, while artificial in this game, should also represent that this is greatest range you can acheive before there's no chance you'll succeed. As well, you should also note that a person should have a better chance to hit you standing still than running or jumping by.
If you treat these disparities, you'll be giving melee attacks an equal importance.
Evironmental affects are obvious. Rain, wind, powers that are in effect...in a sense, they already exists.
Let me state that I am against supression, diminishing returns and other artificial effects that have been created simply for arbitrary, manufactured reason.
Sure, I know this will receive skepticism and negativity. I'm not even sure that the CoX core system can accomodate further expansion. Who cares...the point is that someone needed to explain why its broke.