MMs can effectively out-damage the other ATs with the right Secondary.
For example I would like to make a thugs/PD. End game what would it (damage) be compared to a fire/kin or SS/SD Brutes ?
Thanks for your answer !
Thugs/Pain can steamroll literally anything.
You would most likely out damage a SS/SD, and does more than a Fire/Kin.
Now when I said Thugs/Pain could out damage SS/SD I meant in ST damage. Shield offers an amazing amount of AoE, but should you pick up a patron Immobilize you could probably deal just as much so long as the arsonist spams his Fire AoE.
Thanks for the quick response !
so far about the only combination that can consistantly keep up or outdamage my thugs/traps is an ss/fire brute - and that's due to the short-recharge combo's of immob+burn, and a fast recharge footstomp.
on a single target though you'd have to go to a stone melee or fire melee to compete with my thugs/traps
thugs/traps is my favorite mm EVER
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Hmmm...
...
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Damagewise, MMs tend to be up near the top. In particular, Thugs and Bots do huge AoE damage and decent single target, while Ninjas do insane single target and modest AoE. Mercs are a bit lower damage out of the box but can slot multiple Achilles Heel procs to compensate, and Necro is a bit less damage (still good though) and more control.
Add an AoE debuffing secondary and you have massive damage dealing potential... about the only things that hit harder are certain Blasters, some of the more extreme AoE Brute builds, and maybe Fire/Kins. However, a MM is a lot harder to kill than a Blaster or Fire/Kin so in practice they can solo better... the only real competition they have is from heavily IOed SS/Shield or SS/Fire Brutes.
Masterminds are also the best AV soloists around, depending on secondary. Bots/Traps doesn't even need IOs to solo some AVs and can do insane things fully tricked out... like soloing the ITF and taking out some giant monsters solo without temp powers. About the only thing that can solo more things is an Illusion/Rad Controller with perma-PA... they can solo literally anything in the game that isn't timed or the Hamidon, assuming they have enough patience.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
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Hey, leave my Zombies alone. They do GREAT single target damage.
A lot of people swear by trap, but I can't seems to find advantage over Pain or even dark.
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A lot of people swear by trap, but I can't seems to find advantage over Pain or even dark.
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I would say the advantage to AV soloing for traps is a super-spammable immobilize (very nice in AV fights), FFG which keeps you un-mezzed, and the perma -regen from constant poison gas traps.
Pain and dark can be mezzed, neither have an immobilize, and only dark has some -regen but probably can't keep the -regen on as constantly as traps.
Traps also has an acid mortar that can be slotted with achilles.
^^ This.
Force Field Generator, Web Grenade, and Acid Mortar alone make Traps a good AV soloing set. The ability to avoid being stunned or held means you don't have to worry about losing your taunt, and perma-immobilization lets you tank an AV much easier since you can avoid the big melee attacks and PBAoEs (especially with the added defense from FFG). Add in -resist and -defense to speed up the fight and you've already got better tools than many sets. Now add in -damage, -regen, and an AoE regen boost for you and your pets and you have a very solid AV soloing machine.
Dark has plenty of debuffs and some heals, but no +defense (AVs resist most of the -tohit debuffs) or status protection and no immobilize (AVs resist slows so Tar Patch isn't enough). FF has defense and status protection, but no debuffs or immobilize and no healing. Pain has a ton of healing and status protection for the pets, but no personal status protection and minimal debuffs, plus no immobilize. And yes, the patron immobilizes can be slotted up to hold an AV... but not as well and they use more endurance doing it. Plus Web Grenade stacks enough to hold AVs and EBs with immobilization resistance... it can hold Professor Echo in place right through his Dispersion Bubble. With most AVs an immobilize is effectively 50-75% damage reduction since they can't melee you, and it's also a huge damage buff for Thugs or Bots due to the burn patches. Honestly, Web Grenade plus FFG alone would probably outdo half the other MM secondaries for AV hunting.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
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^^ This.
Force Field Generator, Web Grenade, and Acid Mortar alone make Traps a good AV soloing set. The ability to avoid being stunned or held means you don't have to worry about losing your taunt, and perma-immobilization lets you tank an AV much easier since you can avoid the big melee attacks and PBAoEs (especially with the added defense from FFG). Add in -resist and -defense to speed up the fight and you've already got better tools than many sets. Now add in -damage, -regen, and an AoE regen boost for you and your pets and you have a very solid AV soloing machine.
Dark has plenty of debuffs and some heals, but no +defense (AVs resist most of the -tohit debuffs) or status protection and no immobilize (AVs resist slows so Tar Patch isn't enough). FF has defense and status protection, but no debuffs or immobilize and no healing. Pain has a ton of healing and status protection for the pets, but no personal status protection and minimal debuffs, plus no immobilize. And yes, the patron immobilizes can be slotted up to hold an AV... but not as well and they use more endurance doing it. Plus Web Grenade stacks enough to hold AVs and EBs with immobilization resistance... it can hold Professor Echo in place right through his Dispersion Bubble. With most AVs an immobilize is effectively 50-75% damage reduction since they can't melee you, and it's also a huge damage buff for Thugs or Bots due to the burn patches. Honestly, Web Grenade plus FFG alone would probably outdo half the other MM secondaries for AV hunting.
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Damn you!!! I really want to make a traps MM now for AV soloing.
Just can't decide on bots or thugs.
Bots.
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Dark has plenty of debuffs and some heals, but no +defense
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Just had to correct this a bit. It does have shadow fall which provides some defense, and resists (to energy which is nice if you go bots) and even more nicely some rare resists to psi.
The rest I agree with, but I found that it was still pretty easy to solo a good chunk of the AV's with my bots/dark without many IO's. I also found that the to-hit debuffs and -regen still worked pretty well on the AV's. Not as easy as /traps, but still pretty darn easy.
Dark Servant has immobilize, and you can take the patron immobilize. More importantly, you can have 3 sources of hold which recharge quickly: petrifying gaze, patron hold, and Dark Servant's hold.
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Dark Servant has immobilize, and you can take the patron immobilize. More importantly, you can have 3 sources of hold which recharge quickly: petrifying gaze, patron hold, and Dark Servant's hold.
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There is no way you are stacking holds through an AV's purple triangles.
And base recharge on Dark Servant immob= 15 seconds.
Base recharge on patron immob=20 seconds.
Base recharge on web nade from traps= 4 seconds.
I think you are missing the whole "spammable" part but nice try.
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A lot of people swear by trap, but I can't seems to find advantage over Pain or even dark.
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I would say the advantage to AV soloing for traps is a super-spammable immobilize (very nice in AV fights), FFG which keeps you un-mezzed, and the perma -regen from constant poison gas traps.
Pain and dark can be mezzed, neither have an immobilize, and only dark has some -regen but probably can't keep the -regen on as constantly as traps.
Traps also has an acid mortar that can be slotted with achilles.
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O.o /poison has -regen, -heal, -special (can help prevent those nasty mez from the get go), and all of it's so very spammable.
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A lot of people swear by trap, but I can't seems to find advantage over Pain or even dark.
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I would say the advantage to AV soloing for traps is a super-spammable immobilize (very nice in AV fights), FFG which keeps you un-mezzed, and the perma -regen from constant poison gas traps.
Pain and dark can be mezzed, neither have an immobilize, and only dark has some -regen but probably can't keep the -regen on as constantly as traps.
Traps also has an acid mortar that can be slotted with achilles.
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O.o /poison has -regen, -heal, -special (can help prevent those nasty mez from the get go), and all of it's so very spammable.
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The -heal doesn't really help against AV's, not many of them have a self heal, just high regen. And the -special is going to be heavily resisted so they will still mez you, just maybe not for quite as long. But you will still be mezzed.
Poison is great for messing up an AV's regen and debuffing its resistance but that's about it. No regen aura for you and your pets, no immobilize and no real mez protection.
as I recall -special is seldom if ever resisted, it's most often an exception to the rule.
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^^ This.
Force Field Generator, Web Grenade, and Acid Mortar alone make Traps a good AV soloing set. The ability to avoid being stunned or held means you don't have to worry about losing your taunt, and perma-immobilization lets you tank an AV much easier since you can avoid the big melee attacks and PBAoEs (especially with the added defense from FFG). Add in -resist and -defense to speed up the fight and you've already got better tools than many sets. Now add in -damage, -regen, and an AoE regen boost for you and your pets and you have a very solid AV soloing machine.
Dark has plenty of debuffs and some heals, but no +defense (AVs resist most of the -tohit debuffs) or status protection and no immobilize (AVs resist slows so Tar Patch isn't enough). FF has defense and status protection, but no debuffs or immobilize and no healing. Pain has a ton of healing and status protection for the pets, but no personal status protection and minimal debuffs, plus no immobilize. And yes, the patron immobilizes can be slotted up to hold an AV... but not as well and they use more endurance doing it. Plus Web Grenade stacks enough to hold AVs and EBs with immobilization resistance... it can hold Professor Echo in place right through his Dispersion Bubble. With most AVs an immobilize is effectively 50-75% damage reduction since they can't melee you, and it's also a huge damage buff for Thugs or Bots due to the burn patches. Honestly, Web Grenade plus FFG alone would probably outdo half the other MM secondaries for AV hunting.
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Damn you!!! I really want to make a traps MM now for AV soloing.
Just can't decide on bots or thugs.
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thugs
with bots you need to take manuevers to soft cap your probots. gang war takes all 4 pet unique io's which are inexpensive atm (soon to change, buy em asap), enforcers and acid mortar can take an achille's heel proc for upwards of -60% resistance debuffing.
bots for flavor, thugs for function. thugs also has superior single target damage than bots which is quite noticeable when fighting an av
I would like to know if end-game fully IO slotted toon. Where does the MM stand versus brutes, controller, stalker etc. in therm of damage ?
And what about their soloability ?
Thanks for your time !