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Nice! Thanks for posting these up. I've been waiting to check them out to see what you can do. My current build doesn't have Shadow Maul, but I've been looking for a good reason to bring it back.
I've also just had a crazy notion to put a Fury of the Gladiator -res proc into Shadow Maul, so that it serves another purpose than just damage and the - to hit.
Time to start downloading the videos.
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Anyone know if procs work off ticks or single activation?
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Anyone know if procs work off ticks or single activation?
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Per activation.
Otherwise it would be overpowered.
Yeah, I would think that too.
But I wonder, if you have that IO in there, would it increase your solo DPS if you place that in Shadow Maul?
How about your overall DPS? If so by how much?
Werner has shown the -res proc isn't worth it in AoEs, compared to normal damage procs, unless most of what you plan to do is team AE boss farming. It was on the scrapper forum but I'm guessing it also applies to any AT as the procs have identical values regardless of AT.
(It's also about Achilles Heel, but Achilles Heel is exactly the same as Fury of the Gladiator, except it slots in different powers.)
I hate this thread. Made me do a Shield/DM tank last night. Already leveled to 12 (mix of AE and soloing).
Super fun.
Shadow Maul + Sands of Mu is just 
Yeah it is
My Shield/DM just hit 38 last night
All I can say is, this is the only character I've had that I have trouble putting down at the end of the day.
I just spec'd out of Shadow Maul though, I'm seeing if I like Smite better on my stamina-less tank that is totally reliant on when OwTS recharges and when Dark Consumption comes back.
Also, Midnight Grasp, or whatever my lvl 38 power is really named, is really cool.
Stamina-less tanking ewwwwwww!
Smite is a good power, but you might find your Stamina woes worsened with Smite over Shadow Maul. Smite's quick recharge and animation time mean you can spam it more then Shadow Maul and over the course of a fight, end up using much more Endurance.
However as a single target attack, Smite is so much more efficient then Shadow Maul. I have both in my current build (which I'm still fiddling with) so I can switch from an AOE chain to a single target chain without missing a beat (or losing any damage efficiency).
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Stamina-less tanking ewwwwwww!
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heh, some days I barely notice I don't have it, other days I really feel the hurt 
I long ago gave up the quest for a Stamina-less Tanker.
Much easier now with WP being a primary and IO sets but I just assume Stamina and move on.
Not to mention the powers I would most likely replace the Stamina line with would be the APPs, which would just make me need more then Stamina (or equivelant) useage so I'm back to square one 
Yeah, if you are worried about stamina, then I would suggest not taking Smite. On my tank I had Shadow Maul instead of Smite and I had no end issues (I had Dark Consumption and Stamina) but when I switched to Smite, all of a sudden I had to worry about it.
I'm not saying that it was a problem, but I had to manage my attacks better because the stamina bar would go down so much faster.
As others have said, if you are looking for mainly single target, then smite is better, but if you're looking for a little of everything, then grab Shadow Maul.
@Nihilii: Man really? I was hoping that with having the proc on Shadow Maul, it would make all my other attacks (SL, MG, etc) become stronger for that duration. That makes me rethink my new slotting ideas.
Edit: Ok, I just read Werner's post. I was thinking of using the proc on Shadow Maul mainly for the AV soloing thing. The only other way that I can get a -res, would be to take Laser Beam Eyes and putting an Achilles' Heel there. But maybe just putting a damage proc in SM and calling it a day should be what I do. What do you guys think?
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Yeah, if you are worried about stamina, then I would suggest not taking Smite. On my tank I had Shadow Maul instead of Smite and I had no end issues (I had Dark Consumption and Stamina) but when I switched to Smite, all of a sudden I had to worry about it.
I'm not saying that it was a problem, but I had to manage my attacks better because the stamina bar would go down so much faster.
As others have said, if you are looking for mainly single target, then smite is better, but if you're looking for a little of everything, then grab Shadow Maul.
@Nihilii: Man really? I was hoping that with having the proc on Shadow Maul, it would make all my other attacks (SL, MG, etc) become stronger for that duration. That makes me rethink my new slotting ideas.
Edit: Ok, I just read Werner's post. I was thinking of using the proc on Shadow Maul mainly for the AV soloing thing. The only other way that I can get a -res, would be to take Laser Beam Eyes and putting an Achilles' Heel there. But maybe just putting a damage proc in SM and calling it a day should be what I do. What do you guys think?
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If you are going to solo AVs you're going to want Smite (and probably a proc in it to boot).
That's why I'm keeping both Shadow Maul and Smite for now ... AOE goodness and single target kick assedness all in the same build. The current build puts out enough damage that I don't feel like I'm missing out on the APPs and will only increase as I raise my recharge and recovery.
Using SM (or LBE) in an AV soloing chain hurts more than it helps. Their low DPA decreases your overall DPS, despite the procs.
(Unless you plan to use temps such as Shivans... In which case the -res might be worth it, as you're not only boosting your own damage.)
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Using SM (or LBE) in an AV soloing chain hurts more than it helps. Their low DPA decreases your overall DPS, despite the procs.
(Unless you plan to use temps such as Shivans... In which case the -res might be worth it, as you're not only boosting your own damage.)
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LBE?
You're right about Shadow Maul although it sits just on the fence when buffed via AAO from Shields and/or Soul Drain. Those powers that are close but come in just under are good fillers if there is a gap in your attack chain (which DM doesn't have but just wanted to make the point).
I say good "fillers" in that they're not helping you kill the AV outright, but they are in effect stopping the regen to a certain point. Sets like SS and EM that have gaps in their attack chain due to long recharge times on some staple powers benefit from having these "close filler" attacks and keeps the entire chain above the DPS threshold needed to down the AV.
LBE = Laser Beam Eyes
Was going to use the Achilles' Heel proc in that one. So my goal is the ole faithful attack chain of Smite ->SL -> Smite -> MG without either of the two -res procs.
Ah... Fire Blast or Ice Blast would be a better alternative from a DPS standpoint.
True, I was just looking at it for the -res proc, thinking I had a great idea to get even more DM damage out on a tank. But the DPS gods aren't that kind.
But I was playing around with a build that had Travel Pool, Fitness, Speed and Fire Mastery (including Fireball) for an AoE SD/DM Tanker build. May actually do that one day:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Defiant: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(3), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(5)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(37), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(46), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(5), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(7), Ksmt-ToHit+(7)
Level 4: Shadow Maul -- Armgdn-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Armgdn-Dmg(43), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(43), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 6: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 8: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Zephyr-Travel(9), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(9), Zephyr-ResKB(11)
Level 10: Active Defense -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(11), HO:Membr(13)
Level 12: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15), Zephyr-ResKB(15)
Level 16: Siphon Life -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(17), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Nictus-Acc/Heal(19), Nictus-Heal(19), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(23)
Level 18: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(25), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(25), Mrcl-Rcvry+(34), Mrcl-Heal(37), RgnTis-Regen+(37)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21), P'Shift-EndMod(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Against All Odds -- Taunt-I(A)
Level 24: True Grit -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Dct'dW-Heal(42)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Oblit-%Dam(31)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(31), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Oblit-%Dam(33)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 32: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Zephyr-Travel(36), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(42), Zephyr-ResKB(46)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(36), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Midnight Grasp -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(39), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hectmb-Dam%(39), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Char -- Acc-I(A)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Apoc-Dmg(45), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(45), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Ragnrk-Knock%(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Ragnrk-Dmg(48), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 49: One with the Shield -- Empty(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Note: One with the Shield is only there for the PvP +3% IO.
Don't know if its viable or not, but if I don't respec into the AV/solo/Main tank build I'm playing around with, I may go with this one.
That would work fine for packs of minions. Packs of LTs and Bosses (and mixed packs) will cream you without Tough/Weave in my experience.
With today's game, I suggest Tough/Weave for every Tanker looking to engage in extreme tanking (with the possible exception of Stone but haven't run that lately to say for sure).
Invuln's can get away without it in normal group situations or with support.
For all others, it's a face plant waiting to happen.
I think its fine for regular missions, but yeah, AE mission will stomp all over me. I've been playing with my SD/Mace character for too long. He doesn't have Fighting on him and he can do 54 boss farms and main tank ITF, but I forget how much knockdowns help so much.
With SD/Dark you so need Fighting to help. Thanks for reminding me. Another pipe dream cruely crushed by the forums.
Well, since I'm on the topic, here is my new, upcoming build. The only difference between this new build and my current build is that with my current build I have Shadow punch slotted up (take the slots from Shadow Maul), no Shadow Maul and Taunt in its place. Kruunch has convinced me on the virtues of Shadow Maul.
Also the slots in True Grit will be 5 of the Panacea sets. I just placed the Doctored Wounds for a placeholder. Also the empty slot in OwtS is for the PvP +3% (as usual).
Let me know what you guys think as this guy will be my main/badge hunter/AV solo attempter...
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Defiant: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(7), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(9), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(11), ResDam-I(50)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Smite -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Dam%(5), Zinger-Dam%(5), Hectmb-Dam%(50)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(7), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(9), Ksmt-ToHit+(11)
Level 6: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Zephyr-ResKB(13), Zephyr-Travel(13), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(25)
Level 8: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 10: Active Defense -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(23), HO:Membr(25)
Level 12: Against All Odds -- Taunt-I(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15), Zephyr-ResKB(15)
Level 16: Siphon Life -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(17), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Nictus-Heal(19), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(19), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(36)
Level 18: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(34), Mrcl-Heal(37), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(37), Numna-Heal(37), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(39)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 24: True Grit -- RgnTis-Regen+(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(43), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(43), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Dct'dW-Heal(45), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-%Dam(34), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(29), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(29), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(31), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(33), GSFC-Build%(33)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 32: Shadow Maul -- Armgdn-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Armgdn-Dmg(42), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(42), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(36), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Midnight Grasp -- Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Hectmb-Dmg(39), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(39), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Boxing -- Amaze-ToHitDeb%(A), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(46), Amaze-Stun(46), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(46), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(48)
Level 44: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: One with the Shield -- ResDam-I(A), Empty(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Might want to take Shadow Maul earlier if you're planning on exemplaring down to grab the accolades (or to help your buddies). If not, don't worry about it.
Otherwise looks like a winner (mind you I'm not scoping out your slotting choices with a fine comb but I see you plug the Defense Debuff hole with recharge and Hamios ).
Also interesting slotting choice on Siphon Life. I may borrow that (its been driving me crazy 
).
Glad I could help
Yep, using the Hammies for the Defense Debuff resistance. Never had a real problem with cascading failure with it in ITF.
Also, based on what you said, I'm swapping spots between Shadow Maul and True Grit. I'll see how that works with exemping down.
Siphon Life has been bugging me too. That is my current slotting, though I've toyed with Numina's instead of Touch of the Nictus for similar results. The difference is endurance versus accuracy for enhancements. And with set bonuses, Regeneration versus accuracy again. There is so many ways to slot it that I'm just picking this and not looking back... much.
Really, there are two ways to socket SL. You can 5 slot touch of the nictus for a great heal or as a heavy hitter. I haven't found a 6 slot combination which would be a middle ground to the above two that I like.
True, the above is my compromise version of the best of both worlds.
But the best I've seen with regards to the best of both worlds (not perfect of course) is this:
3 Nucleous Exposures
3 Golgi Exposure
That gives you:
Accuracy: 94.93%
Damage: 94.93%
Heal: 94.93%
Endurance: 94.93%
Only thing you are missing is recharge and if you have tons of that, you can be good. Also, no set bonuses.
But yeah, Siphon Life is very subjective.
Another franken-slotting approach:
2 Nucs
2 Golgis
1 Dmg/Rech (lvl50)
1 Heal/Rech (lvl50)
Acc: 66.6%
Dmg: 90.17%
Heal: 90.17%
End: 66.6%
Rech: 53%
As mentioned, there are so many different ways to slot it. Another consideration is set bonuses. The last time I was trying to make a DM build (for my DM/Invuln) I put in 4 Kin Combats and I think a Acc/Heal and a Heal in the remaining two slots; the 3.75% s/l def took priority over maximizing SL.
(Never did assemble the build though. I was never happy with it because it either had to drop ToF [edit: or] SM.)
Nice! Thanks for posting these up. I've been waiting to check them out to see what you can do. My current build doesn't have Shadow Maul, but I've been looking for a good reason to bring it back.
I've also just had a crazy notion to put a Fury of the Gladiator -res proc into Shadow Maul, so that it serves another purpose than just damage and the - to hit.
Time to start downloading the videos.