Psychodom -an Illusion dom that may actually work.

Inspired by a request for Illusion to be ported to doms.

Now, I'm going to start out with my biases - I think Illusion, as a direct port to doms, would suck so badly nobody would have to vacuum their houses for a decade. It would put black holes to shame. It would work roughly as well with Domination - current or new - as a sheet of lead would for a flotation device. I'm not particularly fond of it as a *controller* set, due to its lack of direct control and (IMHO) wasted powers.

That said, I have to acknowledge it is a popular set, the only "pet set" we had until Masterminds, and that people may be interested in playing it redside. I just don't think it'd work very well.

So, to start with - let's look at the Illusion Control powerset:
1 Spectral Wounds 1
2 Blind 1
3 Deceive 2
4 Flash 6
5 Superior Invisibility 8
6 Group Invisibility 12
7 Phantom Army 18
8 Spectral Terror 26
9 Phantasm 32

(That's place in set - name - level available, if it's not obvious.)

So, for control (direct) we have 3 powers. One indirect control power (Spectral Terror.) One direct damage power. Two invisibilties, and two pets. When I see this, and think of Domination, I see wasted powers.

What to do?

First, we take four things into consideration -
1. Dual Builds are available,
2. We have "exclusive" powers technology thanks to the VEATs, and
3. Some people would want to play this as is, others (like me) wouldn't.
4. Dominators have a whole secondary full of damage, unlike Controllers.

What are the problems for doms?
1. Summoning pets (1/3 of the set) doesn't build domination.
2. Being invisible doesn't build domination (2 powers.)
3. Nothing that does an Immobilize. No, this doesn't hurt Mind, but Mind has far, FAR more control available to it to deal with, say, bosses and runners.

And what defines Illusion?
1. All the pets.
2. For some... invisibility.
3. The skippability of Flash. It's a REALLY bad AOE hold.

So let's rework it. Some of this will stay the same, though the names may change -
Spectral Wounds
Blind
Deceive

So far so good. Except Doms have a damage secondary, so Spectral wouldn't really work out (IMHO) in slot 1. I have nothing against damage powers in a primary, mind you - but with a primarily-damage secondary like Doms have, well.... Let's put in something that's missing.

1. Torpor - ST Immobilize/Slow. (Much like gravity, it has a distinct slow component if the Immob doesn't take.) You slow the reflexes of your target. Like in the nightmare, if they can move, they can't do it very fast.

2. Blind.
3. Deceive.
4. Paralyze - This takes some of the duty of Spectral as well as Flash. Small AOE hold that does damage - and like Chain Induction, it can "leap" from one target to another. Plus, of course, it builds Domination. (The name's a placeholder.)

Now we come to the invisibility powers, and the first toe into the exclusivity of choices -
5a. Superior Invisibility
5b. Group Invisibility.

Just like the Controller version - but picking one means you can't pick the other.

Well, this frees up a spot for a new power! We have our ST immob, ST hold, a nice confuse, and an AOE hold. We could go for another AOE effect, of course, but we've got one coming up (just wait.) At level 12, there's generally a power that's either really useful (Ice Slick, Stalagmites) or eminently skippable (dimension shift.) Some of these can be almost set defining - heck, the entire Stalker AT gets Placate here. So, what to do.

Sometimes a Dom just has to get away. Illusion, of course, hints at deception and redirection. So let's redirect aggro. We've already got confuse at a single target, we don't want to go to mass confusion - not only do some people not like it, but there's no way it'd get into a set that's somewhat pet heavy. What we could potentially use is a decoy.

6. Decoy (pet) - Low AOE damage on summon, targeted AOE summon with taunt. Stationary. (?)

If you're getting chased, you throw out a decoy that gets the attention of anything around it and does a small AOE, letting you get some range between you and them to do whatever you want to do.

7. Phantom Army. As controller version.

This is a signature power of Illusion. I'm not changing it! Aside, perhaps, from graphics.

8. Spectral Terror / Primal Fear.

Another Either/Or. Some folks may like Spectral Terror. It's a placed pet that does fear - but it wouldn't build or be buffed by domination. Me, both thematically as a Dom and mechanically to build Domination, I'd rather have Terrify or Fearsome Stare. A touch of -tohit wouldn't hurt. And we've got a whole secondary of damage, so let's take Fearsome Stare. We'll rename it.

9. Phantasm

Yeah. Like I'd change another signature pet.

So, what do we end up with?

1. Torpor
2. Blind
3. Deceive
4. Paralyze
5a. Superior Invisibility
5b. Group Invisibility
6. Decoy
7. Phantom Army
8a. Spectral Terror
8b. Primal Fear
9. Phantasm.

Potentially three more Domination-building powers, more control, yet able to be built almost exactly like Illusion for those so inclined.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Interesting idea overall, though I'm not quite sure if I like it or not.

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1. Torpor - ST Immobilize/Slow. (Much like gravity, it has a distinct slow component if the Immob doesn't take.) You slow the reflexes of your target. Like in the nightmare, if they can move, they can't do it very fast.

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It's a small thing, but whenever I see that word, I think of this. Maybe a different power name would be better?


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Another Either/Or. Some folks may like Spectral Terror. It's a placed pet that does fear - but it wouldn't build domination. Me, both thematically as a Dom and mechanically to build Domination, I'd rather have Terrify or Fearsome Stare. A touch of -tohit wouldn't hurt.

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Spectral Terror already has a -tohit though.

Hm, possibly replace Spectral Terror with:

Nightmare
Targeted AoE Sleep (Mag 3, semi-low duration), 66% chance for Mag 3 Fear, 33% chance for (an appropriate percentage) tohit debuff?

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Interesting idea overall, though I'm not quite sure if I like it or not.

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1. Torpor - ST Immobilize/Slow. (Much like gravity, it has a distinct slow component if the Immob doesn't take.) You slow the reflexes of your target. Like in the nightmare, if they can move, they can't do it very fast.

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It's a small thing, but whenever I see that word, I think of this. Maybe a different power name would be better?

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I was looking for something like lethargy, sluggishness and the like - without making it sound like a sleep power.

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Another Either/Or. Some folks may like Spectral Terror. It's a placed pet that does fear - but it wouldn't build domination. Me, both thematically as a Dom and mechanically to build Domination, I'd rather have Terrify or Fearsome Stare. A touch of -tohit wouldn't hurt.

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Spectral Terror already has a -tohit though.

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I was comparing to Terrify.

See my Guides and Tutorials

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Hm, possibly replace Spectral Terror with:

Nightmare
Targeted AoE Sleep (Mag 3, semi-low duration), 66% chance for Mag 3 Fear, 33% chance for (an appropriate percentage) tohit debuff?

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As the alternate?

See, part of what I was trying to do with it is give ST itself to those who'd want it (wanting Illusion directly, or preferring a placed Fear AOE,) while giving an alternate for those who would prefer being "the source' of the fear.

I'm eh on the sleep, personally. I use them, yes, but a nice, relaxing nap just didn't quite click with the rest of the set Plus PA and Phant would break the sleep pretty quickly.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Honestly I'd rather see what they can do with Illusion as a Mastermind set myself.

There's several other sets if you want a plain vanilla Dom. Illusion both as a Controller and as a Dominator would provide a different experience.

Take Spectral Wounds. This power is very thematic to Illusion and it a straight up blast that gives some of it's damage back. It's a signature power. It's more thematic to Dominators than to Controllers.

I see it as core to the set and would not like to see it changed.

I got no beef with your suggested changes to Flash.

As for making the Invisibilities exclusive, I don't see the point. The invisibilities aren't overpowered to have in conjunction as (arguably) having build up and follow up are. Again this is a place where people who just don't like Illusion should probably look to a different set. Mind provides a metric ton of control power for people who want a psi like controller.

Lastly, gosh darn it Bill, leave Spooky alone. Spectral Terror is Awesome.

IMO Illusion works so well because hard controls aren't useful in most of the game. Where they are, they're awesome, but often the indirect controls of the PA or Spooky do a lot better for the team.

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Take Spectral Wounds. This power is very thematic to Illusion and it a straight up blast that gives some of it's damage back. It's a signature power. It's more thematic to Dominators than to Controllers.

I see it as core to the set and would not like to see it changed.

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OK, don't change Spectral Wounds, just put it in the Illusion Assault secondary where it clearly belongs.

Woohoo, I can argue with EG

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There's several other sets if you want a plain vanilla Dom. Illusion both as a Controller and as a Dominator would provide a different experience.

Take Spectral Wounds. This power is very thematic to Illusion and it a straight up blast that gives some of it's damage back. It's a signature power. It's more thematic to Dominators than to Controllers.

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But, as mentioned, it's *redundant.* Controllers can use the damage. Dominators have an entire secondary dedicated to it. (And obviously we disagree that it's thematic, or core to the set.) Plus, more control *is* needed, really. Spectral Wounds doesn't help with a runner.

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I got no beef with your suggested changes to Flash.

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Hey, hey, now - don't end up not arguing, or even agreeing. I see what you're doing, EG, trying to confuse me...

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As for making the Invisibilities exclusive, I don't see the point. The invisibilities aren't overpowered to have in conjunction as (arguably) having build up and follow up are. Again this is a place where people who just don't like Illusion should probably look to a different set. Mind provides a metric ton of control power for people who want a psi like controller.

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Because, IMHO, it's two power slots that do nothing to help a Dominator, and do nothing to help get any control going.

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Lastly, gosh darn it Bill, leave Spooky alone. Spectral Terror is Awesome.

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Thus the "pick one or the other." It's not removed, it just has an alternate available that will help you directly build domination - and actually control what it's being applied to.

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IMO Illusion works so well because hard controls aren't useful in most of the game. Where they are, they're awesome, but often the indirect controls of the PA or Spooky do a lot better for the team.

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And I obviously disagree. My Illusion controller is one of my least played characters because of how limited it feels. Waiting on PA to recharge (it's in the mid-late 20s) drives me up the wall. Having little to nothing to do in the meantime but try to spam Blind/SW and keep something confused makes it feel useless as a controller (especially when I see the pair of invisibilities.) And if I'm about to face a boss or higher, it's sit-wait-hope everything's recharged. On a team, I'm trying to herd my PA somewhere so it's actually contributing instead of scattering.

That's not control to me. *shrug* And as mentioned, a direct port does almost nothing to help with building domination, and wouldn't benefit from the changes on test.

See my Guides and Tutorials

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Honestly I'd rather see what they can do with Illusion as a Mastermind set myself.

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That's an alternative, but IMHO it'd really lose a lot of the flavor of Illusion (which is mildly burnt-coffee-raisin-and-almond.) The pets would end up having to be vulnerable and "real," for starters.

Turning it into a mastermind set while keeping it feeling (un)real would be an... interesting challenge.

See my Guides and Tutorials

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Because, IMHO, it's two power slots that do nothing to help a Dominator, and do nothing to help get any control going.

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Tree of life get's Dom going? Or Hot Feet? Or Bonfire? Or any of the other soft controls?

Don't like 'em don't take 'em.

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Because, IMHO, it's two power slots that do nothing to help a Dominator, and do nothing to help get any control going.

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Tree of life get's Dom going? Or Hot Feet? Or Bonfire? Or any of the other soft controls?

Don't like 'em don't take 'em.

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Tree of life - one power out of nine, and it at least directly assists the team. The closest thing to a "wasted" power in a Plant dom/controller is Spore Burst.

Hot feet - A slow, a "keep away" power, and damage.

Bonfire - Placed area denial, KB if you want it for that, damage if you don't. Essentially a stronger Ice Slick or Earthquake (stronger as in KB instead of KD,) with Fire's Damage secondary effect as opposed to Ice's slow, or Earth's debuff.

Invisibility does nada. At least Stalkers get extra damage from theirs while hidden. Then there's the AOE fear (spectral,) which doesn't set up Containment for Controllers, and doesn't give Domination to Doms. PA and Phant also would not give Domination.

The only plus to giving Illusion to Doms, as is, is that at least they have a damage secondary and are *guaranteed* to be able to do SOMETHING while waiting for PA, and aren't reliant on Containment (set up only by Blind and Flash.) Plus at least their secondary isn't going to lose damage from that "healback" nonsense. They'd actually be useful from 1-32.

(I'm trying to keep my *extreme* dislike of Illusion as a so-called "control" set out of this. *blind*sw*blind*sw*blind*sw*blind*sw*yawn*)

See my Guides and Tutorials

I'mna throw a semi-non-sequitur in here, as long as we're talking about reworking Illusion for Doms.

I think, thematically, Illusion steps on the toes of Mind Control far too much. Illusion as it currently stands (again, thematically, not mechanically) is like a half-baked mind control. It can't decide whether the controller is manipulating light or the target's thoughts. I'd like to see a set that's truly an Illusion set, as in light manipulation, and not Mind Control. More Mysterio and less Mastermind.

The powers that already fit into that mold are for the most part fine:
Blind, Flash, the Invisibilities (though I think you only need one), and the pets (though I think they can be improved).

Deceive could stay largely in tact with a twist: instead of confusing the target, it should confuse everyone else. Change the effect to some sort of translucent monster that overlaps the target, and enemies aggro on to it, rather than it onto enemies. This would, however, mean that the target could still attack you, though that could possibly be hand waved away.

Because it's now a clear light manipulation set, you could replace Spectral Wounds, for example, with a direct damage light attack, like the Legacy Chain have, or a laser projection attack. I'm not sure a DD power is desirable in that slot, though.

Some holds could be added that placed a decoy 'sparring partner' next to the target. Mechanically, the target is held, but it looks like their aggro has been redirected to an illusory ally next to them. That could even work as an AOE hold - add sparring partners for everyone in the group.

I also like the decoy idea - it fits with light manipulation - place a decoy that draws everyone's aggro toward it.

The pets are great, but I feel like they could be better with some graphical changes. Change them to some definite image, maybe random, that would attract enemy attention. Like gravity's propel, it might be fun to throw various character models in there as phantoms. Maybe a Statesman phantom shows up sometimes. Maybe a U'Kon. Make them translucent.

As for the invisibilities, I feel like you could get it down to just one if that one power simply affected you and the group. That would let you throw an extra power in there. As it is, I've always felt like they threw in two invisibilities because they couldn't think of nine powers. That's probably not true, but it would be more exciting, IMO, to have extra variety in the set.

You could add another team buff if you liked, +DEF, by having something like a "shift" power, that puts ghost images to the left or right of the player, with the description that you've shifted your teams' images so they're harder to hit. That might be redundant with Invisibility, but it would be a cool effect.

Anyway, I know that's off topic from the post, but I didn't feel like it warranted its own thread because it's pretty impractical at this point. Carry on!

I don't disagree with that at all, James. And it is part of my issue with it - it's a very hodge-podge set of powers.

See my Guides and Tutorials

all my doms tend to use their secondary to build domination...

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

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Invisibility does nada.

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Well, except for that whole invisibility thing.

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Invisibility does nada.

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Well, except for that whole invisibility thing.

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So it burns end and doesn't build domination.

You're not selling me on this...

See my Guides and Tutorials

'It doesn't suit my playstyles' is not the same as 'it is completely useless.'

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I've laid out reason for my labeling it that, which is also the reason it's combined to open up a power that would actually work with the AT.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Mind explaining how this differs from the applications of Cloaking devices in gadgets?

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

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Mind explaining how this differs from the applications of Cloaking devices in gadgets?

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Does a Blaster have to build Domination? Also, and more to the point, how many power sets have *two* invisibility powers (not power pools) in them?

How does having two (the biggest issue when it comes to Invisibility in Illusion) help with Domination in the hypothetical direct-port of Illusion to Doms that sparked this? How is it at all useful for Controllers now, with the limited real control available to Illusion?

Or, to look at it another way:

What sets up Containment in an Illusion controller, right now?
- Blind
- Flash

That's it. Spectral Wounds can take advantage of it, of course. The three pet powers - no go. The confuse - nothing. The two invisibilities - nothing.

Now, looking at it from a Dominator perspective, they don't have Containment, and post I15 buff, won't need the damage boost anyway - it'll be there all the time. Domination will help with status effects- increasing your mag, and protecting against them.

What will build it?
- Spectral, if it were left in (which I doubt, personally,)
- Blind
- Flash
Trying to recall if confuse does it, I'm thinking "no" but may be wrong there. That said, we have a whole secondary to build it with.

What would take advantage of it?
- Blind
- Flash
- Deceive.

That's a pretty weak list. Invisibility isn't buffed by it. Defense isn't. The pets aren't. So what, exactly, would be the point of even paying attention to Domination other than an END refill? Might as well just port a Controller over with GR and bring breakfrees and blues.

Thus my comment on the uselessness of having invisibility - specifically *two* invisibilities in a control set. I think it's useless as a Controller and is just as counterproductive in a theoretical Dominator. If there were just one - eh, I wouldn't care all that much, as there'd probably be something useful there that actually helps in real control instead. It's also why I did the either/or in the set writeup.

See my Guides and Tutorials

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Does a Blaster have to build Domination?

[/ QUOTE ]Do you need to be seen to build domination? Don't you have an entire secondary to build domination?

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

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Does a Blaster have to build Domination?

[/ QUOTE ]Do you need to be seen to build domination? Don't you have an entire secondary to build domination?

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Did you read more than the first sentence? Or the other posts made on this?

My guess is no, as Domination (and Containment, as an aside) have been touched on further.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Two Invisibility powers in the set...give the user a choice...INVIS the whole team, or Invis just yourself.

That's part of the Illusion set.

Personally, I would think it best to just port it, then if you don't like how it plays as a Dom, don't use it.

Porting it over as is, would just mean a different playstyle for the Dom's who did want to use it.

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Does a Blaster have to build Domination?

[/ QUOTE ]Do you need to be seen to build domination? Don't you have an entire secondary to build domination?

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Did you read more than the first sentence?

[/ QUOTE ]... Ummmmm...

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