How do you explain Tankerminding in short form?
By
Bookkeeper_Jay,
Posted on: 2009-06-12 06:45 in Masterminds
"You know you would be MUCH more durable in bodyguard mode. Your pets will take part of the damage, so you'll be a LOT tougher, and they'll attack anything that attacks you." That generally works on a PUG. I've had LONG back and forths with some folks explaining it all, but that gives a quick idea.
As far as tankerminding... I've got to say none of mine have provoke. *shrug* Usually a debuff or some sort of shot gets the bad guys attention fast enough.
I'm trying to do it in a way that doesn't sound like criticism. This isn't my strong suit, but that sounds critical enough that some people would take offense.
I just need the nicest way possible to explain to MM's a concept that there is no tutorial or information for anywhere in the game, without making it sound like they're idiots for not knowing it.
It's not thier fault really. I mean the only hint that there might be something complex about being an MM in game is the disclaimer on the character creation screen that they are difficult and complex.
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I'm trying to do it in a way that doesn't sound like criticism. This isn't my strong suit, but that sounds critical enough that some people would take offense.
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That's generally what I say (through a /tell, typically) and I have yet to have anyone take offense.
Alternately, something like "I noticed your pets aren't sharing out the damage you're taking, do you know about Bodyguard? It'll really help your survival," and usually after a "Bodyguard?" in return, a longer explanation.
While we are wishing for impossible things....like PUGs having good tankerminds. Could we please get a tanker taunt level power in our primary? Because provoke sucks.
or like...I dunno reducing supremacy by half and cause it to transfer all aggro from your pets to you...yeah...something
Tankerminding: A mastermind using an AoE taunt called "Provoke" from the Presence Pool to effectively use the resistances provided by Bodyguard mode to slice incoming damage in half.
Not to mention you should make sure your pets are well protected from AoEs.
Hmmm ... Could always lead by EXAMPLE. "Ok, THIS is Tankerminding ..." The mob bombards you, and you take nearly no damage. The wannabes stand in awe and ask, "How?" It is better to SHOW en, not tell em. Its like a movie, you can read the reviews, the prequel comic, the novel based on an outdated script, but you not gonna know til you're IN the Theater.
Shigeru Miyamoto "A delayed game will eventually be good, a bad game is bad forever."
Keep in mind that in most cases, the Tankermind strategy is not the best thing for many Power Set combos, or even most of them. If you choose to use the Tankermind strategy, you really have to build to it, and know how to use your powers correctly, in addition to Provoke and Bodyguard.
I have found that the "meatshield" strategy, where I just run in and soak up damage, and if someone pulls aggro off of me they or the Brute deal with it, works 90% of the time. I also have my Secondary to fall back on to protect the team, especially with Dark and similar sets.
It's a perfectly viable strategy to expect the Brute to tank the Boss and the majority of the foes around him, and then just use your henchmen to keep targets on the fringes of the fight from overwhelming the Brute. With that many MMs on the team there should be plenty of "cannon fodder" to absorb damage, even if they're not good at tanking per se.
OTOH, if they're total idiots who can't even keep themselves alive in a team, you can still explain it to them. Bodyguard is useful even if you don't Tankermind. In fact, I would probably start by saying, "Do you have some of your henchmen in Bodyguard?" And if they say, "What's that?" explain to them about putting henchmen in Defensive Follow. Have them test it out for a while, see how resiliant it makes them, and then say, "See, you don't have to worry about getting dropped by an alpha strike. Why don't you just follow me in as I go grab aggro, and help me hold all these guys down?"
Then after they get used to that, you can casually mention that if they had Provoke, they could grab the aggro instead of you, and use Bodyguard to tank for the team.
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Could we please get a tanker taunt level power in our primary? Because provoke sucks.
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Yeah, this would be great as an option, but as I said, sometimes an MM doesn't want Provoke. What I wish you could do is slot your attacks for Taunt, and they will gain a taunt if you slot it, but until you do, they're just normal attacks.
Maybe a "Chance to Taunt" proc?
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Hmmm ... Could always lead by EXAMPLE. "Ok, THIS is Tankerminding ..." The mob bombards you, and you take nearly no damage. The wannabes stand in awe and ask, "How?" It is better to SHOW en, not tell em. Its like a movie, you can read the reviews, the prequel comic, the novel based on an outdated script, but you not gonna know til you're IN the Theater.
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I know the feeling. I remember back when I was getting sooo frustrated with teams killing my anchors on a dark/rad defender. I convinced the team to just stand back and watch for five minutes. I then dropped Darkest Night on something, and jumped in the middle to keep their attention on me. After five minutes of nearly no damage taken while 15 enemies swing at me they finally asked "How can we take advantage of that?"
At which point I started explaining about anchors, the effects of killing an anchor, and how to recognize my anchor. After that there were no more team wipes.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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Keep in mind that in most cases, the Tankermind strategy is not the best thing for many Power Set combos, or even most of them.
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Could you drop us a little info about which are? I have... hm, three MMs right now, Bots/Storm, Bots/Dark and Mercs/Traps. The /Dark is still low level and the /Storm is the only one I've tried/done extensive tankerminding with (Hurricane ftw!), so I'm no expert on the use of BG. I've used it to avoid getting two-shotted, yes; to actually tankermind (including taking Provoke), no, except for my experimentation with the Storm, which went amazingly well.
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Keep in mind that in most cases, the Tankermind strategy is not the best thing for many Power Set combos, or even most of them.
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Could you drop us a little info about which are? I have... hm, three MMs right now, Bots/Storm, Bots/Dark and Mercs/Traps. The /Dark is still low level and the /Storm is the only one I've tried/done extensive tankerminding with (Hurricane ftw!), so I'm no expert on the use of BG. I've used it to avoid getting two-shotted, yes; to actually tankermind (including taking Provoke), no, except for my experimentation with the Storm, which went amazingly well.
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Your merc/Trap is good for tankerminding if you use the pet goto to place them on the defensive somewhere to the side of you. At least 15 yards away to avoid most aoe's but within 25 yards to keep them in BG range. The Bots/Dark will also do decently well from all the -tohit, but lacks mez protection, makind the -tohit and mez's in the set your main forms of mitigation.
I like anything with bots for tanking since it adds bonus defense. My best tankermind though is my necro/storm. High ST with -tohit debuffs all over the place and many emergency buttons make it very flexible in any bad situation.
I usually tell them to switch to another build, and buy the AoE Taunt from the presence pool. Slot that puppy up with recharge, acc, and maybe some increased taunt, and have them buy everything else as normal.
Then have them head into an AE farm alone (Not to farm) to test how the taunt works for them in BG mode. If all else fails, they can switch back to the initial build and call you dumb.
Honestly, becoming a tankermind is the only thing that's kept me going this long. The last few levels have blown by.
Tankerminding saved All of my MM's from languishing in the 30's forever and made me roll many more to test out different combinations for tankerminding.
bah, I Tankermind on my Necro/Poison. Any MM build can do it, some just better than other. On this build I just wade intot melee with my pets ond defensive follow. And hit "provoke" over and over.
The one thing I find that's annoying is sometimes the pets just stand there and don't attack..can't figure out for life of me what causes that.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
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bah, I Tankermind on my Necro/Poison. Any MM build can do it, some just better than other. On this build I just wade intot melee with my pets ond defensive follow. And hit "provoke" over and over.
The one thing I find that's annoying is sometimes the pets just stand there and don't attack..can't figure out for life of me what causes that.
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Activating the "Follow Me" command causes them to become "passive" for a few short seconds. Using the Go To or Attack My Target commands overrides the Follow Me passive period.
And by passive I mean they won't attack, not that they literally go into passive mode and drop bodyguard.
Probably just explaining Bodyguard mode to them would be enough to help the group a lot.
Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
Protector
Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
Virtue
Pooka Pete
I was in a group last night on one of my brutes with a corr and 6 MM's running relentless missions.
Bots/FF
Bots/Pain
Bots/Traps
Merc/TA
Thugs/Pain
Ninja/FF
None of them had provoke or used BG mode. It was messy whenever we were fighting everything but longbow and arachnoids (things my dark/elec can actually be killed by).
Is there a simple way to explain bodyguard mode and tankerminding to a PuG? It was so frustrating. I eventually had to switch out to one of MY MM's so that we would have a tank.