Scrappers are very survivable, and DM/WP is near the top of the heap in my book.
You can't power level another one of your characters with that character though, you can only log 1 character in at a time. (Unless of course you have 2 or more accounts).
Make a man a fire and keep him warm for the day, SET a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Incarnates: K'lir(Fire/Dark Corr):Hot-House Flower(Plant/Fire Dom):Kinrad X(Kin/Rad Def):Itsy-Bitsy Spider(Crab):Two Ton Tony(Mace/WP Broot):Teeny Weeny Widow(Fortunata/Widow) : Zeroth Law (Ice/Fire Tank)
Short version: Yes & no.
Long version: The answer is yes because, depending on the skill of the player & the build choices made, Scrappers can acheive more than enough staying power to leap into the heart of an 8-person spawn & stay there until the last unit drops. In fact, with a DM/WP, this is a great opener. In that situation, if you throw down Soul Drain, you'll be at maximum strength for the duration of the buff, and enemies will feel like they're made of tissue paper. Moreover, the more enemies around you, the better you regeneration buff works. So assuming that you've properly slotted out your damage resistance & defensive skills, you can hang in there slogging away with impunity.
In the case of DM/WP, as the spawn diminishes in size, you will begin to lose that edge. Your Acc/Dmg buff will drop, and as you lose enemies within your range of RttC, you will begin regenerating more slowly. It's a matter of luck, timing, and your own personal skill to see if you kill faster than you take damage in that situation.
Ultimately though, the REAL answer to your question is no. Scrapper are, put simply, badass. But by design, Scrappers will never achieve the same levels of tankdom that an actual tank will. Pound for pound, I'd prefer the heavier offensive punch & the faster pace of a Scrapper anyday - but ultimately a tanker will always win out in damage mitigation. Tankers pay for it in the form of lower damage.
There are players who will disagree with that. Tankers can still put out alot of damage, and Scrappers can certainly take punishment. The two AT's work well together & often compete against each other to see "who's a better killer?"
Why do I do do do things I do
Nobody was ever there for me to talk to
Once I was youngster, pure and true
Now I'm running with a sick, sick crew.
My main is a 46 BS/WP. WP is amazing at tanking large spawns, with the caveat of needing a solid build and smart power choices. IO set bonuses help immensely as well.
The most challenging spawn I have tanked was an AE auto-SK to 50 8-man Rikti farming mission. The group lost members slowly as we went through the mish, and was down to only 3 members near the end. Myself, a Warshade, and a MA scrapper, who looked to be SR from what I noticed.
We started attacking a spawn, and the Warshade somehow aggroed a second spawn... and then both spawns opened multiple portals, summoning yet even more mobs. I would wager there were in excess of 50-60 mobs on-screen at this time. Needless to say, my RttC was saturated and I popped SoW as a precaution to oddles of incoming damage.
My health bar didn't budge for the entire time SoW was up. The Warshade and the MA scrapper died within 20 seconds of the fight's duration. I will also state I didn't need to use Parry from BS, as I was wondering how solid my WP defenses were. I was also running all the WP toggles, as well as Tough, Weave, and CJ. Also, no temps/insp were needed.
I was killing with abandon(and cackling madly as I was soloing the ridiculous amounts of Rikti, much to the amusement of my wife sitting next to me) and after hacking down maybe 25-30 of the enemy, SoW crashed and I lost 1/2 my end bar, which was not a big deal with QR and Stamina.
I was then taking damage, but RttC was still saturated and was keeping up with the damage with no problem. I killed all but maybe 10-15 mobs when the Warshade and MA scrapper re-entered the mish. We mopped up the last few and ended up leaving the mish. I stated that it was an awesome test of my survivability and thanked them for the team. They told me that I was insane. Scrapper mentality was too obvious, I guess.
So, I don't think a Tank could have done any better to survive that incident, and likely would have taken longer to take down the mobs in any case.
DM isn't as AoE capable as BS(which is not as good as others, of course), so PLing toons with DM will rely more on taking out Bosses w/attached spawns quickly for decent XP gain. I also have not taken Whirling Sword yet, which would have sped up the encounter considerably.
I'll throw in my toon's build if you want to see what all I had that contributed to my survivability. The last two powers will be Whirling Sword @ 47 and Hasten @ 50.
Best of luck to you!
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Gaidin Wolf: Level 46 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Broad Sword
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Hack -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Achilles-ResDeb%(31)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Heal-I(7), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(7), Mrcl-Heal(37)
Level 2: Slice -- Oblit-Acc/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(15), Oblit-Dmg(15), Oblit-%Dam(34)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- RgnTis-Regen+(A), Mrcl-Heal(5), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(5), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 6: Build Up -- AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(A), AdjTgt-Rchg(19), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(19), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 8: Parry -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(17), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), DefBuff-I(36)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(40), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A), Jump-I(46)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-Heal(25), H'zdH-Heal/EndRdx(25), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 18: Mind Over Body -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam(23), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(43)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(21), EndMod-I(21), P'Shift-End%(46)
Level 22: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Health -- Mrcl-Heal(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(40), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 26: Disembowel -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(29), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Achilles-ResDeb%(31)
Level 28: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(31), EndMod-I(37)
Level 30: Heightened Senses -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(36), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 32: Head Splitter -- Oblit-Acc/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg(34), Achilles-ResDeb%(34)
Level 35: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 38: Strength of Will -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam(39), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Tough -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42), TtmC'tng-ResDam(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(42)
Level 44: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
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To the OP...
What's your build?
Do you have Tough and Weave?
I think it's the same on an in depth analysis as it appears on the surface tankers are more survivable, and do less damage than scrappers.
They certainly overlap in the middle, though. A scrapper that focuses on survivability can outsurvive many tankers. And a tanker that focuses on damage can outdamage many scrappers.
For powerleveling another character on your own, you'd need a second account. Since kill speed is probably the name of the game, you don't want a tanker. Scrappers are probably good, but you'd want a more AoE-focused primary. Spines is ideal, but Fire and Claws are probably pretty good too. Dark Melee isn't so good due to its largely single-target nature.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
[ QUOTE ]
The most challenging spawn I have tanked was an AE auto-SK to 50 8-man Rikti farming mission. The group lost members slowly as we went through the mish, and was down to only 3 members near the end. Myself, a Warshade, and a MA scrapper, who looked to be SR from what I noticed.
[/ QUOTE ]
I always love a good scrapper story. Thanks for sharing! 
Hey guys,
First of all, thank you for taking me seriously and for the excellent information and advice.
I am definately new to CoX, but not new to MMORPGs. I at least have years of gaming under my belt and I know that's helped me a lot as I level.
I have a second account 
so that's not an issue. After making this post I created a mission that would auto-sk my alt to 35 (with me being 40) full of paragon protectors. I toned down my hazard level to 3 and went to town. Before I knew it, my alt was level 12 and I had gained almost 2 bubbles of xp. So all in all, things went well.
As for my build, it needs a lot of work. As you can imagine, being my first serious toon I may not have made the best choices. I'm kicking myself for not taking super jump so that the combat jumping would have basically been a freebie. Not that I don't enjoy air superiority.. it helped a lot in the lower levels keeping hard hitters on their butt.
Let me get my build up so I can post it for you all. Just keep in mind it's my first, and I have yet to respec him at all.
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Shadow Punch (A)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance (A)
Level 2: Smite (A)
Level 4: Fast Healing (A)
Level 6: Swift (A)
Level 8: Siphon Life (A)
Level 10: Indomitable Will (A)
Level 12: Air Superiority (A)
Level 14: Fly (A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge (A)
Level 18: Dark Consumption (A)
Level 20: Quick Recovery (A)
Level 22: Health (A)
Level 24: Stamina (A)
Level 26: Mind Over Body (A)
Level 28: Heightened Senses (A)
Level 30: Soul Drain (A)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp (A)
Level 35: Assault (A)
Level 38: Strength of Will (A)
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
I don't have my slotting done in mids. I know I regen 26hp/s base with no mobs near me.
I do believe in all honesty that my slotting is fairly good.
However, I will say that I slotted and planned things for damage, not survivability. Now I am really wishing I had at least tough and combat jumping. I'm starting to think that Assault was a bad idea - at least for what I am now planning on doing with this bad boy.
As I said earlier, I play on invincible when soloing. I don't have a *bad* build I don't think, but I could definately improve on things if I wanted to go with the survival deal instead of pure damage.
Oh, and the Regen? I'm an old school EQ player, and the Fungi Tunic was golden for it's regen. Willpower, along with Health (and stamina) is just awesome for me. I love a lot of regen. I even have one of those regen uniques that add 25% regen. It's slotted into Fast Healing (which has 4 slots so that I could still put 3 health SOs in it).
That said, I have so much to learn. I appreciate the feedback from everyone. You confirmed what I suspected. It doesn't change anything though. And heck, like I said, I had a very successful PL session earlier. And I absolutely happy with it.
I do plan on respecing (i haven't even used my other build yet) for a little more survivability and a little less raw damage. ANY advice in that department would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again guys,
~Acidon
EDIT: Okay I'm definately going to respec. My goals are to gain more survivability yet still do well enough damage to take the enemy down in a reasonable amount of time. I know that sounds *very* broad..
ANY help with my respec as far as powers and/or slotting advice would be very much appreciated. I only want to have to do this once. Thank you very much in advance to anyone who responds.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The most challenging spawn I have tanked was an AE auto-SK to 50 8-man Rikti farming mission. The group lost members slowly as we went through the mish, and was down to only 3 members near the end. Myself, a Warshade, and a MA scrapper, who looked to be SR from what I noticed.
[/ QUOTE ]
I always love a good scrapper story. Thanks for sharing!
[/ QUOTE ]
Same here. Thanks for posting that. I really enjoyed reading it.. And I love hearing about scrappers defying the laws of.. well, everything.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The most challenging spawn I have tanked was an AE auto-SK to 50 8-man Rikti farming mission. The group lost members slowly as we went through the mish, and was down to only 3 members near the end. Myself, a Warshade, and a MA scrapper, who looked to be SR from what I noticed.
[/ QUOTE ]
I always love a good scrapper story. Thanks for sharing!
[/ QUOTE ]
Same here. Thanks for posting that. I really enjoyed reading it.. And I love hearing about scrappers defying the laws of.. well, everything.
[/ QUOTE ]
No problem. 
I don't usually post my accomplishments on the forums, but this was such a fun one (and seemed pertinent), that I couldn't resist.
As far as your respec, focus on +HP before +regen in IO set bonuses, as it has a greater effect on your regen, as well as helps improve alpha survivability. After that, defense is the best for WP to focus on, allowing time for your regen to do it's job. WP generally gains more from typed def, which is usually easier/less expensive to come by than positional def, and can stack with Heightened Senses.
As long as you can kill things fast enough, you're fine. I do farms with my sg on my spines/regen. We do 6 person battle maiden farms and I usually just go off on my own and murder everything before it dents my mitigationless health bar too much. If you plan to farm, I would strongly suggest picking body mastery power pool for that powersled attack. It is a good cone with a handy knockDOWN component.
[ QUOTE ]
As far as your respec, focus on +HP before +regen in IO set bonuses, as it has a greater effect on your regen, as well as helps improve alpha survivability. After that, defense is the best for WP to focus on, allowing time for your regen to do it's job. WP generally gains more from typed def, which is usually easier/less expensive to come by than positional def, and can stack with Heightened Senses.
[/ QUOTE ]
This. Also, make sure you take indom will at lvl 10. Being new to the game, you may have missed the positron TF and may want to do it later to get the accolade to raise your hit points. As a scrapper, you will get held and stun a lot with out it. WP is one of the few sets that get it's mez protection before lvl 14. When you do the positron task force, all powers taken after lvl 14 won't be usable (I know 15 is the level max but you don't take a power at that level).
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
[ QUOTE ]
Let me get my build up so I can post it for you all. Just keep in mind it's my first, and I have yet to respec him at all.
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Shadow Punch (A)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance (A)
Level 2: Smite (A)
Level 4: Fast Healing (A)
Level 6: Swift (A)
Level 8: Siphon Life (A)
Level 10: Indomitable Will (A)
Level 12: Air Superiority (A)
Level 14: Fly (A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge (A)
Level 18: Dark Consumption (A)
Level 20: Quick Recovery (A)
Level 22: Health (A)
Level 24: Stamina (A)
Level 26: Mind Over Body (A)
Level 28: Heightened Senses (A)
Level 30: Soul Drain (A)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp (A)
Level 35: Assault (A)
Level 38: Strength of Will (A)
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
Okay I'm definately going to respec. My goals are to gain more survivability yet still do well enough damage to take the enemy down in a reasonable amount of time. I know that sounds *very* broad..
ANY help with my respec as far as powers and/or slotting advice would be very much appreciated. I only want to have to do this once. Thank you very much in advance to anyone who responds.
[/ QUOTE ]
Get Tough and Weave from Fighting Power Pool and you will notice a big difference in survivability.
Thanks guys!
Other than what was mentioned, i'm going to assume that the rest of my build is fine then.
I appreciate the advice. Also, I have not done *any* TF's.. I pretty much soloed my way up and had no idea what I was missing until recently.
I always take status protection as soon as it's available, so no problem there. I'll make sure my build is friendly to being exemplar'd.
On another note, I used SoW for the first time last night. I have to say that I'm impressed with it. I hopped in the middle of another group of 8 paragon protectors, and being in my scrappy zone, I didn't notice how close the next group of them was. Well all the sudden there's 16 of them on me. That's a little too much damage for my regen (i've been in that situation before), so I hit my SoW button (luckily I remembered I even had it!), and bam! My regen could keep up all the sudden and was promptly filling my health bar. I proceeded to dispatch the pp's and all said and done I didn't die. I didn't even notice the crash to be honest.
So that's my big story.
Since I don't yet have any respecs (since i haven't done any TF's), I'm going to use my second build to redo my build.
Another question, totally unrelated.. I was in the original beta, but didn't play after release until a few months ago (not counting a trial here and there). If I were to activate my beta account, would those characters still be there? I guess I'm asking if they did a wipe before release, I can't honestly remember.
Thanks!
Acidon
[ QUOTE ]
Another question, totally unrelated.. I was in the original beta, but didn't play after release until a few months ago (not counting a trial here and there). If I were to activate my beta account, would those characters still be there? I guess I'm asking if they did a wipe before release, I can't honestly remember.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure they did a wipe before release. None of my old beta characters are on the beta server anyway, but I could easily have deleted them since then.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Okay, so I'm not 50.. But as a new player, 40 seems hawt.
I have a couple of questions for the masters. First, I watch tankers hop in the middle of a huge mob of mobs. They not only survive, but they solo the whole damn mess.
At my level, I do this as well (with certain mobs), but with some of the same mobs I see them do this, I can sometimes fall short..
I'm just wondering, in a general manner, how scrappers compare to tankers in this regard. I understand that powersets and builds make all the difference, but generally.. Can we pull this off so consistently with whatever mobs are thrown at us?
My scrapper in question is a DM/WP. I love him. I play on Invincible and continue to amaze myself. I can't imagine a more fun AT to be honest.
What I am wondering, down the line, is if my scrapper will be able to PL other chars on my other acct with as much success as the tanker I've seen in action. I mean, here we are, a group, and this guy doesn't need anyone else.
I know my scrapper is like that, and I group sometimes just for the social aspect, but I wonder if I would survive the same level of intensity that he does. I know tankers are supposed to be more survivable - i understand that's what they are there for.
I only ask because after playing for 3 months before finding a powerset combo that i enjoy the most, I am so sick of the 1 to 25 game right now. I know that will change in time and I will want to experience all that again.. maybe.. But if I can skip the 1 to 25 on my future toons by PLing them, all the better. I know some people are against this type of PLing. And to be honest I am against PLing someone to 50 because then they have no idea what they are doing. But if I am PLing another scrapper to 25ish, I'll know what I am doing.
In DAoC, if you have a level 50 char, your other chars can start at level 20.. I think that's a killer system. At least that's how it was in the beginning.. haven't played that for years. In fact I think they increased the level cap since then.. Anyway!
I know I'm gonna get flamed for having such a scatterbrained post.. But that's okay. If I get any info out of this at all it will be worth it.
Essentially, I am asking this:
1) Can a scrapper achieve that type of consistent survivability (Can a Willpwer scrapper achieve it)
I know I'm looking way far in the future. I still have 10 more awesome levels to go to 50 and there is so much more I intend to experience during that time. I am just wondering if I would have to create a tanker and level him to 50 to achieve what I am asking. If so, I doubt I will do it. If so, I will just PL at a slower rate (and that's fine).
To anyone that actually read this entire post, thank you (and wow!). To any that gives me insight/information, I really appreciate it.
Acidon