Not: fire/, inv/, stone/ (mobility is important to me)
stone has mobility problems, fire doesnt, nor invul.
Now, invul/ and willpower/ both have an aura who's value (defense or regen) depends on # of foes in range, thus, if you run around a lot, with few foes in range, you will get less benefit.
ice/ is NOT gimpy. From a pure SO build, I'd say fire/ and stone/ (sans granite) are gimpy (both are on your exclude list).
Those 3 your looking at are all excellent:
ice/fire - no endurance problems, lots of aoe's.
dark/mace - good stacking of stuns
shield/axe - I dont have axe :S, but I like shield a lot.
shield - easy to cap defenses, no native self heal. You get a +dam aura.
ice - more vulnerable to psi and fire, but has a great self heal, -dam/-rech aura, and hibernate (best tier 9 sans granite, imho).
Plus EA lets you never run out of blue again. For me, ice/ and wp/ are the best starter tank armors.
dark - lots of mitigation through stuns, fear, and heals. Little defense and subpar resistance. If you can add additional fear/stuns (and end reduction to dark regen), you will become a beast. mace (stuns) and presence pool are just so overpowered with dark, its not remotely funny (hint, hint).
/fire - gives best aoe damage, but no mitigation by itself.
/axe - no experience
/mace - I actually love this set, and the damage types have stun (which will stack nicely with dark)
I honestly believe you wont go wrong with any of those 3.
50 Tanks: Invul/ss, Fire/ice/fire, Ice/em, Stone/fire
WP/Stone, dark/dark, shld/mace
50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl
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I honestly believe you wont go wrong with any of those 3.
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Good stuff in that post up there! I have a Dark/Mace coming up on 20. It's slow to get started, but quite a bit of potential in that build.
The biggest mistake you could possibly make would be to neglect your secondary early on. Back in I2 or whatever it was a great idea to focus on primary powers first, but now your defenses are too low without SOs.
Make sure you have a decent attack chain before you start grabbing anything but the essential defense powers and you'll enjoy your tanker a lot more. Even if you pick up all the defenses in the world 1-20 you're still going to go splat without buffs etc. AND you will suck at soloing.
As for which of your builds to pick, I vote dark/mace or shield/axe. Ice is fun and all, but I like the other two choices more. I never even THOUGHT of stacking stuns w/ dark though....Sounds like a good idea.
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
Shield, paired with Axe or Mace. They work well together thematically. Axe and Mace are both solid sets, with nothing you could call 'bad', although most people respec out of, or skip, the tier 2 attack. Axe is all knockdown, which is great for mitigation. Mace is a mix of knockdown and stuns (which I hate), but with slightly better aoe's.
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The biggest mistake you could possibly make would be to neglect your secondary early on.
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This is a very good point. Early on, it's attacks that keep you alive because often the defenses are pathetic. Tankers are a good AT, but they don't start to mature until after SO's (22) so you really need to hang on till then.
Try this guide for some help. It's Shield/Mace, but as I said, Mace and Axe are fairly similar. Here is a guide to axe, and here is another for War Mace. All in all if you go the Shield and Weapon route, you should be sitting pretty with those guides helping you out.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
I'd third the idea that you should, early on, focus on taking your attacks. You aren't going to be much of a tank anyways, may as well get through those early levels as quickly as possible.
As for combos, I'd give /DB a look, if for no other reason than you don't want to and don't think it fits thematically. I did that with Spines on my Scrapper and have never looked back. After my experiences of falling in love with Spines, I gave DB a look on a Brute (love it), Plants a look on a Controller (its growing on me! Get it?), and so on.
Good luck, hope you find a combo that works for your style.
Thanks for all the great replies, everyone! I've decided to go with dark/mace (at least for my first tank... I definitely want to try the other combos eventually : ). I'm struggling with the power picks, so I have a lot of build questions!
Here's my Mid's build so far. I'm mainly concerned about choosing powers in a good order, so I haven't bothered with slots yet. I'm not really a fan of planning for a respec, but I'm open to suggestions.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]
Level 48 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Bash -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Murky Cloud -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Jawbreaker -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Obsidian Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Dark Regeneration -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Death Shroud -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Clobber -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Taunt -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Oppressive Gloom -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Whirling Mace -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Tough -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Cloak of Darkness -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Shatter -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Weave -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Cloak of Fear -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Build Up -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Empty(A)
------------
Powers I'm torn/iffy/wondering about:
<ul type="square">[*]Taunt - Ah, the age old question! I definitely can appreciate/understand its usefulness (autohit and ranged), but I also think I have enough experience with aggro management that I'll quickly master punchvoking. Does taunt have any effect on disoriented targets? would they start wandering back toward me?
[*]Health - Should I shot this baby up? How early on?
[*]Build Up - Hello, old friend! I would love to squeeze this power into my build to make good use of my delicious AoE potential, but am having trouble fitting it in. Thoughts?
[*]Super Jump - Gotta love combat jumping, but I'm thinking of skipping SJ to make room for more fun powers. I know this is a subjective question, but if I 3-slotted hurdle, would I be decently fast enough to get around comfortably? Also, is CJ worth slotting for defense eventually? or is the base 2.5% too piddly? And which power do you guys like to stick KB protection and the +3% def IOs into?
[*]Cloak of Darkness - Not necessary need since I'll have combat jumping, but the def is nice and I like stealth powers. Does the stealth ever interfere with your ability to grab aggro off a teammate? What's a good level to take this power?
[*]Cloak of Fear - This power looks pretty sweet and fears are awesome in general, but the end cost is as huge as death shroud (.52/s). This could help when the enemy is resistant to my disorients, and the toHit debuff is nice I guess, but I'm undecided. If I take it, what's a good level to do so?
[*]Boxing/Tough/Weave - I've never taken these powers on any character, but definitely would love to be (somewhat) indestructible. Since I'll only have 2 Mace attacks until 22 I'm considering taking boxing early just to fill out my attack chain in the low levels. Tough would definitely be a welcomed addition to the relatively low base resist of dark embrace, but it's another toggle (and this build could have up to TEN toggles going at once !), so I dunno.
[*]As for Weave-- Worth it? I have no idea. Is stacking defense really only worth it if you're shooting for the soft-cap? I figure every little bit counts.
[*]Lastly: Ancillary Pools - I've never dipped into these pools, but after perusing them on Mid's, I'm rather underwhelmed. The only things that really appeal to me are either stone prison/quicksand or chillblain/shiver/ice storm (immob/slows + my disorients = good?). But honestly, if they're not that great, I'd rather take more of the awesome aforementioned powers![/list]Sorry for the length! As always, any advice or commentary is greatly appreciated!
Taunt - They'll come back when they're no longer stunned. They'll still be stunned and wandering, but they'll still be focussed on you.
Health - Yes. Health works best on tankers because of our high HP. I wouldn't really call it a priority though. Whenever you can find slots. I usuall just dump the next two slots I get into it and be done with it.
Build Up - Not a favourite of mine. If you can fit it in, great. If not, no biggie. I just hate having to click the damn thing all the time.
Super Jump - If you need the slot, skip it. Hurdle + CJ should do fine as a travel power, if a bit slower and less versatile than actual CJ. I like slotting CJ for defense if I have extra slots, or for some of the interesting uniques that come with the defense sets.
Cloak of Darkness - Stealth doesn't interfere with holding aggro, though it can play some havoc with getting aggro. Make sure your team understands that you're stealthed and to stay back a ways, or else they'll be taking the alphas for you.
Cloak of Fear - no clue
Boxing/Tough/Weave - I definitely recommend picking up Tough on most tankers for heavy tanking duties. It's a great choice and adds a lot of mitigation. Boxing will cause redraw, so it's up to you whether that irritates you.
Weave - Meh. I like it on Def heavy builds, but I'm not a huge fan otherwise. Too much end for so little benefit.
APP's - Try them out. If you don't like them, respec. They don't exactly float my boat, so I usually skip them entirely, but some people swear by them. I usually find better choices elsewhere.
As for suggestions, get the Theft of Essence Chance for +End and stick it into Dark Regen. Haven't tried it yet myself, but I hear it does wonders to balance out it's heavy end usage.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
Taunt: It's not a "must have", but I always take it on my tanks. As Starflier noted, stunned foes will come back to you (and get stunned again) when they wake up, so that's not an issue. If you plan to team a lot, I think it's worth having, for the -range if nothing else.
Health: Yes, definitely slot it up. I usually have too many other things to slot to get to it before the 30s, though.
Build Up: Personal preference here; I do a lot of soloing so I always take Build Up, usually in the 30s. I almost always take Hasten on my tanks for the same reason.
Super Jump: With all the temp travel powers available, going without a 'real' travel power is easier than it's ever been. However, if you are going to skip SJ--and consequently Acro--you're going to have to plan to buy some -KB IOs for KB protection since there isn't any in DA.
Cloak of Darkness: I love this power--it has as much def as Weave, in addition to the stealth and +perception. I didn't take CJ on my Dark/Mace, so I grabbed it in the early 30s for immob protection. And no, I've not had problem losing aggro because of it--but then, I'm usually running Death Shroud at the same time, which certainly gets their attention.
Cloak of Fear: You pretty much hit the nail on the head--it's costly, but very useful for mobs like the Cimerorans that are stun resistant. I take it late and frankenslot it for Accuracy and End reduction. It's not an 'every fight' power like DS or OG, but it definitely comes in handy on occasion.
Fighting Pool: I took Tough but not Weave on my Dark/Mace, in part because it wouldn't fit, and in part because as you mentioned, it's another darn toggle to run. However, with IO sets you can boost your typed def a non-trivial amount without it; my plan build has ~32% S/L def and ~33% E/NE def without Weave or CJ. And IO bonuses require no endurance; as you've probably guessed, end management is a challenge with DA.
Ancillary Pools: I always run out of room to fit them in! However, I have taken Conserve Power before, and it's useful for a endurance heavy build like this, especially if you don't want to invest heavily in IOs.
One other note: I took Jawbreaker while leveling because I found the KU so helpful, but once you have Shatter and CC it's not so necessary. So I respeced into Pulverize--it's a quicker attack, and gives you one more tool to stack stuns.
Hope that helps!
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Hi all! I've been playing CoH since launch (a month here, a month there), but never had any 50s (my interest usually tapers off in the mid-late 30s). I usually favor scrappers, defenders, controllers, corruptors, and brutes.
. Throw on top of this a travel power, obligatory fitness, the ever present questions of taunt, tough, and weave, and it's understandable why I've avoided tanks so long!
. I'm sure I'll have more questions to follow!
So here's the deal: In all this time, I've never played a tanker! Spoiled by the incredible damage of scrappers and brutes, I always figured tankers were incredibly gimpy in the damage department. Lately however, I've managed to overcome this stigma.
The other day my friend made the astute observation that I try and tank with all my heroes. And yeah, it's pretty much true-- I herd with scrappers, anchor toggles, herdicane, what have you, and I always try and pull aggro off teammates in need. So! I've decided it's time to buckle down and try a real tank! Help me decide on what to make
Ideally I want a tank that can dish out both decent AoE and ST damage. Generally I like trying powersets that are unfamiliar to me, or unusual combos with cool synergy. I have claws/SR, spines/dark, and BS/regen scrappers, DM/WP and stone/fire brutes, all around the late 30s. I've also tried spines/inv, dark/dark scrappers to around 32.
Thoughts so far:
<ul type="square">[*]Not: fire/, inv/, stone/ (mobility is important to me)[*]I'm leaning toward ice/, dark/, or shield/.[*]I'm open to most secondaries... but I think dual blades on a tanker is just dumb (thematically), but I haven't tried the set yet so it could be fun... Also I fear that /ice is just gimpy, and that /SS is too vanilla (feel free to prove me wrong, though)[/list]
Here are my ideas:
<ul type="square">[*]ice/fire -- I read Garthalus' excellent guide and am intrigued[*]dark/mace (or /EM, or /stone) -- Stacking disorient with oppressive gloom sounds fun and powerful![*]shield/axe -- Knockdown comboing with shield charge! Viking look![/list]
Unfortunately, I'm getting kind of frustrating trying to throw a build together on Mid's since I want a lot of powers, but so many are unskippable. And to actually tank decently early on, I feel like you have to neglect your secondary a ton
So! any advice at all would be greatly appreciated! Feel free to suggest completely different *fun* builds. Perhaps with your help I'll discover my passion