CT: Offensive vs TT: Leadership, Widow

Black_Strike · 05-31-2009 06:07 AM

Cobat Training Offensive is an Accuracy Buff.

Tactical Training Leadership is a To-Hit Buff.

In a guide I read, the poster recomended omitting Offensive in favor of Leadership at some point in your build. Stating that the To-Hit Buff of Leadership would more effectively result in more hits than the Accuracy of Offensive.

I have noticed in some builds posted on the Forum that alot of builds include both.

Is it a good idea to omit on in favor of the other?

And is Leadership more advantageous if you did omit one?

I'm not all that up on all the math of the combat equations, lol.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow

Soul_Fane · 05-31-2009 09:49 AM

Your accuracy is a multiplier to your tohit value.

With the standard loadout of 2 accuracy SO's per attack, you'll have 1.66 accuracy, and combat offense gives 10% additional accuracy, or 1.76 in the end. 1.76x.75=132% chance tohit(countered by higher level enemies and defense).

Leadership gives 10% to your tohit value. 1.66x.85=141% chance tohit.

Combat offense is also passive, and gives tohit debuff resistance, while leadership affects your whole team, gives a sizable perception buff, and grants some confuse and fear protection as well as resistance.

In my experience, Leadership is something you want to take early, but not sacrifice your offense or defense for, so late 20's or early 30's, and combat offense is something you take really late if you can afford to fit it in your build.

Daemodand · 05-31-2009 11:35 AM

Skip CT:O, it is junk.

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Darth_Khasei · 05-31-2009 01:42 PM

Yeah think that until you meet -to hitters like COT.

The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

JAXMAN · 05-31-2009 04:23 PM

I've always found endurance to be an issue with my Widow, early I went with the Passive to save End and respec out of it later for TT:L, and didn't take it late, just too many better powers in my opinion.

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TwinBlades_01 · 06-01-2009 10:04 AM

I take CT:O somewhere between 1-20 before Stamina and SOs, and respec out of it and replace it with Hurdle/Swift/Health at 20 for Stamina.

Malakim · 06-02-2009 02:47 PM

CT:O is quite useful early on, when you need the accuracy.

In the later game, especially with IOs, it's role is pretty much deminished to zero. I still have this on my NW, but it's going to be the first thing to go when I respec.

L:TT, although helps your whole team, takes a bit too much end for my tastes. After 20 or so, your teammates should have thier accuracy sufficienly slotted though so it's not useful for that. What could be useful is the team perception bonus though. If you find yourself going up against a lot of night widows, it could be useful against thier smoke grenades. And for that you would not need it on all the time, just turn it on when fighting NWs.

Still, that's a pretty lame use for a slot.

Unlike maneuvers and assault (which every SOA should take), leadership is of less use.

Malakim

-Playing since COH beta and still love the game!

Electora · 06-03-2009 11:54 PM

CT:O even if 3 sloted for Acc with SO (or IOs)
will give around one DO of ACC to your attacks.

TT:L will give you 10% to hit even if unsloted for
to hit, that is a bigger bounus to your over all
"hitting" then you get with CT:O

Were SoA leadership toggles are cheap to run end
wise, and if you use IOs the fact that acc bonuses
are quite common, leaving off CT:O once you hit
your lv 24 respec is very common and IMO the
better bang for your buck.

Not to say the to hit debuff resistance isnt bad, it
just isn't quite large enough for me to justify this
power when with IOs and standard sloting I usualy
have over 70% acc as it is.

Madam_Enigma · 06-07-2009 05:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Cobat Training Offensive is an Accuracy Buff.

Tactical Training Leadership is a To-Hit Buff.

In a guide I read, the poster recomended omitting Offensive in favor of Leadership at some point in your build. Stating that the To-Hit Buff of Leadership would more effectively result in more hits than the Accuracy of Offensive.

I have noticed in some builds posted on the Forum that alot of builds include both.

Is it a good idea to omit on in favor of the other?

And is Leadership more advantageous if you did omit one?

I'm not all that up on all the math of the combat equations, lol.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

My two cents will be backed by in game numbers too. First of all, I'm not slotting any ACC in my attacks. And you can't slot ACC in vet attacks. Keep that in mind.

Base to-hit value: 77% (huh? How'd it get higher then the 75% base?)

Accuracy Modifier: 1.16 (that's 1 TO, and two level 15 IO's in OT:O)

Actual chance to hit with a primary set attack: 81.69% before defense debuffs or to-hit debuffs

For no accuracy slotted in an attack, that's pretty good. And I quickly hit 95% chance to hit without debuffing.

Actual chance to hit with Nemesis Staff: 77.8% (ok, that's not much but it is higher then my base accuracy)

Sands of Mu has the same chance to hit. Since they have an accuracy modifier of 1.00 baked in that means that they get benifit from Combat Training: Offensive. Somehow I got a feeling that they had a better chance to hit then it says. Either way that's an improvement.

Stack Tactical Training: Leadership on top and it's even more likely you'll hit. That'll easily get you hitting 95% of the time. So with 3 ACC enhancements you improve your accuracy with all powers, even ones you can't slot. Not bad if you ask me.

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Inashi · 06-08-2009 07:17 AM

I'm an advocate of using OT:O pre-24. It frees up some of your very limited slots available at those levels to beef your attacks more with damage and end redux. It's not stellar, but pre-22 it's as good as adding an extra slot with a DO to every attack power you have (even ones you can't slot as Madam_Enigma points out).

After that though, I'd only consider keeping it if you don't plan to start slotting IOs anytime soon, and even then I think it's a tad on the "iffy" side. On the bright side, it meshes beautifully with Follow-Up, Mind Link, and TT:T which all give To-Hit bonuses that are multiplied by the bonus from OT:O to give a bigger net gain. That could open some interesting build options with little or no accuracy slotting in attacks and lots more +dam, +rech, and end redux piled in then usual.