Thugs/Pain - Help?


Auspice

 

Posted

Hi, just looking for help with power selection and slotting for a Thugs/Pain Mastermind.

I've come back to the game after a hiatus, and quite a few things have changed! But I set my mind on my theme already, and would really like some suggestions.

Thank you for your time.


 

Posted

A lot will depend on your play style. If you like to be more active then your MM might want to take a few attacks. If you have no problem letting the thugs do the lifting then skip most of those (I always take one to pull with) and lean more towards the Secondary.

The first two heals from Pain are a must. One works for the guys close to you, the Soothe for the Bruiser or any stragglers. I would go 4 slots for each eventually, one Rech, one End Redux and two Heals.

Skip Share pain. You can't heal yourself for a few seconds afterwards and the damage buff is not useful to you.

If you solo a lot you can skip Conduit or put it in your second (team) build. It doesn't work on pets so useless solo.

Likewise Enforced Morale. It'll help the pets later on if they get stunned but less useful if you solo.

Suppress Pain is da shite. Take it...slot it with 3 Heals...use it alla time. The more Health the pets regen the less you have to heal.

World of Pain I like for Boss fights and the like. Coupled with hasten it'll be up pretty frequently and the 90 second duration should last some EB fights as well. Doubly good in a team, triply so in a team with other MMs.

Anguishing Cry and painbringer are the same...good for 90 seconds worth of carnage. Stack all three for an AV fight or cycle them throughout the mission (fully slotted with 3 Recharge IOs they should have one up at all times).

On a golden moment when you have everything running and hit Gang War most enemies will go away with shocking speed.

If you REALLY wanna rock the house (and you subscribe to the 'MM with few attacks' school) then take the first three leadership Powers to boot. It stacks with the Enforcer's mini-Leadership and adds appreciable damage.


"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"

 

Posted

I should have elaborated a bit.

I'm level 26 currently, and I enjoy the back-up/healing support type role. I only picked "Dual Wield" from Thugs for my theme, because it looks cool!

How about slotting my Thugs? Enforcers? Brute?


 

Posted

This is my current Thug/Pain build (not quite to 50th yet, but getting closer).

The general philosophy I have for her is to boost the pets up with World of Pain (with the two +resist auras it gives the thugs around 37% to everything, the enforcers just over 60% to lethal, and the bruiser over 60% to smash/lethal), toss Painbringer onto the bruiser, and then charge in to soak the alpha. Against EBs, I'll keep them taunted and focused on me while the pets go to work. With the resists I've got, combined with bodyguard mode and insane amounts of regen, I can just stand there smirking annoyingly as they try to hurt me.

I took the two gun attacks because, honestly, I can add more damage to the total than I could with Assault, and while Maneuvers would add a bit more defense to the pets, taunting keeps most of the damage focused on me anyway.

The only thing that really gives me pause are the Knives, due to the ridiculous amounts of caltrops, which scatter my pets all over the place.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 50 Mutation Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Thugs
Secondary Power Set: Pain Domination
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
------------
Level 1: Call Thugs EdctM'r-Dmg(A), EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg(3), EdctM'r-Dmg/EndRdx(3), EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), Acc-I(5), ExStrk-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Nullify Pain Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(7), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Tr'ge-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Tr'ge-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 2: Dual Wield Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15)
Level 4: Soothe Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(15), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(17), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 6: Equip Thugs EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(19)
Level 8: Pistols Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21)
Level 10: Hasten RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 12: Call Enforcer EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg(23), EdctM'r-Dmg/EndRdx(25), EdctM'r-Dmg(25), Acc-I(27), LdyGrey-%Dam(27)
Level 14: Super Speed Run-I(A)
Level 16: Swift Run-I(A)
Level 18: Health Heal-I(A), Heal-I(40), RgnTis-Regen+(40)
Level 20: Stamina P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(29), P'Shift-EndMod(29)
Level 22: Suppress Pain Heal-I(A), Heal-I(31), Heal-I(31)
Level 24: Challenge Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(31), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(33), Zinger-Dam%(33), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(33)
Level 26: Call Bruiser EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg(34), EdctM'r-Dmg/EndRdx(34), EdctM'r-Dmg(34), Acc-I(36), ExStrk-Dam%(36)
Level 28: World of Pain Aegis-Psi/Status(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(36), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(37), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(37), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(37), S'fstPrt-ResKB(39)
Level 30: Gang War SvgnRt-PetResDam(A), C'Arms-+Def(Pets)(39), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(39), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 32: Upgrade Equipment EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(42)
Level 35: Anguishing Cry AnWeak-DefDeb(A), AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb(42), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(42), AnWeak-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(43), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(43), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 38: Painbringer Dct'dW-Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(45), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(45), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(45), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 41: Charged Armor TtmC'tng-ResDam(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(46), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(46), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 44: Electrifying Fences TotHntr-Dam%(A), TotHntr-Acc/Rchg(48), TotHntr-Immob/Acc(48), TotHntr-Acc/EndRdx(50), TotHntr-Acc/Immob/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Boxing Acc-I(A)
Level 49: Tough Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy



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The Mastermind Project
Leveling every primary/secondary to 50!
50: Bot/FF, Bot/Dark, Ninja/Trap, Merc/Pain, Necro/Dark, Thug/Dark
Works in Progress: Thug/TA, Merc/Poison, Thug/Pain, Ninja/Pain, Thug/Storm

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

Skip Share pain. You can't heal yourself for a few seconds afterwards and the damage buff is not useful to you.


[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't skip share pain.....


 

Posted

Share Pain is one of those great and hateful powers. My arsonist likes to run right into the midst of the mob while everyone else hangs back and lets loose the hail of lead. I'm always hitting him with Share Pain because his hp drops to almost nothing within seconds of his Leroy Jenkins maneuver. You just have to be careful because share pain also prevents you from being healed - even from your own greens. Watch the aggro and the blinking share pain symbol. I totally discount the damage bonus but like the "near zero to full" hp boost on my defenseless minions.


 

Posted

I never take Share Pain.

Soothe and Nullify Pain suffice for any healing I need to toss at my pets. With slotting, Soothe has around a 2 second recast time, and NP is at around 4-4.5 seconds, and one shot of Soothe can take a tier-1 pet from zero to nearly full.

The fact that Share Pain prevents you from being healed (as well as killing your regen) makes it useless to me, given my play style.


The Mastermind Project
Leveling every primary/secondary to 50!
50: Bot/FF, Bot/Dark, Ninja/Trap, Merc/Pain, Necro/Dark, Thug/Dark
Works in Progress: Thug/TA, Merc/Poison, Thug/Pain, Ninja/Pain, Thug/Storm

 

Posted

Tough appears to be unnecessary seeing as youy have both BG mode and the Charged Armor.

I would suggest possibly leadership, but that's just my opinion.


 

Posted

WTF skip share pain?

You've got to be kidding me.

It's a gigantic heal with a minor penalty (-100% regen and can't heal). Pain masterminds get a +400% regen pbaoe toggle! So you still run around with 400+% regen depending on health and other bonuses, and bodyguard mode reduces the health cost for share pain.

DON'T SKIP SHARE PAIN CAUSE IT'S OVERPOWERED


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
WTF skip share pain?

You've got to be kidding me.

It's a gigantic heal with a minor penalty (-100% regen and can't heal). Pain masterminds get a +400% regen pbaoe toggle! So you still run around with 400+% regen depending on health and other bonuses, and bodyguard mode reduces the health cost for share pain.

DON'T SKIP SHARE PAIN CAUSE IT'S OVERPOWERED

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally, someone else who realizes the -regen in share pain is weak.

Yes, share pain is a very good and very situational heal. Keeps your bruiser or any other pet alive quickly in case of emergencies.


 

Posted

Finally? Man, I've been preaching share + suppress hax since i13 beta, just nobody listened. I was like "SELF DAMAGE REDUCED BY BODYGUARD" and deaf ears.

People just think all there is to pain is rocking the aura and petcom_all aggressive.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF skip share pain?

You've got to be kidding me.

It's a gigantic heal with a minor penalty (-100% regen and can't heal). Pain masterminds get a +400% regen pbaoe toggle! So you still run around with 400+% regen depending on health and other bonuses, and bodyguard mode reduces the health cost for share pain.

DON'T SKIP SHARE PAIN CAUSE IT'S OVERPOWERED

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally, someone else who realizes the -regen in share pain is weak.

Yes, share pain is a very good and very situational heal. Keeps your bruiser or any other pet alive quickly in case of emergencies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, and on the comment above that the other 2 heals are enough.. it may be for him, but check the slotted sets, unless you have soverign right and other hench buff sets to slot, the other 2 heals will only be enough while set to the lower difficulty settings. When you fight relentles and your hench are -5-6 lvls below what you fighting, the high end cost of MM heals makes it really hard to keep them alive. So that low end uber heal is very handy.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Tough appears to be unnecessary seeing as youy have both BG mode and the Charged Armor.

I would suggest possibly leadership, but that's just my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've tried both, and I honestly get more results out of tough than I do out of leadership. With tough running, I can order my pets to focus on a single target (thereby dropping out of bodyguard mode), and still retain 75% smash/lethal resist. It also protects me a bit better against -resist debuffs, which longbow is always overly fond of.

I have a couple other /Pain masterminds who aren't going to be taking Tough, and do in fact have a couple of leadership powers. But this particular build works better (both conceptually and mechanically, given my playstyle) with it.

[ QUOTE ]
WTF skip share pain?

You've got to be kidding me.

It's a gigantic heal with a minor penalty (-100% regen and can't heal). Pain masterminds get a +400% regen pbaoe toggle! So you still run around with 400+% regen depending on health and other bonuses, and bodyguard mode reduces the health cost for share pain.

DON'T SKIP SHARE PAIN CAUSE IT'S OVERPOWERED

[/ QUOTE ]

The health cost isn't what bothers me. I don't take it because I really have no need for it. As I said, Soothe accomplishes what I need just fine, as well as recharging nearly 4x as fast, and I would rather take powers that I can use constantly/more often, than a "situational" power that I would rarely, if ever, use.

With my current build, I'm running at nearly 690% regen. Even the -100% regen from Share Pain wouldn't impact me at all. However, 15 seconds of not being able to regain health outside of regen IS potentially fatal, especially fighting AE-happy EBs/AVs. I'll stick with Soothe, which recharges in just over 2 seconds, and has no drawback.

If you wish to take it, that's fine. However, just because you like the power doesn't mean that "zomg everyone has to take it!!11oneone". I get along just fine without it.


The Mastermind Project
Leveling every primary/secondary to 50!
50: Bot/FF, Bot/Dark, Ninja/Trap, Merc/Pain, Necro/Dark, Thug/Dark
Works in Progress: Thug/TA, Merc/Poison, Thug/Pain, Ninja/Pain, Thug/Storm

 

Posted

have a lv38 Thugs/Pain, I keep Share Pain for team situations.

Now I'm reminded that I need to respec so I can drop Empty Clips so I can have a travel power finally.

I'll have to try out taking Tough on my Thugs/Pain, honestly I thought it was lolz worthy when I saw a MM w/ Tough, though this was Pre-13 PvP, but regardless...he died a lot still, think he forgot about BG Mode >.>


 

Posted

I've heard, but never tried, taking the Pool Taunts for a MM to keep attention on him and away from the Pets. Coupled with Tough this might be a viable tactic in BG mode. I'll have to grab an MM and try it in the second build and see what happens. Most of the time my MMs are trying to be the center of attention anyway so I'm intrigued...


"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"

 

Posted

For certain builds, it can help out substantially. Whenever I'm building a resist-based mastermind, I always weigh the advantages of adding tough in, compared to whatever other powers I could pick up instead. Sometimes tough wins out, sometimes not.

For a /pain build, I've found it to be incredibly helpful. Combined with my regen and nullify pain, I almost never have to worry about my health against most mobs, except for ones that spam AE attacks or use odd damage types, like fire or dark. I can dive into the middle of the fight to be alongside my bruiser, and not worry about getting pelted, even when not in bodyguard mode.

The other factor for it is that I can direct some of my pets to attack specific targets, and leave others in bodyguard mode, without worrying about large hits as much. If I tell my bruiser and thugs to focus on a single target, for instance, while leaving my enforcers in bodyguard mode, it cuts down substantially on the damage I'll end up taking, even with that reduced bodyguard mode, making my regen and nullify pain even more powerful.

Your mileage may vary, but I'm very fond of tough on my /pain masterminds.


The Mastermind Project
Leveling every primary/secondary to 50!
50: Bot/FF, Bot/Dark, Ninja/Trap, Merc/Pain, Necro/Dark, Thug/Dark
Works in Progress: Thug/TA, Merc/Poison, Thug/Pain, Ninja/Pain, Thug/Storm