Thoughts on Secondaries (long)


AmazingMOO

 

Posted

Fire Manipulation is weird.

Much of the set consists of weak PBAoE DoT powers that have various problems or are outright broken - Blazing Aura's endurance cost (it has the same DS as the Fiery Aura version, but a much higher endurance cost), Combustion's animation time, and Burn scaring enemies out of the range of your other PBAoEs. It also lacks a hard-hitting ST blap equivalent to Thunder Strike or Total Focus.

On the other hand, Fire Sword and FSC are really good attacks on their own, Consume and Hot Feet have a massive 20' radius and the damage auras add DPS that doesn't eat up precious animation time.

It can be terrible or pretty good, I guess, depending on how you make it work with your primary and playstyle.


 

Posted

Thanks for the answer regarding Chillblain, I will give it a lot more attention in the future.


 

Posted

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Blazing Aura's endurance cost (it has the same DS as the Fiery Aura version, but a much higher endurance cost)

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Blazing Aura for blasters actually has a lower DS than the tanker, brute, and scrapper version (.2 vs .22) while costing 50% more endurance to run. But I'm not bitter.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

I stand corrected.


 

Posted

A note regarding /Energy Manipulation.

Boost Range isn't a must have power, in most cases. Sure, having your regular blasts have a snipe-like range is nice, but not really necessary.

However, the sets that deal with a lot of Cones? For them, this is a gold mine.

More range with cone blasts make it very easy to hit the target caps, which means those powers are that much more effective. So, for any Assault Rifle/Energy Manipulation or Sonic Blast/Energy Manipulation blasters, I recommend taking Boost Range.


-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-

 

Posted

The only thing I agree with is your statement that "not all blasters are created equal." I take that to mean that some have stronger synergies between their power sets or that some power sets are somewhat stronger than others.

However, most of the rest of your post I disagree with. Maybe I can chalk that up to play style differences or perhaps the lack of experience you have with certain power sets.

Biggest points of disagreement:

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The most obvious conclusion I can make is that the other sets are overpowered dramatically by Mental Manipulation.

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I think MM is okay, as in middle of the road okay. Drain psyche is great, and but what's overpowered about it is the -regen, not the heal / recovery. I'm okay with the latter; the former steps on the toes of controllers/defenders/corruptors in disrupting AT balance. The -regen for this power isn't "light" by any means, and does more than defender versions of transfusion (kinetics) and twilight grasp (dark).

I think that the -regen will probably be adjusted at some point, but the other parts of MM are okay. World of Confusion and Scare aren't exactly impressive and the other powers are on par for what I expect from a blaster secondary.

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Devices is problematic for me. It seems almost entirely group-oriented. I've seen /Devices blasters solo well, but they don't really seem to excel to me unless they're in a large group. A lot of that has to do with the lack of click self-buffs that other blasters get. Targeting Drone and Cloaking Device are worth-while powers, but their bonuses don't really seem to make up for their limitations.

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This is wrong and probably influenced to the fact your devices is ony level 21. Devices is better solo since you can use things like trip mine, time bomb, gun drone at your leisure. No fast moving group will wait while these are deployed.

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My highest /Devices blaster is only about 21, so that could be shaded by inexperience with higher-level play. However, if I were going to make any changes to this set to make it more attractive, it would be to make the toggle buffs more powerful. I'd add a small +resist component to Cloaking Device (and maybe increase its +defense, too), and a small damage bonus to Targeting drone.

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I wouldn't hold your breath for buffs to devices. Castle looked at this set and added a stealth strike buff and then was told to take it away. What was left was a +dmg buff with targeting drone when using your snipe. Whoopee.


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Energy Manipulation is probably my favorite secondary set. My Energy/Energy blaster was my first 50, and I love the visual effects and knockback it comes with. I've also got a Psi/Energy coming up on her mid-40s. However, this set still doesn't quite measure up to /Mental in terms of power and utility. It's very viable in groups and somewhat less viable solo.

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I chalk this up to a play style difference. Energy manipulation because of its extremely potent single target blaps, controls and utility powers is probably the consensus strongest blaster secondary by everyone except maybe yourself.

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It also offers what I consider to be one of the most 'skippable' powers in game: Boost Range. Solo, Boost Range means you can use your stronger powers without moving around so much. In groups, it means you can pull from slightly longer distances. It adds so little to a blaster's repertoire that many consider it to be a complete waste. I don't quite think it's a complete waste, but I wouldn't recommend it to many.

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Boost range shines when applied to AoEs and cones. Since you've paired the secondary with mostly single target primaries (energy, psi), you probably wouldn't know that.

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I would bring Energy Manipulation up in attractiveness and utility to Mental Manipulation a few different ways. The first thing I'd do would be decrease the recharge time on 'Conserve Power' a bit. Maybe 25% or so. This would allow 'conservationists' (like myself) to have a bit more control over their end expenditure.

To counter the sheer uselessness of Boost Range, I'd add a small-to-moderate -recharge component to it to not only allow /energy blasters to use their powers at longer ranges, but to also use them more frequently.

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Energy manipulation doesn't need a buff at all. It has only one truly skippable power and that's stun (due to animation and redundancy).


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I consider Electric Manipulation to be the second strongest blaster secondary compared to /Mental. Most of this comes from the sheer power of Power Sink. Unslotted, it's an end drain that will make kinetic defenders cry and will always keep the blaster full on end. Slotted, and possibly in conjunction with other end draining powers, it will turn the blaster into an electric-powered machine of destruction solo or in groups.

/Electric's real weakness is that aside from its drains, it doesn't do a lot to protect the user. There's no heal along with all the free endurance, and the few status effects are all single-target, meaning that large groups will still do bad things to you.

However, having all the free endurance gives you the ability to run a LOT more powers than most blasters. My 50 Elec/Elec runs Combat Jumping, Acrobatics, Tough, Weave, and Charged Armor without any Fitness or Stamina.

That brings up the second, 'however'. The single hold in /electric can be augmented greatly with holds in other sets, including the 'epic' APPs.

Accordingly, I wouldn't do anything to Electric to make it more attractive or powerful. While it isn't quite up to /Mental's level, it allows for a broader range of secondary and tertiary options.

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This is obviously from a perspective of a gamer that doesn't go into the fitness pools. I will even bet you skip most of the electric blaps. Again, a perspective, a limited one, that comes from a play style that differs from many.


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Fire Manipulation's big strength is the same as Fire Blast. It does great damage, coming up short only against enemies who are strongly resistant to fire. It also comes with Consume, meaning that the blaster can keep himself topped up on End when well-slotted. Careful use of Burn means that the blaster can always be free of all but the most powerful status effects. It doesn't offer a lot of protection for the blaster, which seems to make it more useful in teams than solo.

My highest /Fire character is 20ish. The only reason I haven't spent more time with her is simply because I've been playing other blasters. However, I've seen /Fire blasters do well both in teams and solo.

The only thing I'd do to this power is to make Consume offer a small, perhaps even non-enhanceable heal. It'd fit with the theme of other fire powers like 'Healing Flames' and make /Fire blasters slightly more durable when they choose to solo.

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Fire manipulation is the hardest secondary for most players because it offers zero to no mitigation apart from an afraid component in burn very late in your career. Go take your /fire blaster against the late 30s and early 40s mobs and it will become frustrating solo if you play at anything higher than tier 1 difficulty.

By the way, your information is outdated. Burn only offers minor immobilization protection, not full status protection.

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Like Devices, Ice can be problematic when solo. It performs okay on teams, but I feel that the other sets outperform it even then. My highest /Ice blaster is late 30-ish, so higher-level play may change that a bit.

Due to the lack of any kind of end utility or defensive utilities in the set, /Ice blasters tend to have to rely on slows and the knockdown effects of Ice Patch. This means using a lot of powers all the time. Rather than this set making other powers work well, as in the case of electric's end drain fueling Fighting toggles, a lot of ice blasters feel they need the Fitness set to even consider using it.

Ice Manipulation offers as its tier 9 power, 'Frozen Aura', an AOE sleep. In the world of 'AOEs Win', dedicated sleep powers don't play well in groups.

To make this set more attractive to soloers and for group usage, I'd make a few significant changes. First, I'd place a small bit of defense in Frozen Aura. Second, I'd increase the radius of Ice Patch slightly and add the same status buff that Burn gets. Lastly, I'd add a small endurance recovery buff to Frozen Aura... make it so that it works something like a 'single target Heat Loss'

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I have a 50 ice/ice blaster and much of what you wrote is incorrect. /ice has quite a bit of mitigation packed into it. Did you take powers like shiver? You also have a very fast activating / high damage melee hold as well. I found that /ice manipulation blasters are exceedingly easy to level up solo.

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These are my thoughts. Please note that I am in no way nerfherding. I'd prefer things to remain the way they are rather than see a single set nerfed in any way. Corrections or comments are highly welcome.

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I don't consider this nerfherding. I just think you need to play blasters a little more. I don't agree with your observations.


 

Posted

Wow, not to sound too harsh, but a long post so full of wrong.

MM overpowered? I've tried and can't get into it. Doesn't seem to offer much mitigation at all to me and a bit weak on damage unless you really need to extra AoE.

Ice and devices better teamed than solo? Completely opposite in my experience.

/Electric's mitigation only affects single targets? *Cough* Lightning clap, thunder strike. *Cough*

Boost range one of the most skippable powers in the game? Not even close. Try a AR/Energy, it lives on boost range. Any other primary with a cone attack or two can find it useful.

Well, at least I did like some of your ideas for buffs though.


 

Posted

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I have issues with 2 of your statements here.

Saying Devices and Ice are problematic when solo is outright wrong. Devices and Ice are probably the strongest sets for a soloing blaster.


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I agree with this. At least, in regards to /ice. /ice is a very very strong set. There's a whole bunch of powers in /ice that mitigate damage and improve survival. I'd barely change a single thing in that set.


Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break

The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens

 

Posted

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Also, Chilblain is the best 1st Tier of any Secondary. Period.

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This is very very true. Chillblain is a gem. Damage, slow, immobilize, -fly, -recharge.... all with conservative endurance usage and a decent recharge rate. I use it constantly on any blaster of mine that has it. It's a great power. And it accepts three different IO sets. I always six-slot mine, it's so effective in so many ways.


Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break

The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens

 

Posted

I didn't read the whole thread, but I hope I'm not the only one to see the problems with your analysis of the secondaries.

You listed a downside in every set but Mental of "no health utility" even though the lack of proper heals is really a Blaster mainstay, with Mental being the exception rather than the norm. It's like knocking down every Brute Primary but Energy for not having an Energy Transfer equivalent, and it looks like you did it simply to make Mental look better.

You claim that Psi damage is highly unresisted, which is frankly untrue. It's been stated by at least one dev that Psi is one of the most resisted damage types in PvE, up there with Smashing and Lethal, and a recent post shows that Psi is actually the 3rd most resisted type among the common mobs.

You list the need for "Blapper" play to get the most out of Energy, Electric, and Fire and then neglect to mention that the same is required of Mental Manipulation (and conveniently forgot that Energy's stuns and knockback make Blapper play safer than the other sets do).

In short, it looks entirely like you came to the conclusion that Mental Manipulation is the best because you WANTED to come to the conclusion that Mental Manipulation is the best.


Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.