Personally, I look at the numbers a lot of the time, so I would be looking for sets that will shine for being noticeably better than their Corrupter counterparts. Unfortunately, I really think Sonic is the only set that fits that bill. In my opinion, all the other powersets that Defenders and Corrupters share don't really have a noticeable difference in effectiveness, at least not at the higher levels.
Of course, bringing a powerset Corrupters don't have will be great, and I think in that vein, both FF and TA are great options. TA is also very compatible with a villain theme, and I could see an FF villain working. Use Force Bubble to push the mobs away from the Brutes and you'll be hated in no time! 
I don't really like the idea of pairing FF with Archery or Psi, though. I think Ice or Sonic or Energy would work better, at least for my own enjoyment. TA I have no experience with, so I can't say either way.
Personally, I am much more interested in bringing a Corrupter over to the good side. I'll probably end up deleting him, since I never can seem to play Corrupters, but that's my plan for right now.
Bye, everybody!
*Champion*
What makes Force Field not villainous enough? Masterminds get it.
Depending on how it works, I'll likely move at least one of my emps around between games.
Actually, my Emp/Son's back story was that she is a fortuna turned good (she used to be Emp/Psi) so she'll probably spend quite a bit of time wreaking havoc in the rogue isles.
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
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What makes Force Field not villainous enough? Masterminds get it.
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I think the consideration was that, for a Corruptor, Force Fields were seen as being too team-focused, and that thematically a villain might be more out for themselves. Empathy also had that stigma, until they got over themselves and made PD.
Masterminds got it for two reasons: Robots already had some bubbling, and Masterminds are intrinsically interested in their team, even if it's only their henchmen.
@NC Thunderbird, @Last Kid Picked
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Campaigning for title of official "Thread Killer" of the Suggestions & Ideas forum.
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What makes Force Field not villainous enough? Masterminds get it.
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I think the consideration was that, for a Corruptor, Force Fields were seen as being too team-focused, and that thematically a villain might be more out for themselves. Empathy also had that stigma, until they got over themselves and made PD.
Masterminds got it for two reasons: Robots already had some bubbling, and Masterminds are intrinsically interested in their team, even if it's only their henchmen.
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A set that has exactly 2 team-cast powers is too team friendly?
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
Fire, Ice, and Sonic all brought armor powers, they probably didn't want too much redundancy, and this way left MMs with something Corruptors didn't have.
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A set that has exactly 2 team-cast powers is too team friendly?
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How much is it boosting your personal offense compared to other sets?
All that aside, I have never heard of FF as having this "stigma" of not being villainous before. The only powerset I've heard labeled as such was Empathy (which is also inaccurate considering the actual meaning of the word "empathy" but it nevertheless *does* have that popular impression as being "heroic" or "selfless" or whatever).
I think FF and Empathy defenders will be quite welcomed redside. I *know* the Hamidon raiders are going to love it. They need to get Warburg nukes for their +regen currently because the devs stiffed redside on Empathy.
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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A set that has exactly 2 team-cast powers is too team friendly?
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How much is it boosting your personal offense compared to other sets?
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Repulsion Bomb is a fair offensive power, making 1 of 9
Compare that to Dark Miasma, also only 1 power that boosts your offensive prowess
Pain has 2 powers that boost you offensively solo
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
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I think the consideration was that, for a Corruptor, Force Fields were seen as being too team-focused, and that thematically a villain might be more out for themselves.
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But I am glad /Sonic is nothing like that with the bubbles and AoE bubble and team focusing.
What a second....
EDIT: IMO I think that if FF was not villainous enough it would not be with MMs.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
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I think the consideration was that, for a Corruptor, Force Fields were seen as being too team-focused, and that thematically a villain might be more out for themselves.
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But I am glad /Sonic is nothing like that with the bubbles and AoE bubble and team focusing.
What a second....
EDIT: IMO I think that if FF was not villainous enough it would not be with MMs.
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IMO the issue with Force Field was not it's team oriented design, but its lack of a damage boost. Every Corruptor Secondary has either a damage buff or a res debuff. That includes Pain Domination.
Now in some cases that damage boost comes very late, as with Thermal, or is relatively weak. Still, Sonic may not be the best at damage boosting, but with Sonic Siphon, and Disruption Field, you've got more damage than FF is capable of.
I'm guessing that Masterminds, with plenty of damage from their pets, were considered to be okay without a damage boost. And in fact, they don't get the more offensively oriented sets like Rad and Kin, although I'm sure they will eventually. Those power sets still could get some nerfs, much as Dark got a weaker Twilight Grasp and Dark Servant, and even FF has a longer recharging Personal Force Field.
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Repulsion Bomb is a fair offensive power, making 1 of 9
Compare that to Dark Miasma, also only 1 power that boosts your offensive prowess
Pain has 2 powers that boost you offensively solo
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I wouldn't call Repulsion Bomb an offensive boost, although you're right in that it is a direct attack. However, the two are not mutually exclusive. Storm has both Lightning Storm and Freezing Rain.
The problem with Repulsion Bomb is that it doesn't do anything for your attack chain, it merely replaces one attack with another. It does make Repulsion Bomb itself more useful, as there is no need to stop attacking to make use of its knockdown and stun effects. Still, I would not call it an "offensive boost", even on a Corruptor.
I suspect we will see Force Field perhaps altered into a similar set with some damage boosts, much like Empathy became Pain Domination, before it makes it to Corruptors.
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I suspect we will see Force Field perhaps altered into a similar set with some damage boosts, much like Empathy became Pain Domination, before it makes it to Corruptors.
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Why would they do this? First off, Empathy was turned into Pain Dom because the devs said the "concept" of Empathy was not villainous. This wasn't about self-damage boosts or team-friendliness. Villains already have powersets that are majority ally-only. This was about empathy being too touchy-feely nicey-nicey for villainside.
I assume that reasoning is out the window with Going Rogue. If you can bring an Emp Def or FF Def redside now than you are saying that person, with that powerset, can be a villain. So why would you go to the trouble now of changing FF for Corruptors, that being the case?
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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Why would they do this? First off, Empathy was turned into Pain Dom because the devs said the "concept" of Empathy was not villainous. This wasn't about self-damage boosts or team-friendliness. Villains already have powersets that are majority ally-only. This was about empathy being too touchy-feely nicey-nicey for villainside.
I assume that reasoning is out the window with Going Rogue. If you can bring an Emp Def or FF Def redside now than you are saying that person, with that powerset, can be a villain. So why would you go to the trouble now of changing FF for Corruptors, that being the case?
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Well, first of all while the stated reason for changing Empathy to Pain Domination was to make it more villanous, we don't KNOW what the reasons were for adding self damage boosts to that set. Is it "villanous" to have a self damage boost? Kin has self damage boosts, and it is not considered "villanous". Therefore we can conclude that while they changed the "feel" of the set to make it fit the goal of being more suitable for villains, they added specific features, like the +dam -- to the caster even, and not to the team -- to make the set more balanced and resolve issues with that had been reported with Empathy.
In fact, they could have made Pain Domination an exact clone of Empathy, only changing the names and the power effects. The idea that they wanted Pain Domination to have a "villanous" concept does not mean they had to change the implementation.
Second, I am not suggesting that they change Force Field for Corruptors without changing it for Defenders, and in fact I'd rather they did not. I am actually suggesting that the devs will introduce changes to Force Field BEFORE they Proliferate it to Corruptors, in order to address those problems. Since FF already exists on the villain side, on MMs, this would not be a villain problem, but a Corruptor problem. Or more specifically, FF Defenders seem to have more of a support role and less of a damage dealing role, which would be innappropriate to Corruptors, which are supposed to have more of a damage dealing role and less of a support role. The problems FF Defenders currently have in fulfilling that role would cause FF Corruptors those same problems.
And note that while there are some Corruptors that have more of a team oriented role than others, and thus have trouble soloing, there is NO Corruptor that does not have a way to increase the amount of damage he does to a foe by either buffing his own damage or debuffing his foe's resistance. If you think you can name a Corruptor Secondary that does not have this capability, please name it.
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Well, first of all while the stated reason for changing Empathy to Pain Domination was to make it more villanous, we don't KNOW what the reasons were for adding self damage boosts to that set. Is it "villanous" to have a self damage boost? Kin has self damage boosts, and it is not considered "villanous". Therefore we can conclude that while they changed the "feel" of the set to make it fit the goal of being more suitable for villains, they added specific features, like the +dam -- to the caster even, and not to the team -- to make the set more balanced and resolve issues with that had been reported with Empathy.
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When proliferation was announced and people naturally began asking how far it would go the devs didn't call out Force Field as a problem. In fact until this very thread I've never even heard the theory that FF might not be suitable for villains, for the obvious reason that villains already have access to it. They mentioned, as I recall, only Empathy for Villains and Poison for Heroes as likely to "never be proliferated in their current form".
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In fact, they could have made Pain Domination an exact clone of Empathy, only changing the names and the power effects. The idea that they wanted Pain Domination to have a "villanous" concept does not mean they had to change the implementation.
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By the same token they could have just added the +DMG, as you say, without having to darken the overall theme with the names and power descriptions they chose. It's just as plausible to conclude that this is what they were after and simply thought that it would be lame merely to give the set a new "skin".
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Second, I am not suggesting that they change Force Field for Corruptors without changing it for Defenders, and in fact I'd rather they did not. I am actually suggesting that the devs will introduce changes to Force Field BEFORE they Proliferate it to Corruptors, in order to address those problems.
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And I'm saying don't hold your breath. There is zero buzz about FF except in this very thread. No one cares. It's not getting touched. Believe what you want.
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
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Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
Was it just me starting to really get into my Illusion/Thermal Controller that made me strike a thought. Mechanically speaking, there was already a Empathy "clone" on Corruptors before Controllers got them, known as Thermal power set. It's Empathy with only 2 heals, +res shields to fill in the gaps of the 3rd heal, a rez (that does damage), a +dmg power, an anti-mez power... sounds very Empathy to me. What is the major difference between Empathy and Thermal? There lacks a +Regen, +Recovery power to which has been replaced with two debuffs. Pain Domination didn't get the RAs, only AB and gets a singular debuff and 4 heals. Naturally, this means that in my personal mind set, Thermal and Pain Domination are pretty much the same thing.
Sure, there lacked a power set that both Corruptors and Masterminds can have, assuming you didn't want to the plausible match up of Necro/Thermal (Spellcasters) or Ninja/Thermal (A daemon with ninjas and other daemons under their control), but even then that gave Corruptors even more of a nitche if people want "a healer." Both Thermal and Empathy have 6 of their 9 powers that can not effect themselves making an already team based power set that originated on Villain side.
From a flavor point of view, was a equivalent of Empathy a good thing, yes. From a mechanical point of view, was a equivalent of Empathy need to be added, no. Thermal gave good reason for Corruptors to have Fire Blast and have something that couples with it, and I think that's great. Do I think that having Thermal on a Defender would be awesome, yes. Do I think that the devs (or people who criticize the devs) will feel that have to add Fire Blast to add Thermal, yes. Fire Blast only has more damage as their secondary effect, something that doesn't really fit with the Defender mentality. Why give yourself Fire Blast when your damage numbers are lowered? That doesn't make sense.
I still am holding out for Defenders to get Assault Rifles (with their KB like Energy Blast being a major secondary effect) and more importantly to me, Traps. Traps have always interested me and I can see the two being transported to Defenders before Thermal/Fire. That and if Thermal is put on a Defender, people will always look for the Empath. Thermal is now covered by both Empathy and Pain Domination, making it a really underused set for what it is good for in the lower levels, healing and buffing your allies. Then in late game it switches to offense as healing becomes less useful, instead of only tossing the occasional RA, Fort, and AB. It's much more proactive in late game, like Force Fields is.
Force Fields don't have any -res or +dmg, they have damage mitigation. KB, KD, stuns, and a bit of damage. In the early stages it's really inactive, but you have 1 self def buff, 2 ally defense buff, and 1 self/ally buff with a bit of mez protection, making only 2 of the powers non-caster buff. Force Bolt, Repulsion Bomb, Repulsion Field, Detention Field, and Force Bubble are all offensive bound powers. So 4 Buffs, 5 offensive powers. Sure, they don't give you a damage boost, but who cares about a damage boost if you can sit there and spend 5 years killing them? Could it be slow, yes. Could it make AVs impossible sure. But how can a power set (Thermal) with a very low healing AoE heal, a -dmg/-end/-regen/-recovery single target, and a -res/-def AoE power really be considered that "villainous." The last two powers you get at level 35 and 38 and are the only two that "offensively" buff yourself. Thermal was designed for Villains at the beginning and it was like this. Force Fields have 5 offensive powers and 2 self buff powers, Thermal has 3.
Just thought I would toss Thermal on the flames with my frustrations with it since in my mind, it already was Empathy for villains, people just ignored it because it didn't say "It's Dark Empathy."
50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec
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Just thought I would toss Thermal on the flames with my frustrations with it since in my mind, it already was Empathy for villains, people just ignored it because it didn't say "It's Dark Empathy."
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Thermal was certainly thought of as the "healer" set for Villains, but I wouldn't say it was much of an Empathy equivalent (or dare call either a "healer" set here myself 
) They are different enough. Pain Dom is closer to Empathy, which was the point I guess. It does its buffs a little differently but they are mostly the same effects and like Empathy it has no shields.
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
Been flexing my altaholic creative muscles, trying to come up with characters that will be interesting to take across to the other side once Going Rogue comes out. For most of the ATs, I've been looking at what powersets don't have analogues on the other side, and trying to come up with concepts that make sense to go bad (morally, not power-wise).
Defenders have three primary powersets that don't directly have matches among Corruptor secondaries: Empathy, Force Field, and Trick Arrow. Empathy finally has a partial mirror in Pain Domination, but with enough differences to take pause. Force Field carries a stigma as a not-villainous-enough powerset, and Trick Arrow lacks its damage partner, Archery. Speaking of Archery, Defenders also have Psychic Blast as a secondary that Corruptors don't get.
To start with, I want to ask what people think about the following combinations, and then ask if there are other primary/secondary pairings (including Corruptor-shared powersets) that you think would make the best (or at least most interesting) GR Defenders:
Empathy/Archery
Empathy/Psychic Blast
Force Field/Archery
Force Field/Psychic Blast
Trick Arrow/Archery
Trick Arrow/Psychic Blast
(For the record, I have an Emp/Psy, FF/A, and a TA/A among my 14 current Defenders.)
@NC Thunderbird, @Last Kid Picked
HELP! I can't stop making Alts! Up to 175 now, including: Lutadora, Tess LaCoille, Not Of This World, Lies Behind Stars, Redshift Monk.
Campaigning for title of official "Thread Killer" of the Suggestions & Ideas forum.