178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name.

Arc Name: Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name....
Arc ID: 178774
Morality: Heroic
Factions: Red Cap, Ghosts, Cabal, Custom
Difficulty Level: Moderate to Hard. Mission 5 has EB/AV.
Synopsis : Patrolling in Croatoa one night, you notice a little girl wandering aimlessly on the edges of a cemetery and decide to stop to help. Experience a tale of love, sorrow, and betrayal as you attempt to unravel a mystery. (SFMA)

Note: This arc is intended to be played by someone in their low to mid 30s ( i.e. when you'd normally be playing in Croatoa ). Due to obvious errors in faction level ranges in MA, if you play at higher levels, your mission play level will fluctuate. (which can be a little annoying )

Any comments or constructive criticism will be appreciated.

I've created a banner page for the arc:

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Enjoy!

Updated per feedback ... I would greatly appreciate it if I could get a few more viewpoints. Thanks!

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Arc Name: Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name....
Arc ID: 178774
Morality: Heroic
Factions: Red Cap, Ghosts, Cabal, Custom
Difficulty Level: Moderate to Hard. Mission 5 has EB/AV.
Synopsis : Patrolling in Croatoa one night, you notice a little girl wandering aimlessly on the edges of a cemetery and decide to stop to help. Experience a tale of love, sorrow, and betrayal as you attempt to unravel a mystery. (SFMA)

Note: This arc is intended to be played by someone in their low to mid 30s ( i.e. when you'd normally be playing in Croatoa ). Due to obvious errors in faction level ranges in MA, if you play at higher levels, your mission play level will fluctuate. (which can be a little annoying )

Any comments or constructive criticism will be appreciated.

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I saw this thread while browsing the forums a few days ago, thought the title sounded neat, and gave it a try. This turned out to be the best arc I’ve played so far (and I received my badge for playing 50 arcs quite some time ago). The story was absolutely amazing—it was very well-written, very suspenseful, and constantly surprising me with new developments in the plot that I never would have thought could happen!

The enemies were very balanced, and the EB/AV at the end wasn’t too hard (well, I never would’ve managed her alone since I played a Controller, but the two allies really helped). I loved all of the little plot twists, and can see that a TON of work went into this—the NPC dialogue was very nicely done (the Red Caps’ rhyming was a very nice touch), the clues gave great insight into the plot, and of course the mission dialogue was also flawless (I loved the ending- it was slightly bittersweet, yet filled with hope and joy as well ).

You’ve really outdone yourself with this—I give it a solid five stars, and hope that you make many more like it.

Thank you, glad you enjoyed it.

Hi, I played through and enjoyed this arc earlier today. After I sent you my feedback, we communicated a bit, and you mentioned trouble with some of the spawn points.

One thing that occurred to me (and that you may have already considered, but I'll toss it out there just in case) is that the problems may be due to the order of your objectives in the missions.

The placement of mission objectives in the story arc file can influence how they spawn. The more important it is that a mission objective spawn in the correct location, the higher you should place that objective in the list for that mission.

I had trouble with some of the spawn points in my story arc, and had to reshuffle the mission objectives so that they spawned properly. Unfortunately, this meant a lot of deleting of objectives, re-creating them, and retyping all their information, but the fix worked.

Anyway, you may have already considered this, but I thought I'd bring it up just in case....

Good luck!

I've thought about reordering. I believe he is 2nd or 3rd in the list of objectives. 90% of the time he spawns correctly, so I think I'll leave it alone unless I start getting complaints about it. I compensated a bit by making the other hostages required objectives.

The position of the clue in the 2nd mission though - there is nothing to be done about that, other than submitting a bug report.

Well, this arc got to about number 6 on the list before the bandits shot it down.
The first 19 plays = 17 5 stars and 2 4 stars...
The next 13 netted a grand total of 100 tickets.

Would appreciate some honest feedback on this arc. It's going to take a while to overcome the 9 zero star torpedos though...

The below flier is posted on behalf of the player organization promoting the event.
For more information about having an event flier posted, please see the [/color]<a href='http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=8952225"'>[u][color=#810081 size=1]Event Posting Rules[/color][u]

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I just wanted to add to the chorus of praise for this arc. I just played through it, and I'd easily place it in the top five arcs I've done since i14 launched. The writing on the contact and in the first mission is particularly impressive.

I really enjoyed the arc. This is a great example as to why they made the MA!

Now, since you would like some feedback, I do think that there are minor ways you can actually improve on your great work.

Mission 2, I found the map a bit big.
Mission 3, you don't get the clue from Jack when you free him, only as the exit clue. 99% of the people wont notice, but I happened for free him before I had completed the Fir Bolg.

I didn't really catch on as to why Arianna would go after Rianna without help, but I can guess that it was a revenge thing. Not a big problem.

Now, overall I think it would help to use mission complete popups to help fill in some blanks, or to get the player to feel what you want them to feel. IMO It tightens up the story, especially if the player missed something, or misread something.

A good example is after Mission 3, you could add 'You feel a need to return to see Rose'

BTW, I thought the writing was excellent!

5 Stars!

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Mission 2, I found the map a bit big.


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Yeah, I went through quite a few maps before I settled on that one. I had 2 clues, 3 patrols, and a number of dummy glowies. To get a proper dispersal, I felt this one was the right size. Smaller maps tended to cluster the objects and the patrols.

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Mission 3, you don't get the clue from Jack when you free him, only as the exit clue. 99% of the people wont notice, but I happened for free him before I had completed the Fir Bolg.


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I agonized over this one. The free captive clue is 300 characters. Mission complete clue is 1000. I had to move it, since I had so much to say with this clue.

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Now, overall I think it would help to use mission complete popups to help fill in some blanks, or to get the player to feel what you want them to feel. IMO It tightens up the story, especially if the player missed something, or misread something.


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I'll go through it again to see where popups might help. A number of people have left feedback on other arcs essentially saying you need popups on every chapter. I only do it where it feels right to the story or is needed to explain the map.

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A good example is after Mission 3, you could add 'You feel a need to return to see Rose'


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Hmmm, well she is the contact. But good point, the story could have had you going straight from the outdoor map to Rhiannon's hideout.

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BTW, I thought the writing was excellent!


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Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it.

Up to 60 ratings! I wish I had kept all of the feedback from the beginning, but here are the last few that have been left:

@&lt;private&gt;: Feedback on Architect Mission Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name....: That was a great story. I particularly liked Rose's dialogue. Aside from a couple of typos, my only criticism is that the final clue is a bit jarring. It seems like a lead-in to a sequel, but the story of Rose and her family is wrapped up. If you do want to allude to a sequel here, I'm not sure how best to do it. In any case, 5 stars. You might also enjoy my Croatoa arc, "The Love Talker," which will return when the Burning Forest map does. :-)


[Tell] 2009-06-12 15: 23:34 Message From @&lt;private&gt; : Feedback on Architect Mission Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name....: Very nicely done. A touching storyline.

2009-06-19 22: 30:49 Message From @&lt;private&gt; : Feedback on Architect Mission Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name....: Without a shadow of a doubt, this is the best AE Mission I have done. Thanks!

@GlaziusF

Running this on a high 30s ice/axe tanker, diff 2 so I get real boss fights.

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...yeah, thanks for looking innocent, briefing. I'm probably going to get torn in half by a giant mutated monster-man, or maybe that's too much Lovecraft.

ANYWAY. Spelunking.

Thanks, intro text. For a second I thought it was those other guys in Croatoa with pointy hats that like messing with people.

Hmm. Those opening caves seemed awfully empty. Surely that doesn't foreshadow any crazy consequences from opening this chest.

Huh. Actually it doesn't.

The wisps are really just kind of annoying since they do that swarm thing where they tag you for 5 seconds then run far away.

The boss and the destructible would both benefit from some custom descriptions, I think.

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Still waiting for the other shoe to drop. I've read wayyyyyy too much horror. Well, let's see what's up in this new place.

Yep, dead warehouse.

I guess Croatoa Ghosts don't go high enough? (bet you're looking forward to editing enemy descriptions, huh?)

Kind of annoying to fight these guys on a melee character since they don't close to combat, but whatever.

Amusing bit of randomness: the corkboard containing the last words of a dying someone was parked on top of a three-tier cargo shelf. I can just imagine what that must have been like.

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...yeah, showing up to visit an old friend of a family that got massacred and bringing a former memento that stinks of Red Cap. THAT's not going to put the wrong face on things.

Oh my god! This is the first blue/red cave map I have ever seen since I started playing AE!

No, seriously.

...uh, okay, custom mobs. I guess that's an alternate to a Baen Sidhe, maybe.

...what the heck you saying, pumpkin heads? You WERE all human once. The Redcaps turned you into pumpkin-men. I see you topside trying to remember and lamenting your fate all the ding-dang time.

I can buy the weird splinter sect breaking the treaty, but, uh...

The Cabal want a next generation.

Like, really want.

Like, there's exactly one member of it right now and they keep her dead center in a sacred grove.

This had better be some damn important motivation to cut the next generation in half. Unless the ghost kid was like adopted or something.

...the many holes? The many holes in what? Though the graveyard is definitely henged out from the rest of reality, so there's that for it.

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Callous disregard for life. Okay, now I know I've stepped into some weird alternate universe. Mayor Bower doesn't even think they're a major problem, aside from the whole "really want a next generation" thing, and the one time you seriously go up against them it's because someone better than them at magic knows about the side effects of a spell they're going to try.

Last destructible needs some particle effects around it to pick it out from the rest.

Yeah, okay, enhanced interrogation, whatever.

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So. Custom boss or stock fight?

Wow. Abandoned office. Not the arena I was expecting.

You know what's hilarious? Imagining a Streng trying to use an elevator.

Ah, now this is something of an arena, at least.

Custom! Darkity/dark dark. With, judging by the defeat clue, Doggerel Mastery.

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Storyline - *. This is a solid, internally consistent story that is entirely, entirely wrong. The Cabal are immortal prisoners of Croatoa, much as the Fir Bolg, Tuatha, and Croatoa Ghosts are. They were just powerful enough for the Red Caps not to twist their bodies into something monstrous. If somebody "left the Cabal" to live a normal life, raise a family, bear a child, the Cabal might be hunting her down, but only so they could ask "HOW DID YOU DO THIS THING AND WHEN CAN I".

Design - ****. When I think of the customs pretty much the only thing that comes to mind is "black blob with glowing eyes". The Cabal rank and file wear black already. Maybe you could get by with a nice storm grey or something, which the occasional bit of black detailing?

Gameplay - ****. With an EB and a boss in tow the final boss was hardly a challenge. I hardly did any damage to her because of DN and the occasional blast that landed, but the bosses staying at range and blasting mowed her down right quick. Bit of an anticlimax really. Also the second and third maps had a lot of empty space to them.

Detail - ****. Decent effort to making everything fit together as a whole. Most things that take a custom description have descriptive, if modest, infoboxes.

Overall - **. Not an average in this case. It's an arc that uses the imagery of Croatoa extensively but doesn't have much regard for the history of it as presented in-game.

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The wisps are really just kind of annoying since they do that swarm thing where they tag you for 5 seconds then run far away.


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There for atmosphere... I'd set them to neutral if that was an option. Unless you have a taunt aura, they will usually leave you alone after a few seconds if you bypass them.

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The boss and the destructible would both benefit from some custom descriptions, I think.


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Will do.

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I guess Croatoa Ghosts don't go high enough? (bet you're looking forward to editing enemy descriptions, huh?)


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This is the only ghost group that I'm aware of in the editor... the arc will be set to lev 25-34 when the next issue is released.

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Amusing bit of randomness: the corkboard containing the last words of a dying someone was parked on top of a three-tier cargo shelf. I can just imagine what that must have been like.


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Yeah, I've bug reported that. Looks much better when it spawns at ground level. Happens maybe once every 10 runs.

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I can buy the weird splinter sect breaking the treaty, but, uh...
The Cabal want a next generation.
Like, really want.
Like, there's exactly one member of it right now and they keep her dead center in a sacred grove.


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No clue what you're talking about. Katie H is not the sole member of the Cabal.

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...the many holes? The many holes in what? Though the graveyard is definitely henged out from the rest of reality, so there's that for it.


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You lost me.

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Storyline - *. This is a solid, internally consistent story that is entirely, entirely wrong. The Cabal are immortal prisoners of Croatoa, much as the Fir Bolg, Tuatha, and Croatoa Ghosts are. They were just powerful enough for the Red Caps not to twist their bodies into something monstrous. If somebody "left the Cabal" to live a normal life, raise a family, bear a child, the Cabal might be hunting her down, but only so they could ask "HOW DID YOU DO THIS THING AND WHEN CAN I".


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Edit: Given their long war with the Red Caps, I could see them getting angry with someone leaving.

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Gameplay - ****. With an EB and a boss in tow the final boss was hardly a challenge. I hardly did any damage to her because of DN and the occasional blast that landed, but the bosses staying at range and blasting mowed her down right quick. Bit of an anticlimax really. Also the second and third maps had a lot of empty space to them.


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I intentionally toned the AV/EB down for soloability. You can always crank it up to invinc if you want more of a challenge.

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Overall - **. Not an average in this case. It's an arc that uses the imagery of Croatoa extensively but doesn't have much regard for the history of it as presented in-game.


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Guess you're not one for extending the game canon. The possibility of part of the Cabal becomine corrupt is very possible IMO.

Sorry you didnt enjoy it - guess it's not for everyone. We'll have to agree to disagree on consistency with game canon. Thanks for the review.

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The wisps are really just kind of annoying since they do that swarm thing where they tag you for 5 seconds then run far away.


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There for atmosphere... I'd set them to neutral if that was an option. Unless you have a taunt aura, they will usually leave you alone after a few seconds if you bypass them.

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I have TWO taunt auras!

But seriously, I did just ignore them after a while since unlike the DE swarms they don't actually do anything other than piddly damage. It wasn't a serious complaint.

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I can buy the weird splinter sect breaking the treaty, but, uh...
The Cabal want a next generation.
Like, really want.
Like, there's exactly one member of it right now and they keep her dead center in a sacred grove.


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No clue what you're talking about. Katie H is not the sole member of the Cabal.


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"It" referring to the next generation, not the Cabal. She is the only child.

Not in the way that the two Pennys are the only children in Paragon City, the actual only child. That's why springing her spirit at the end of the KHTF is so vitally important, she's all the Cabal have in the way of hope for the future.

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...the many holes? The many holes in what? Though the graveyard is definitely henged out from the rest of reality, so there's that for it.


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You lost me.


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Something about "placing the amulet into one of the many holes" and that this would be a safe place for it. I thought it meant, like, holes in some monument in the graveyard, but it was actually the teddy, wasn't it? Except leaving it in the care of the ghost child isn't a safe place since the Red Caps already made off with the dang thing once.

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Storyline - *. This is a solid, internally consistent story that is entirely, entirely wrong. The Cabal are immortal prisoners of Croatoa, much as the Fir Bolg, Tuatha, and Croatoa Ghosts are. They were just powerful enough for the Red Caps not to twist their bodies into something monstrous. If somebody "left the Cabal" to live a normal life, raise a family, bear a child, the Cabal might be hunting her down, but only so they could ask "HOW DID YOU DO THIS THING AND WHEN CAN I".


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Edit: Given their long war with the Red Caps, I could see them getting angry with someone leaving.


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Given that the Red Caps have no particular aversion to tormenting the civilian populace of Salamanca, and that their aggression against the Cabal is by all appearances entirely voluntary, "leaving the Cabal" is tantamount to "leaving the pirates" when you're on a ship in the middle of shark-infested waters.

That's secondary to the whole "actually living a normal life" objection, but I let it pass mostly because the Red Caps are in it for the lulz and a year is like "guys I took a long nap how many years was I out" to them.

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Overall - **. Not an average in this case. It's an arc that uses the imagery of Croatoa extensively but doesn't have much regard for the history of it as presented in-game.


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Guess you're not one for extending the game canon. The possibility of part of the Cabal becomine corrupt is very possible IMO.

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Well, yeah. We've seen a mystic group under siege by a relentless enemy turn to darker arts and strike a Faustian bargain for their survival. Or rather, we see the aftermath all the dang quicksand-lobbing lethal-resisting Chill-of-the-Night-running Behemoth-summoning time.

But their actual process is something we can't get a window into, at least not one that allows for intervention. Exploring the Cabal's progress down that path is certainly a worthwhile effort.

The particular flavor of necromancy you use is just kinda doing it wrong, though, because the Cabal are as physically immortal as the Tuatha and Fir Bolg -- they're only in danger if someone takes a sledge to their spirits. Some of the high-level bosses (though not ones that generally show up in spawns) are actually spirits themselves, the It's-Pronounced-Banshees.

Contradicting the game canon for purposes of extending it is kinda like extending a space station by ramming a cruiser into it. The stability of the "new construction" is, to say the least, compromised, and the old construction isn't exactly reinforced in the process either.

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Given that the Red Caps have no particular aversion to tormenting the civilian populace of Salamanca, and that their aggression against the Cabal is by all appearances entirely voluntary, "leaving the Cabal" is tantamount to "leaving the pirates" when you're on a ship in the middle of shark-infested waters.


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Growing weary of a centuries long war is a definite possibility. Nor is it beyond the realm of possibillity that the Cabal have children. You could definitely interpret the Cabal as a static set of immortal witches - I dont see it that way. I could see them recruiting from the general populace over time - especially if they see someone with magical promise.


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Well, yeah. We've seen a mystic group under siege by a relentless enemy turn to darker arts and strike a Faustian bargain for their survival. Or rather, we see the aftermath all the dang quicksand-lobbing lethal-resisting Chill-of-the-Night-running Behemoth-summoning time.

But their actual process is something we can't get a window into, at least not one that allows for intervention. Exploring the Cabal's progress down that path is certainly a worthwhile effort.

The particular flavor of necromancy you use is just kinda doing it wrong, though, because the Cabal are as physically immortal as the Tuatha and Fir Bolg -- they're only in danger if someone takes a sledge to their spirits. Some of the high-level bosses (though not ones that generally show up in spawns) are actually spirits themselves, the It's-Pronounced-Banshees.

Contradicting the game canon for purposes of extending it is kinda like extending a space station by ramming a cruiser into it. The stability of the "new construction" is, to say the least, compromised, and the old construction isn't exactly reinforced in the process either.


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I haven't seen any reference to MacComber or any of the others being referred to as Spirits or banshees. Sorry, but I haven't violated any canon, at least not by my interpretation of what I've played.

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Something about "placing the amulet into one of the many holes" and that this would be a safe place for it. I thought it meant, like, holes in some monument in the graveyard, but it was actually the teddy, wasn't it? Except leaving it in the care of the ghost child isn't a safe place since the Red Caps already made off with the dang thing once.


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Yep, it was in the Teddie. The bear was in your possession at that point... and you had no clue whether the contact would ever show herself again. The Red Caps had it in their possession and had no idea what was inside and it definitely stymied the Cabal for a year. Seems like as a good place as any, other than digging a hole somewhere in a field.

Again, while you're entitled to your point of view about game canon, 2 starring an arc because it doesnt suit your interpretation is a bit overkill. I'll make a few text changes per your feedback, but major changes to the plot - not happening.

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Some of the high-level bosses (though not ones that generally show up in spawns) are actually spirits themselves, the It's-Pronounced-Banshees.

Contradicting the game canon for purposes of extending it is kinda like extending a space station by ramming a cruiser into it. The stability of the "new construction" is, to say the least, compromised, and the old construction isn't exactly reinforced in the process either.


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I haven't seen any reference to MacComber or any of the others being referred to as Spirits or banshees. Sorry, but I haven't violated any canon, at least not by my interpretation of what I've played.

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Bean Sidhe (sp?) are actual Cabal bosses. I don't believe they're in the random spawner, so they don't show up in the big throwdown with Mary MacComber, but if you play Gordon Bower's arc one or two show up as optional named bosses. They're transparent, have all the powers you'd expect from a banshee, and are to all appearances full members of the Cabal.

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[W]hile you're entitled to your point of view about game canon, 2 starring an arc because it doesnt suit your interpretation is a bit overkill. I'll make a few text changes per your feedback, but major changes to the plot - not happening.

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This thing called an objective review, I've only seen drawings of it in some of the less reputable newspapers. I try and outline the thought process behind the ratings. You're free to agree or not, call them unreasonable or not, but I honestly believe that you hung the entire story on something that just couldn't happen, and that ruined the arc for me. I can't just say, "well, what if I didn't care about how well this part of the story worked", any more than I can say "well, what if I didn't care about how well the maps fit the story" or "well, what if I didn't care about running back from the hospital teleporter four times per spawn" or "well, what if I didn't care about the entire thing being written in something more suggestive of a cat walking across the keyboard than actual English".

The arc's yours to do with as you will, and it seems to be a proud member of the Four-Star Club of Not Complete Horribleness. It may even go to 5 stars once they peel off all the zeroes. Obviously it's working for a lot of people. I'm just not one of them.

Latest review - by Police Woman:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....art=30&amp;vc=1

Plus some more in-game feedback:

[Tell] 2009-07-17 03: 18:42 Message From @&lt;private&gt;: Feedback on Architect Mission Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name....: I loved it I myself used a Halloween themed toon so I fit in perfectly I really loved the story it even made me feel sad for Rose, keep up the good work S, Jack Pumpkin

[Tell] @&lt;private&gt;: Feedback on Architect Mission Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name....: I loved it! it was a haunting story that pulls your heart strings. Very well done.

I'm sloooowly getting close to 100 ratings - hope to get there soon...

Another shameless self promotion , as well as to celebrate my 100th arc rating (yay!):



Next goal: 200 ratings. Who knows, maybe I'll get eventually to 1000.

Played this a little while back and really enjoyed it. I thought it was some great storytelling. I don't really have any useful feedback because nothing stands out as needing to be changed (although I was hoping to see some explanation of the 33-34 level range here, is it a bugged enemy group?). But I thought I'd bump this thread since I thought it was a great 5 star arc worthy of my sig recommendations. Even though I didn't put the full name in so it only bumped off one arc in the list and not two.