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For a more apples and apples comparison, a "normal IO" SR build is around 30% defense. Bane is closer to 15% except for ranged.
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Honestly I guess I should have never said anything about SR, really I was just trying to show how many powers it takes them to get their defenses (regardless of pool if power pools help SR I would include them but they already are using a lot of end and are so tight, whereas the Bane has room). But any way if you are going to do baseline then include the pets, hold, force multiplier, placte, and resistance and health boost, whereas SR just has defense, defense debuffs, and scaling resists.
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Pets can not pull bank boss agro off.
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Bet they can when you placate the boss.
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I mean the fact you need to dip into multiple pools because your primary/secondary can't cover the function of a AT role is a boost amirite?
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Oh I definitely had to comment on this one. Multiple pools? I only talked about 2 pools, I have toons that have dipped into 4 plus the patron/ancil. My Bane w/IOs doesn't need stamina so that eliminate fitness which I am pretty sure some of your toons take. Even without IOs I was running without stamina and not having issues solo with no downtime. The only pools I talked about were Jumping and Leadership, 2 pools. Combat Jumping is a requirment for Super Jump, and Manuvers was a power I took because I didn't have many other choices. So if taking 2 extra pools gimps me then I hate for all the other toons in the game that take a travel power and fitness.
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With the Bane, I almost always have to use Aid Self against bank bosses -
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Aid Self? Means you have stimulant or Aid Other too. You are not going to get enough defense with just Combat Jumping or just Manuvers one slotted try replacing those two with these two and 3 slot them with defenses and that will be and you will have a total of 30.61% defenses supressed.
Or another way would be to take the Hold and hold the boss. With basic slotting it will be a 26 sec hold that recharges in 7.8 sec, or if you have the pets out you might just hold him off the back, at that point you don't really need any defense as you won't be getting hit.
Aid self is good but with other proper powers not necessary, and if it is bosses you are only having trouble with then I would definitely just suggest the hold.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
I think this thread is pretty much done. Unless the OP wants to rename it "How Da Captain is always right, and everyone else is wrong". It's stopped being a constructive discussion. I've posted my ideas for buffs that I think would improve the branch, and I'm done with the bickering. Peace be with you, and good luck!
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I think this thread is pretty much done. Unless the OP wants to rename it "How Da Captain is always right, and everyone else is wrong". It's stopped being a constructive discussion. I've posted my ideas for buffs that I think would improve the branch, and I'm done with the bickering. Peace be with you, and good luck!
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Agreed with you there mate, that is not inaccurate.
Oh the summer madness.
OdiousClan (and also Angry_Citizen) nailed the problems with banes up there. Well done.
I don't know why he compared Banes with /SR anyway. Shields seem more comparable.
Your right Mngwa...
But Banes don't "suck" they are a Villain Epic ArcheType for a reason. They are made for people to use them how every they feel like. Just like the Hero Epic ArcheType, they have choices on what they want to be. They take time to work with and find the exact way you like to use it. Just because it's "not the way" you want it, doesn't mean you can respec and try a different way. If you want a T9... go Widow. If you want more defense, make a Crab. They made it so each path is different so you can choose.
I think the Devs like the Banes how they are, so do I. I do more damage than a Stalker (slotted the same way) and I can take a beating (Cause I slotted for Def/Rech). Just depends on how you want to do it and how you execute it.
Note: Yes. I have invested 1.1B into my build so far and still not done. That's with no purples too. Yes, I do have 41% def to all but Psionics (23%) and 69% to Ranged. I'm not Pure Melee (Took Mace Beam and Spirit Shark). And it's not hard to get money (now) because of AE and the Recipe rolls. Take advantage of that.
I'm done. Go ahead and tear my post apart ^^ I really would like some criticism and if you want, Tell me on the boards and I can give you a look at my build.
Well, if you can soft-cap a Bane, it can't be that bad, correct?
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Well, if you can soft-cap a Bane, it can't be that bad, correct?
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Mine has spoiled me. I rode the gigantic wave of SoA that swept the Rouge Isles in i12. Being soft capped to all at just level 12 or so was awesome. I leveled quickly and got a ton of good drops and inf. Mine is soft capped at melee and ranged, about 40 or so at AoE, high hit points, and high recovery and 45 global damage buff.
He's pretty fun to play, and hits like a Mack truck, but IO a Crab, NW, or Fort just as much, and they can hit harder, and survive longer. All with little or no redraw.
Banes aren't bad, they just pale in comparison to the other SoA when IOs are involved. With SOs it seems to be a bit more even. I see them as a middle of the road SoA that is generally good on teams(-res, nice AoE), and can solo well(hard hitting attacks, along with ST -res and pets to soak aggro from a boss or EB ).
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Being soft capped to all at just level 12 or so was awesome.
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I went bane w/ my SoA at 24, but quickly switched to my second build as a crab because I didn't care for it. Can you suggest a very basic (read: doesn't require hero planner) build that's good?
Thank you.
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Being soft capped to all at just level 12 or so was awesome.
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I went bane w/ my SoA at 24, but quickly switched to my second build as a crab because I didn't care for it. Can you suggest a very basic (read: doesn't require hero planner) build that's good?
Thank you.
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You might have misunderstood what he's talking about. Back when VEATs opened up there were so many on groups that just about everyone was soft capped due to stacking Maneuvers. You won't find that in a regular build. Besides this forum is littered with builds and most of them are still useful for leveling even with the heavy IO slotting.
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Well, if you can soft-cap a Bane, it can't be that bad, correct?
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True, but the way IOs work it isn't really that had to soft cap any AT, I have a Blaster with 56% ranged defense.
As far as a VEAT comparison, according to most as far as self defense (i.e. defense, resists, self heals, etc) Banes apparently are at the bottom of the totem pole (Something I personally don't agree with, if you are going to call an AT broken the least you could do is show your build, that is why I don't take most of these people seriously).
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
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Well, if you can soft-cap a Bane, it can't be that bad, correct?
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You can soft cap a Blaster. 
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Being soft capped to all at just level 12 or so was awesome.
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I went bane w/ my SoA at 24, but quickly switched to my second build as a crab because I didn't care for it. Can you suggest a very basic (read: doesn't require hero planner) build that's good?
Thank you.
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You might have misunderstood what he's talking about. Back when VEATs opened up there were so many on groups that just about everyone was soft capped due to stacking Maneuvers. You won't find that in a regular build.
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This is what I meant. Should have been more clear. Sorry bout that.
But is was pretty freaking awesome.
Yeah, so I reiterate, if you can soft-cap without gimping the build, it can't be that weak, correct?
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Yeah, so I reiterate, if you can soft-cap without gimping the build, it can't be that weak, correct?
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I really like playing Scrappers and Brutes. From that experience I found leveling a Bane to be very mediocre. I really like my Bane because the Wolf costume is appealing to me, and so is his character concept. I also liked the challenge in play style it presented to me. After soft capping it really closed the gap on my opinion from my previous AT experiences. My Bane is quite strong considering IOs. Throw enough infamy at a build, and it should be good though. That doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement either.
I don't dislike playing a bane, but to be quite fair, I suggest you try it yourself, I don't know what you consider to be "bad."
Angry_Citizen said it pretty well, you need to take third pools in order to beef your defense at the cost of endurance. You also need alot of IO sets.
But after you have achieved the soft-cap, it is not going to keep you safe, you will eventually get hit, pretty hard too depending on the difficulty and scenario. Your own powers cannot fully change this situation.
When the HP is blinking red for a reason or another, you got nothing to help through the situation, other than skittles.
But yeah, like said, banes are not down-right broken, but there is room for improvement.
Hmmm, it seems that many people want to play Banes as scrappers or brutes, which of course will be disappointing.
I more or less see the VEATs as team or "gestault" ATs. Individually, they might be okay, possibly mediocre, but when grouped together, are greater than just the sum of their parts.
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I more or less see the VEATs as team or "gestault" ATs. Individually, they might be okay, possibly mediocre, but when grouped together, are greater than just the sum of their parts.
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I can't speak to Banes, but Widows are anything other than mediocre or just "OK" when solo. Their own performance is stellar with or without a team, but when on a team, they improve everyone else's survival.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Ok in that since they are the same, by the way the powers are made up. If I have fire blast that recharges in 4 secs and one that recharges in 8 secs the one that recharges in 8 secs will do more damage. Hince that is why /Elec for Doms has higher damaging melee attacks, because they use more endurance and have more recharge thus making more damage. So in that sense overall the BS pool is not more damaging it just appears that way with the extra end cost and more recharge, so overall they really are the same power.
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You keep using the word "same". I do not think you know what this word means. The powers are similar, but they are not equal. 73 base damage on the Patron blast vs 55 for the Bane blast doesn't just "seem" like more damage either (It actually *IS* more damage). I should be more clear the Patron blast is more front loaded damage.
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That is because you are only looking at the damage, when you look at other things like recharge time and end usage they balence out to be the same.
Bane Mace Beam 55 damage, 4 sec rech, and 5.2 end cost
Patron Mace Beam 72 damage, 9 sec rech, and 8.58 end cost
the extra damage comes from the extra recharge and the extra end usage so in the end you are not really benefiting making them the same power.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp