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Vehicles as travel powers. This gets brought up a lot.
First, a tip on searching.
1. Click on "Search" up at the top of the forum.
2. On the left, under "Forum(s) to search," select "Suggestions and ideas."
3. On the right, Keyword Search Terms. This is probably where your problem was if you did search. Try the following, exactly as typed:
+vehicle -"re: "
This will search for anything with the string "vehicle" in the title.The -re: portion of it removes replies, so you'll see the root of every thread that comes up, letting you see just how many threads there are on this. (The last helps for other subjects, as well.)
Be sure to put the space between the colon and last quote.
4. Click the "In subject" radio button. This is a search, not a cute blonde in a bikini. Here, you want to ignore the body.
5. Leave Username Search blank.
6. Date range, Newer Than, change the 1 to a 3, and the time to Months.
7. Result format doesn't matter. Click on "Submit."
Now, on to the topic at hand....
Short answer, don't expect it.
Long answer:
There are a lot of problems with the idea.
1. Movement.
Forward and back,even turning - ok. But you can do things that a vehicle can't - such as strafe (direct side to side or angular movement.) It doesn't work with a vehicle.
2. Terrain.
Not every place has roads, or even makes sense for "off roading." Go look at Founder's Falls. Go look at Crey's Folley. Or Eden. Try to get to the north islands in Talos. What, do you have a kubelwagen? Look at the Pit in Sharkshead. Try to use your travel power (car) to get up to some of the doorways in high caves. Cars and motorcycles would be more like Superspeed - horizontal movement, period. And look - I'll be blunt - flat out *stupid* tied with, say, Combat Jumping or Superjump.
3. Combat.
You get ambushed on the way. How do you fight? Just have your powers blast out of the rolled up windows? How do you buff or debuff? EVERY power would need a new animation. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Then you want people with motorcycles instead of cars. Redo ALL the animations AGAIN. And they still wouldn't make sense - how do you use Footstomp in a car? Or Stalagmites?
4. Customizing.
Yeah, it would come up. Not everyone would want a sports car, or a mid-70s Buick boat, or an exotic, or a minivan, or whatever else.
5. Making "sense."
This was touched on in terrain - how do you get across water? How about the Shadow Shard? And if you want downright ridiculous looking, go do the heroside 25-34 Respec. Look at the Sky Skiffs inside of rooms or the reactor room. It makes no sense and looks *ridiculous.* Something that, yes, the devs try to avoid.
That's just a quick overview of some of the issues with having vehicles as a travel power.
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In all fairness, did you even read the OP?
Yes this idea gets brought up a lot. But reading over the OP, I saw that a lot of the common issues have been addressed.
That said, if I can't freely travel wherever I want (outside of missions), I'm not really big on the idea of vehicles. This sounds like a "too much work for too little return" suggestion to me.
Well thought out presentation though! Don't let this stop you from making another suggestion the next time you get an idea.
@Roderick
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I just had an idea while playing one day. How cool it might be to have vehicles in the game. I remembered it while playing again today and decided I would Post my crazy idea.
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Repeat after me.
The Search tool is my friend.
I will use the Search tool.
I will read the threads the Search tool recommends.
I will not ignore the Search tool.
The Search tool is God.
If this ever happens again, the Search tool will come to my house and rip my lungs out.
Praise the Search tool!
Blessed are we who use the Search tool.
As to the suggestion about vehicles . . .
In an effort to convey a simple and direct response consisting primarily of the sentiment expressed in the word no, and in the honest belief that such a term is not intrinsically rude or insulting, while nonetheless avoiding the sting of moderation due to the policies outlined by Ex Libris while concurrently avoiding further elaboration upon the aforementioned simple response, the author has shamelessly endeavored to construct a post of artificially ludicrous length yet, he sincerely hopes, undeniably civil and even apologetic tone.
Sadly, the author has been placed in the unfortunate position of crafting a meandering and nearly devoid-of-meaning message due to the misperception, by some, that responding to topics in certain allegedly-more-important sections of these forums with an unadorned no constitutes, in some unfathomable to the author form, a direct and inexcusable attack on the originator of that topic, and indeed, upon the processes of conversation and discussion themselves. From whence this mystical power to stop all discourse arises, the author is sadly ignorant, for it seems to hold no such power in his experience and observation; indeed, it seems innately to promt a renewal of that discourse, in the form of another single and unadorned word: "why?"
In the meantime, the author wishes to renew his apologies for wasting so much of his readers' time in this probably all too vain and futile effort, with the observation that should you the reader have continued perusing these words to this point, it seems an inescapable conclusion that some modicum of entertainment value has been derived from them. Perhaps, if this is indeed the case, it would be advisable for the reader to seek a more fulfilling and engaging form of entertainment - for which, the author would humbly beg the privilege of recommending that the reader actually log onto the City of Heroes/Villains(TM) game servers for an hour or more; such an activity would certainly provide a more enriching and pleasing diversion for him or her (should the reader so elect, they may insert the gender-designative term of their preference here, as the author does not wish to give offense on any grounds aside from the unnaturally drawn-out length of this post).
yes i did read it as hard as it was to read, might wanna try to put double spaces between points, but this will cover it nicely. adn yes, please don't be discurraged from making any more suggestions. just try to remember to search first before you do. it's the one between Main Index and Active Topics. it won't bite i promise 
.
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In all fairness, did you even read the OP?
Yes this idea gets brought up a lot. But reading over the OP, I saw that a lot of the common issues have been addressed.
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With all due respect to you Lavitae, were you aware a vehicles suggestion was just made a week ago on 4/17/09 under the novel title Vehicles?
The OP could have easily added his opinions on vehicles to that thread.
Vehicles
Thank you guys for informing me about the search feature on the forums. Unfortunately I don't use the forums alot and I'm not entirely aware of all the features.
Lol... actually I never even saw the search link til you guys mentioned it. I'll try to make sure I look that up in the future so that I keep all related forum discussion in the same thread.
I know it can seem annoying to see 45 different posts on the same subject all over the place.
Thank you Lavitae for actually posting your input on what I posted.
If someone likes my idea or doesn't, I hope you don't mind listing what you do or don't like about it or how it could be better or what you might do different.
Thanks again
[ QUOTE ]
Repeat after me.
The Search tool is my friend.
I will use the Search tool.
I will read the threads the Search tool recommends.
I will not ignore the Search tool.
The Search tool is God.
If this ever happens again, the Search tool will come to my house and rip my lungs out.
Praise the Search tool!
Blessed are we who use the Search tool.
[/ QUOTE ] I'll put it this way: If you were to write this response down on paper, it wouldn't be good enough to wipe my [censored] with. I mean it, responses like this are, without a doubt, the stupidest and most worthless things you can do while on the internet. Yes, the entire internet.
to the OP: Very well written, but I'll have to unsign for all the reasons already mentioned.
Wow! I read the at least the last most recent post about this subject of vehicles and unfortunately it seems like it resulted in some people being upset.
Although, I think I addressed many of the concerns and problems others spoke of or quoted about vehicles in the post that was put up earlier this week and some problems about vehicles mentioned earlier in my post.
With the way I have presented vehicles at the beginning of this post... I don't believe some of those other issues people mentioned about vehicles is a problem, except for maybe the amount of code. But code goes with almost any addition to a game though.
I hope though that if anyone comes across a bad or frustrating idea that was presented on the forums, it doesn't immediately make you ignore or glance over any future ideas that around the same lines.
Thank you MunKiLord. Based off of Lavitae's and your response. I'll see if there is a way I could make this idea could bring a better return for the players.
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I'll put it this way: blah you blah blah blah blah r blah blah blah, blah blah blah good blah blah blah blah blah blah. I mean it, responses like this are, blah th blah blah b blah est blah blah blah thing blah blah blah on the internet. Yes, the entire internet.
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Why thanks Munki thats so nice of you to say. 
Edit: Corrected mispelled name as per Munki's request.
Well, it looks like you've put some work into trying to work around the restrictions... the problem is, I just dont' see this really... well... I see problems.
1. Can't be used in missions.
This is already a huge drawback. As everybody else flies/jumps/rushes/teleports to wherever - say, a Safeguard mission, you're left sprinting. Or using another travel power, or temp power.
2/3/4. Being used to get to missions/contacts/etc.
I'm thinking (from your later comments) you've got the TP-to-mission (or TP-to-wentworths) style teleporters in mind there. Those do, as you mentioned for this, have a long recharge time. They're also "single target," and somewhat limited. Wentworth's only goes to Wentworth's. Mission TPs can't be used for "Talk to this person" type missions (or "Deliver X to Y" missions.) I don't know if it's a limitation of the power or something about contacts themselves.
There's also ambushes to think of. I mean, they're in there for a reason. Yes, we can skip the occasional one, but with most travel powers, there's at least the risk of having to deal with them - or at least being able to hear "Hey, who's 39 DE ambush is running around Steel?" and cleaning them up.
Now, the teleport to/from the mission does eliminate (some of) the issues with traffice, NPC cars, city design and the like (though I could imagine there still being issues with some - missions in alleys, in gated in sewer grates, etc, and the vehicle either getting stuck or just looking *odd.*
6. Cost. While not a big deal for (many) 50s... think about how much time you spend travelling. It *would* add up. And for 14+? You now have a travel power you really can't use.
"Why aren't you at the mission?"
"Have to sprint, don't have the INF for my travel power." *kick*
Not sure what I think about using salvage, the showroom, etc. I think you're giving *yourself* so many drawbacks nobody would take this as a power pick.
As for the vehicle list... we already have temp jetpacks and such, and a long list of requests for them as a costume item. I can't see those being part of a "vehicle power."
That said - as an invented temp power (one shot) just to get to a mission, strip it down tremendously and you may have something. Taxi and Limo. "Invent" a taxi ride, single use. Use it and show up at the mission, if it's valid for the mission teleporter. You pull up (depending on the temp) in either an old Checker-style cab or a (slightly stretched) limo. Leave things like jetpacks and such as costume items.
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Thank you guys for informing me about the search feature on the forums. Unfortunately I don't use the forums alot and I'm not entirely aware of all the features.
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Which is why it's at the beginning of that cut-paste reply. Trying to get people more aware (and less afraid) of the search feature, and learning how to use it effectively. I've had more people thank me just for the -"re: " bit than I can keep track of.
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I'll put it this way: blah you blah blah blah blah r blah blah blah, blah blah blah good blah blah blah blah blah blah. I mean it, responses like this are, blah th blah blah b blah est blah blah blah thing blah blah blah on the internet. Yes, the entire internet.
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Why thanks Munk thats so nice of you to say.
[/ QUOTE ] If you're gonna shorten my name, it's Munki.
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I'll put it this way: blah you blah blah blah blah r blah blah blah, blah blah blah good blah blah blah blah blah blah. I mean it, responses like this are, blah th blah blah b blah est blah blah blah thing blah blah blah on the internet. Yes, the entire internet.
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Why thanks Munk thats so nice of you to say.
[/ QUOTE ] If you're gonna shorten my name, it's Munki.
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Kilor?
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I'll put it this way: blah you blah blah blah blah r blah blah blah, blah blah blah good blah blah blah blah blah blah. I mean it, responses like this are, blah th blah blah b blah est blah blah blah thing blah blah blah on the internet. Yes, the entire internet.
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Why thanks Munk thats so nice of you to say.
[/ QUOTE ] If you're gonna shorten my name, it's Munki.
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Sure thing. Sorry bout that. I'll fix the spelling now. 
Thank you Memphis_Bill. Just to clarify on how I imagine this power working.
1. not being used in missions. Yea... I wouldn't expect vehicles to be used in missions. I'll use Batman as an example cause i think he's a pretty well known non-superpowered hero. I would think Batman would get out of the batmobile before going into a bank, hotel, or sewer. Also I would never want this ability to replace normal travel powers. Remember this is an "alternate" travel power. You can have it and have flight. For example If Batman and Superman go in a mission. Superman can fly around in the bank but Batman has to leave his batmobile outside. I think taking vehicles into missions would complicate things too much when it comes to fighting, especially when most heroes don't use vehicles to fight, but only to get from one place to another.
As you mentioned about the recharge temp powers yes... I'm thinking that yes it would be a drag and not really make a lot of sense if hero or for example: Batman had to wait to call the batmobile, but so long as he could afford to maintain it and fuel it he could keep using it.
I believe also that as a teleport in some areas may make it look odd for a vehicle to show up in a small area, but the animation of the vehicle pulling up and you on the vehicle would be completely intangible until you were completely out or off of the vehicle and the animation ended.
Ambushes I believe would still work the same. I assume you may be referring to street ambushes. Like when you have a aura mission started. You would run the risk of being ambushed before the vehicle animations starts and a few seconds after the vehicle animations stops. This happens the same with people that have flight. They don't generally get ambushed until they come down out of the air or at the end of the animation for exiting a mission.
As far as travel powers. I'm sorry if it seemed as though this was intended to be an idea used as a selectable leveling power like the normal travel powers. This would be a power you would purchase. Just like you purchase powers at Wentworths or something. But instead it would be at the garage. So yes, a lvl 14 toon could get flight at level 14 and then go to "the garage" for example and purchase a vehicle. Although, the way I'm thinking a level 14 in know way could be able to afford to make or have a vehicle. From a roleplaying stand point, if you will, level 14 is too early in a heroes career to afford a super vehicle. I like to imagine that not until maybe the lvl 30ish to 40 area could a hero then start to afford a vehicle. but even then in your hero career and the 30ish realm you might not be using it to often. I think not until the 40's and especially 50's could you afford to maintain a vehicle but it would also be something that lower levels could aspire to. A wise player would probably still get their normal travel power, but as they level they should be able to reward themselves with something that can get them around pretty much instantaneously. For something like that its gotta have a good draw back and its gotta be able to do something that the other normal travel powers can't. The major draw back is that it costs you influence. The Major benefit is that it gets you around almost instantaneously.
For example some high lvl guys are running a TF but you gotta leave where you are to go all the way to a contact in another part of paragon. you could just use your vehicle to travel all the way there and back. Or you could just use your normal travel power. Keep in mind that the amount of influence I suggested was just something off the top of my head. it doesn't have to be that high or that low or under the conditions I suggested but I believe it should be costly in the sense that you are not likely to abuse it and ignore the normal travel powers. For example... you may be more likely to use your normal travel power when traveling back and forth in one zone from contact to mission or mission to mission, and only use the vehicle for important long distant travels. But at the same time if you money to burn like Bruce Wayne.... "have at it" lol
Besides because this is something that lowbies can't easily maintain or use frivolously I think if a player really wants that ability they have to put in some good play time and probably be a good active player.
Also, I've noticed something in my time playing CoX. If a player sees a few other players (especially sometimes higher level toons or Veteran players) with something special it tends to inspire or encourage them to get it also.
Sorry I didn't add in quotes from your statement Memphis but I didn't want this to be too long when people read it. it already seemed to be getting that way
Forgot about your comments about the jet packs Memphis. I agree
Heh. Not a problem. I was actually updating my little cut/paste thing, and it seems we're thinking along the same lines. I've been spending some time updating that cut/paste bit, and added this...
Further discussion
This I think merits a bit of extra commentary, honestly.
"Vehicles" covers a lot of different ground for different people. Some only consider cars/jets/motorcycles vehicles. Others add jetpacks, wings and the like. Much of the above considers cars and similar sized vehicles, with nods to motorcycle type vehicles.
Jetpacks and such, I don't see happening as travel powers. As costume options for Flight? Or as invented pieces that interact with Fly, similar to wings? Absolutely - but they don't need to be a separate travel power for that. I'm all for more jetpack and wing (or combination) designs. Besides, there are so many "temp" jetpacks, I don't see introducing yet another one as really being feasable - just my opinion.
But vehicles - cars, specifically - as a travel power, have issues.
One way to have them "somewhat" work.
For all that, I know some people *would* still like to pull up in front of a mission. So how do we do it?
A temporary power, based on the same tech from the Mac/Valkyrie pack Mission Teleporter. The temporary power would:
(a) be an invention - dropping from enemies. (A reward, because you saved... well, we'll get to that,)
(b) be a single use each time - you can only hold one at a time, not one of each, one total.
(c) use rarely used salvage, because... it's rarely used, and cheap. No Luck Charms here.
(d) come in multiple varieties.
How does this get around the various issues?
<ul type="square">[*]Terrain - It doesn't pass terrain. It just arrives.[*]It follows the same 'rules' as the mission teleporter - it's not indoors, doesn't go to contacts, etc. Just mission doors. [*]Customizing - It's not "your" vehicle. It's a temp power. You've called a cab, limo, or other transport.[*]Power animation - since you're skipping the space in between, no powers can be used 'til you arrive anyway. [/list]
The varieties?
- Limo: Stereotypical slightly stretched black limo.
- Checker cab: The classic yellow cab.
- Alien "drop pod" thing. Just for giggles.
- Burrower - Think mole machine, but not quite.
Now, part of the issue with these are still animating your character getting in or out. How do we deal with these?
In: Who cares. You teleport away. We copy the Mission Teleporter power. Not as "cool," but less intensive to work on. And you can use it to leave from inside the mission, SG base, Pocket D or wherever. It's an MMORPg. RP that you called a cab.
Exiting: You don't get animated.
- Limo: Pulls up. NPC driver gets out, opens door, flashes (or just bright light) from inside (think papparazi or some such.) You appear.
- Cab: It's an old cab. It pulls up in a cloud of exhaust when it stops. When the exhaust cloud clears, you're there.
- Alien drop pod - *Plop* - Steam - It dissolves, you're there.
- Burrower - Pops "out of the ground," releases steam, you're there and it's back underground.
I kind of imagine in my mind the thug master mind henchman that fades in on the motorcycle then becomes tangible. Then the Motorcycle later fades away. I think in my imagination this is how I picture each person driving up whether in a car or on a motorcycle.
I have to admit that I threw jet packs in to the vehicle list at the last minute because when thinking of #8 Customization I started to think how cool it might be for some people to be able to Customize their own Jet packs. but overall I don't look at Jet packs as vehicles.
But all in all the whole Customization and even the Showroom idea are just frills and such to attract more players to it since there is very little if anything about normal travel powers that you can customize. I've always noticed that a majority of CoX players love expressing and exploring their creativity, whether its just Costume Contests, Archetype Builds, and now Architect Entertainment. Customizing a vehicle would be that added attraction.
The idea of a taxi is even good, but Its gotta be a spectacular Taxi i think. not a simple ol' yellow cab. Its gotta be something worthy of a hero that they wouldn't mind rolling up in. Although then again, some back alley hero might just roll up in a yellow cab (but I would like to think it has dylithium crystals fueling the engine lol)
Great work as always Bill. 
I can't wait to add this to the rest of your Vehicle statement.
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Great work as always Bill. I can't wait to add this to the rest of your Vehicle statement.
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Full one's in the other thread, just added, with disclaimer.
Instead of a taxi give us a bus.
We could then use those silly bus stops.
We run up to the nearest bus stop, click to activate it. That summons a bus to appear and stop where we get on, the screen changes and then we get dropped off at the closest bus stop to our mission.
Just kidding.
I guess this vehicle power would 1st start of a recipe power among many that you would purchase and the pay to craft and pay to use and maintain... as with any real life vehicle. yea I know we don't craft our own vehicles in real life but superheroes have to. lol
I think the salvage wouldn't be any different than the the typical salvage that you pick up. Although some vehicles that are rare might have rare salvage. For example pulling up on a Motorcycle might be cheaper than a Lamborgini, and that cheaper than a small space pod or shuttle.
man excuse my spelling... I think its time for me to go to bed. my grammar in that last reply was terrible. I think I may need to get some sleep :P lol
I should've said:
The "...vehicle power would 1st start off as a recipe power among many to choose from, that you would purchase and pay..."
I just had an idea while playing one day. How cool it might be to have vehicles in the game. I remembered it while playing again today and decided I would Post my crazy idea.
This is how I would imagine it.
Vehicles would be an alternate travel power but not without fringe benefits and some draw backs and restrictions.
1. vehicles can't be used in buildings or in missions. (unlike normal travel powers)
2. vehicles could only be used to get you from missions, to contacts, or SG bases. (this would keep people from cluttering up places like Atlas Park's Administration Building for example.)
3. Once you select the power, you get to choose a Contact, Mission, or your SG base (if you have the latter) and go to it.
4. You click your power and your vehicle shows up. Your toon goes into an animation of getting in or on the vehicle and then you take off. if you're going to a contact or mission you appear in front of said contact or mission with the animation of you getting off or out of your vehicle. Then your vehicle fades away or leaves.
5. The power only works if you're close to the ground.
6. Because this alternate travel power seems to work like a quick teleport power, it should have some really big disadvantages to it. I don't like the # of uses or long recharge time difficulties on some powers. So imagine this would have a disadvantage but a unique one. Every time you use the ability it would cost you influence (I haven't picked out a number for this, but I imagine it might be something starting at 100,000 influence or so, but that's just a random number). Every time you use your vehicle within a 24 hour period, the amount of influence will go up, maybe even double. I believe thats an adequate draw back for such an amazing power. Plus it should help to reduce the possibility of people abusing the power.
7. The reasoning behind the paying of influence every time you use your vehicle power, would translate as maintenance and gas. you're actually using your influence or paying to keep your vehicle going. (you gotta imagine every time a super hero gets inside his super vehicle, its' not cheap... those things run on rocket fuel and nuclear reactor cores lol). If you don't have enough influence to use the power then the power will be inactive until you earn enough influence or until a 24 hour period has elapsed and you can afford to use the vehicle again.
8. Customization. This is the largest endeavor I think of the whole thing. Imagine several templates and prerendered models and parts that you can add to your vehicle including color. All this would take place at what I imagine would be a "City Garage" where heroes (or villains) would go to buy recipes for a vehicle and actually put together the salvage necessary for certain parts they want to add to their vehicles. This way you can design your own unique looking vehicle to fit your type of hero (or villain) Of course all of this would cost influence. (again the customization is a big stretch and isn't necessary to have the idea work, but I believe it would entice players to want to partake in the whole vehicle idea)
9. Yep Salvage... I believe this increases game play. You would need Salvage to make the parts to add to your vehicle.
10. Vets not needed. I didn't imagine this ability only being available to people that have been playing for several years, but at the same time not for those that haven't earned the influence to create or use vehicle. Because influence is needed to use the vehicle and customize it, I believe Vets probably wouldn't have a hard time using influence to make one. Also active players will also surely earn the influence in good time to create and customize a vehicle also.
11. The Showroom. Since usually people won't really be able to get a good look at your vehicle but for 3 to 5 seconds when you appear in front of a contact or mission. I think a showroom would be nice for people to name & display a saved image of their vehicle designs so that other players could look at vehicles others have created for ideas and inspiration.
12. Vehicles. Well, the type of vehicles I imagine 1st off would be... Jet Packs, Motorcycles, Cars, Mack Trucks (w/out the trailer). I would like to add helicopters and jets to this list but c'mon guys even my imagination has limits. lol I know it may not seem that way.
Again, this idea isn't intended to replace normal travel powers. This power will cost influence that normally low level toons will properly and justly so prefer to use on enhancements instead of a vehicle. but hey if you're lvl 22 and want to use your influence on a vehicle instead of enhancements, you would look good pulling up and leaving the mission, but you would suck inside of it. lol
Oh well, this all is just an idea of the imagination... whether fun or entirely impractical; I figure this is the forum to post it. I imagine others may have at some time or another at some point of playing this game probably wished their character could drive up in a hot rod or ride up on a supped up Harley.