Kheldian Issue July 2007 post issue 10 - draft
By
Darth_Khasei,
Posted on: 2007-07-30 08:16 in Kheldians
gah, done.
Any suggestions, comments, remarks, ... are welcome. Time to fix those 2 AT once and for good.
(cockies and pies are welcome, too)
Yes, I would like to shorten it, especially knowing myself that writing doesn't bother me, pretty much the opposite in fact. But I don't think it would be possible before the devs are reminded from everything that cover kheldians.
Hmm, comments.
The warshade corpse issue - is a bit goofy. I have had Eclipse fail, playing the *entire* animation with the body disappearing on the way down - yet having Stygian credit me for the corpse. So I get some HP/End but no fuzzball. If the corpse is viable at the beginning, it should count, period.
I'm "eh" about the Flight power pool being available for 'shades. All I *really* miss from it is Air Superiority. Same with TP for PBs.
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Dark extraction pet retained after player death : if the player die, any extracted essences pet will remain until defeated.
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Due to the prerequisites of needing a corpse, I do not believe this is a bug. The essences have their own timer, and will fade in time if not defeated. They do not have Controller "permapet" status. This, then, is incorrect.
IOs - please see my "State of the AT" bit, and other discussions here, about IOs carrying through forms. It is "working as intended" per _Castle._ IO set bonuses staying through forms is not a bug.
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Second problem, group composition : it wouldn't really be one if the inherent gave pure buffs. It is when the human form is balanced about what should be in the group. Especially in the resistance and mez protection category, while the human form is melee centered (lightly for the warshade, heavily for the peacebringer). With the new cooperation introduced in Issue 10, the composition of the group matters even more, especially with the blurry nature of the villains AT between their roles.
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I think this need to be a bit rephrased away from a specific non-exclusive 'fix' here.
I truly, 1000% do not believe that they will spread out the Mezz protection from Controllers and Dominators.
Why bother having controllers/dominators?
Really, the problem is that the lower limit on mezz protection without Controllers/Dominators. They should enhance existing powers like +Dam/+Resistance works best by enhancing the slotted up powers you have.
So I'm more for advocating a base +4 Mezz Protection (shield, passives *WHATEVER*) that Dominators/Controllers add on top of. Proably a +2 Mag protection.
Yes, on teams, they become more tank-magery, but right now this sitaution is making them glass-jaw wimps.
Still here, even after all this time!
Yeah, I am still looking how to rephrase it.
For the base -4 inherent mez protection, I dunno. Maybe if we had much data about what was expected about kheldian. The idea to spead out all the bonuses from I-Link and tying them partially to the group size and not only to the AT was to keep the initial idea to promote teaming, as kheldian were also designed around this.
Anyway I'll add it to the list as another possibility.
Memphis_Bill ,
The warshade corpse mechanics are working nearly as expected with stygian circle, but it's the only based corpse power doing that. It might related to the fact Stygian circle is on a 1.1s cast time, while dark extraction and unchain essence are on a 3.2s cast time. Anyway, having stygian circle working correctly doesn't fix the other powers that will fail if the corpse disappears during the animation, consuming the endurance and setting the power in recharge in the process.
For the flight and teleport pool, it's just because I don't think the devs can give a partial access to the powerpools without a lot of work behind. Air Superiority is asked as a partial access for peacebringer, so if it's possible, then fine, and it'll be used for the others.
About the retained essence, I'll move it as an unkown feature asking to know if it's intended or not, then.
Concerning the IOs, was there any confirmation from _castle_ it was intended ? Because all I remember is a dev (bab I think) saying us it wouldn't work with the forms in the end because of a limitation, and later, when some players found it was in fact working, _castle_ being happily suprised of this. I remember him saying it was what they aimed for, but I don't remember any of them saying this working, despite what they though, as intended.
what's here is just to know what's the stance about this, and not just hoping they won't mess with the code and ignoring the raised issue after because having the sets bonuses working on all forms was just pure luck, it wasn't possible in the first time.
I'll read your tidbits, anyway. If you're absolutly sure of this, I'll remove it.
That one has been beated bloody. They work and there is no plan to change that is what Castle said in the end. I thought it was funny they found out they were working across all forms from ppl on the boards.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Concerning the IOs, was there any confirmation from _castle_ it was intended ? Because all I remember is a dev (bab I think) saying us it wouldn't work with the forms in the end because of a limitation, and later, when some players found it was in fact working, _castle_ being happily suprised of this. I remember him saying it was what they aimed for, but I don't remember any of them saying this working, despite what they though, as intended.
what's here is just to know what's the stance about this, and not just hoping they won't mess with the code and ignoring the raised issue after because having the sets bonuses working on all forms was just pure luck, it wasn't possible in the first time.
I'll read your tidbits, anyway. If you're absolutly sure of this, I'll remove it.
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When I wrote that bit for the city scoop, I asked Castle directly if it was a bug or not, and if we should be ready to see it disappear at some point in the future.
His response was that while it wasn't what he was told to expect to see, it's what he *wanted* to see, and he's perfectly happy with the bonuses carrying over regardless of form. It won't be "fixed" because it's not broken.
Here's the full exchange:
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I've been tapped to write a "State of the AT" for Khelds. One of the issues is, of course, IOs. I think there's some confusion as to how they work vs how they're *supposed* to work with Khelds and forms.
1. Testing seems to indicate that IOs in forms have their set bonuses "always on," regardless of form (Dwarf, Human, or Noval.) Does this match what you are seeing?
2. A prior statement by you seemed to indicate that wasn't planned, if it is happening. Does that mean:
- Oh, great, it does work, we'll leave it alone, or
- that's a bug, don't get attached to it?
3. If that's a bug, how are IOs supposed to work with forms? How is the set bonus stacking limit supposed to take forms into account in this case? Would the limit be global, or active only per form? (If it's not a bug... disregard, obviously.)
This would be a *big* help to know.
Thanks in advance.
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His response:
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1) Yes, it matches what I've seen in testing. No, it does NOT match what I was told would happen.
2) I don't consider it a bug; I considering it working the way I intended it to.
3) See above. 
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One thing with the inherent is no bonus grouping with other khelds. Easy way is make Dwarf = tanker, nova = blaster, human = controller for bonuses when balance checks ever 10 seconds, or can create new ones for them.
Every thing you said about the PB is dead on. I really like the suggestion of on of the first two choices being changed to a melee attack. I play my human form PB much like I do a sccrapper. Also I love LD, But I would like it to be knock up rather than back. I hope the devs see this and say something.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
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One thing with the inherent is no bonus grouping with other khelds. Easy way is make Dwarf = tanker, nova = blaster, human = controller for bonuses when balance checks ever 10 seconds, or can create new ones for them.
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Damn, that's a great idea. Wish I had though of it
I do agree with the idea of getting something for teaming up with other Khelds, otherwise it seems to advocate that people using these ATs should not team together.
As for replacing Glint Eye or Gleam Blast for another melee attack, I dont know if the damage is subpar and all, but I would rather have it upped then replaced with another melee attack.
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Voids, Quantums, dwarves, novas and Cyst Crystal
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I noticed that the reward/balance of Voids/Quantums wasn't resurrected from the old thread. (Not the fault of the guy who did all the research, there are a lot of minor things there.)
Basically it boiled down to all of our powers being knocked down by the GDN and then ED to make Kheldian's match the rough power level (solo) of most characters.
In theory, this would be very good, though I've noticed that I'm slightly too squishy against Bosses and Elite Bosses.
The problem is that while Kheldian's were rebalanced versus all normal mobs, all Quantum/Voids were left with the super-massive-unresistable damage at their old levels.
As a note: A +2 Void Slayer can one-shot a Kheldian.
Voids/Quantums are also designed to detoggle (minor stun) and knockdown very heavily. We can sort of work around the KD know (thank you Inventions!) but we have no recourse other than teaming with *particular* builds to not get stunned.
This is, of course, on top of the fact that they are an *additional* threat in a spawn already designed (supposedly) to challange the player. On teams, this is not a bit deal. One more out of ten mobs and it only plinks your team mates is nothing. Solo, an ambush with two Lts Longbow Wardens, several minions *and* a void minion was a guaranteed face-plant for a level 48 warshade on *heroic*.
<ul type="square">
[*] Remove the detoggling powers ore make it a much lower percentage. We have been told that powers strictly designed to detoggle were not cool (way back from the Mag 50 mezz that level 35+ Longbow used to have.)
[*] Rescale the damage of the anti-kheldian damage on Voids and Quantums so that it only adds up to 30% more damage at best There should be no reason that NPCs have a "I win" button against PCs.
[*]Double check that Kheldian's can actually survive that extra spawn solo and on teams. Added danger is good, overwhelming having to use lots of inspiration for a normal spawn on heroic is a sign of a problem.[/list]
Still here, even after all this time!
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One thing with the inherent is no bonus grouping with other khelds. Easy way is make Dwarf = tanker, nova = blaster, human = controller for bonuses when balance checks ever 10 seconds, or can create new ones for them.
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Damn, that's a great idea. Wish I had though of it
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Thats a good idea. The one I'd mentioned in the past was PB's getting +acc/+dam (5%/10% or so) for each WS (to represent racial anger) and WS getting +regen for each PB (to represent the leeching of the "pure" Kheld energy). Can't remember the thoughts I had for WS to WS and PB to PB buffs though, but with more and more SG's being Kheld only, some sort of buff would be nice.
Hak Inc�
"Justice by the sword since 2005"
"......anyone who read the description of a blaster and actually rolled one up isn't capable of understanding... how to breath without visual aids and an iron lung." - TheMightyScourge
�Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.�
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One thing with the inherent is no bonus grouping with other khelds. Easy way is make Dwarf = tanker, nova = blaster, human = controller for bonuses when balance checks ever 10 seconds, or can create new ones for them.
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Damn, that's a great idea. Wish I had though of it
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Thats a good idea. The one I'd mentioned in the past was PB's getting +acc/+dam (5%/10% or so) for each WS (to represent racial anger) and WS getting +regen for each PB (to represent the leeching of the "pure" Kheld energy). Can't remember the thoughts I had for WS to WS and PB to PB buffs though, but with more and more SG's being Kheld only, some sort of buff would be nice.
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Well, human-form to human form should be blocked by the 'logic' of it, but gaining a bonus from Dwarf and Nova makes perfect sense.
Still here, even after all this time!
Yay! Stickied and (hopefully) protected so it doesn't disappear like the last one did because I didn't make sure to respond each week.
Still here, even after all this time!
While I love my PB, some knockback to knockdown would be great, if nothing other then Solar Flare.
And something done about the mez protection granted by Trollers and Doms. I understand that khelds arn't intended to have mez resistence/protection all the time, but I would like the resistence and/or protection we could get from 'trollers and doms looked at. Maybe give some resistence and protection.
Thanks for the sticky
As the original list is long enough, I'll post only the new or revision of existing material. It'll be integrated in the next kheldian issues version.
I - Cosmic Balance/Dark Sustenance inherent signature power
<ul type="square">[*]Viability : removed, as separated in the 2 following entries
[*]Insufficient Mez protection : new entry,
the low mez protection buff per controller/dominator make it useless at best. Kheldians were designed as a team oriented AT, but a bigger group size also raise the number of opponents. Incidentally, mez attacks become much more prevalent and common. To be usefull, if you don't have a bubbler or your dedicated empath, you'll need 4 controllers in the team for a reliable mez protection from I-Link to overcome nearly everything. At this point you don't care with mez protection at all. If anything is still able to attack and move, it's because it's a boss that didn't get his 2nd layer of mez effect yet.
Also, the lack of mez protection force the kheldian to only rely to the dwarf form, thus being unable to use his adaptability in situation where there are a lot of mezzing attacks (arachnos, carnies, maltas, ... and riktis). A single mez is enough to remove a lot of possibilities to a kheldian, save sitting in dwarf form if he had this luck.
wishlist : Multiples proposed changes :
Redlynne proposition : changing the kheldians inherent i-link to considerate the team size, in addition of the number of controller/dominator present. The values are still up to be exactly determinated.
Basically, each non controller/dominator member will add -0.5 up to -0.75 mag protection vs (same mez protections I-link currently give).
Each controller/dominator will add -0.5 up to -1 mag protection vs (same mez protections I-link currently give)
This will give, depending of the initial protection per teammate :
- with 0 controllers : from -3.5 mag protection up to -5.25 mag protection
- With 7 controllers/dominators : from -7 mag protection up to -12.25 mag protection
Futurias proposition : keeping the kheldians I-link as is it currently, but adding a base -4 mez protection in it. While it would emphasing less on the team oriented design, it'll also allow soloer to be much less dependant to break free inspirations.
Special note : The general consensus between high level warshade players would be to NOT GAIN any status protection increase to prevent any nerf to the Umbral Aura/Eclipse power. It wasn't changed since release, it should stay as is. For any explanation, try eclipse fully slotted by yourself, it's the sort of power that must be feeled instead of explained.
[*]Highly variable team bonuses : new entry
it wouldn't really be a problem if the I-link inherent power gave just buffs. It is when the human form is balanced about those buffs, and so, what should be in the group. That is resistance, mez or damage, with a low hp melee centered human form (lightly for the warshade, heavily for the peacebringer). With the new cooperative zone introduced in Issue 10, the group composition matters even more, especially with the blurry nature of the villains AT between their roles.
wishlist : This one is expanding the proposal from Redlynne about mez protection. Also, as the mez protection is discussed in a separate issue, it won't be covered here.
The suggestion is to get half the bonuses from the size of the group, no matter who is in. It'll ensure kheldians still get a part of the bonuses they were expected to receive. Through the other half, it'll still give some incentive to the I-link power. This idea and the numbers are still up to determine, but the initial idea would look like this :
According the supposed group composition a kheldian should have, the final bonuses for a 8 men group size would be : +25% damage, +12.5% res.
The bonuses specific from each different AT in the group would be : +12.5% damage or +6.25% res.
This will also ensure to have base bonuses from any kheldian brethen in the group, and remove the hindrance a kheldian bring to another one when in the same group.
An optionnal and interesting possibility would be to increase the bonuses each AT in the group provide, but adding diminishing returns after the first. Noneless, the mez protection should remain tied to the group size in addition of the group teammates.
[*]Kheldian discrimination : new entry (raptis)
Kheldian I-link give no bonus at all for any other kheldian in the group. Worse, it even suggests that more than one kheldian in a group is a hindrance. While there maybe was a good reason behind this, it wasn't revisited after the changes kheldians had since their release, ED and GDF.
wishlist : add bonuses dependant of the other kheldians current form. Dwarf form being considerated as a tanker, nova form as a blaster, and human form as a controller, or could also give a different bonus type (recharge, recovery, regen, accuracy, defense, ...)[/list]
I - human form shields not appealing : new entry
The peacebringer and warshade resistance shield toggles aren't appealing because of multiples problems mixed together. First, the shields are incompatible with the forms, so the instant you shapeshift to another form, all of them will be disabled. Second, the lack of mez protection make the retoggling of the 3 shield problematic as hell.
Fact is, unless going for a human form only build, it's highly suggested to skip all of them. If one must be taken, be it the S/L shield.
wishlist : multiples proposition here, it's worth nothing most of them are dependant of a lack of change to the I-link mez protection level.
- Finding a way to keep them activated, while shifted into another form, even if they provide no bonuses in those forms.
- Adding a mag -1 or mag -2 mez protection (to everything allowed to be covered) to each shield.
- Changing them to passive res shield, but still exclusive (no bonuses) with the nova and dwarf form.
- Changing them to positionnal defense based shield, that will allow indirect mez protection as they will be prevented to land on their target.
I - Invention system
<ul type="square">[*]Sets bonuses and forms : removed. (Memphis_Bill) [/list]
I - Voids, Quantums, dwarves, novas and Cyst Crystal
<ul type="square">[*]Reward vs risk after ED and Global Defense Nerf : new entry, (Futurias)
Quantum and void have still the same irrational damage output since kheldian release. As a reminder, the damage output is : damage + 3*initial damage, non resistable, with a chance to stun, on a kheldian. Not forgetting the fact a Q/V/C will spawn in addition of a normal sized spawn, and will have a tendancy to target a kheldian despite the presence of a tank.
While all AT were diminished from their previous state before ED/GDN, neither voids or quantum were modified to reflect at least kheldian loss of power.
Also, the threat from a +2 V/Q boss is too high, it'll generaly end in a one shot kill or a nearly one shot attack, and sometimes a stun effect on top of this. Is this expected to be fun ?
wishlist : the following changes are needed :
- Remove the detoggling status effect or make it at a much lower percentage. We were told that powers strictly designed to detoggle were not cool.
- Rescale the damage of the anti-kheldian damage on Voids and Quantums so that it only adds up a reasonable increased damage. There should be no reason that NPCs have an instant "I win" button against players.
- Double check that Kheldian's can actually survive that extra spawn solo and on teams. Added danger is good, overwhelming danger with the need of a lot of inspirations for a normal spawn on heroic is a problem.[/list]
I - Temporary power and forms : new entry
All non passive temp power are restricted to be usable in human form only.
While it may be understandable for some of them for animation limitation, it isn't for all others and even prevent us to freely use buyable temporary powers. Like the vanguard temp powers using merits as a currency.
The following temp power types should be usable without any form restriction :
- all summoning pets powers, this includes the Shivan and Vanguard HVAS
- all shield and phasing powers, this includes the wedding band, cryonite armor, vanguard shield and hyper phase
- all heal self, heal other and buff/debuff powers, this includes the warbug rocket and the nectanebo's curse breaker temp power.
I - bugs :General out of category
<ul type="square">[*]nova form messing up other form shield visual FX : New entry
if you have timed buff giving your character a visual effect shaped around your character (for example, sonic, thermal radiation or cold domination shields), and you switch to the nova form and switch back to human or dwarf, the shield won't cover the right leg as long as it doesn't expire. Refreshing it won't allow to correct the visual effect.
Some examples : before, after 1, after 2, after 3 (different shield)[/list]
III - Dark extraction pet retained after player death : new entry (Memphis_Bill), was [III - bug] before
is this intentionnal ? Given the fact it is on short duration and can't be created without the support of a nearby corpse, it might be. It should be leaved as is until an answer is available.
Something related to Q/V, after a Lady Grey TF :
8 men group from the start to the end, heroic difficulty, cooperative (6 heroes, 2 villains), one kheldian doing the meat shield in dwarf form (myself, with the peacebringer). Blazing through 5 missions, successfuly completed, few deaths.
I did a mistake here : only counting the number of Q/V bosses that was present, and not the totality of them without considerating their rank.
Also, it is worth noting an orange Q boss will deals around 35-40% of a dwarf hp as total damage. Considering I have 2184 hp in dwarf form (level 50, with accolades and some bonus sets, without dull pain), that's still between 764 to 873 total damage for a level 49 boss.
Warning, mild spoilers may follow about this tf :
First mission : 3 Rikti Q bosses, one void minion and one rikti infantry in the clockworks ambushes.
Second mission : 2 Rikti Q bosses, not sure of one so it may be 3 in fact. None in a rider spawn, but one Q boss was in the nearest spawn to them
Third mission : 3 Riktis Q bosses, and 1 void boss in an ambush after liberating an hostage.
Fourth mission : there are 6 pylons, so if you go directly to the objective, you'll have only 6 rikti spawns to fight. 1 Rikti Q boss in one of them.
Fifth and last mission : stopped counting after 5 Rikti Q bosses, while we skipped half of the map with the help of a stealther teleporting us in front of the final room. Also, there was a cyst as part of an ambush in the final room.
That's just insane for a tf done in heroic 
Ok, the maps are big, but still.
BTW, the Nictus/Quantum damage is unresistable, with a high chance of stun *and* knockdown. Sadly, even just removing part of this made the characters much easier to play.
Still here, even after all this time!
You're right, I forgotten the kd part. The line is also rephrased on my side to separate much cleary the unresistable part.
I noticed in the first post the problem with Dwarves tanking due to Quantams and Voids. May I suggest that perhaps the Dwarf form be given resistance to Nicti damage as part of the inherent abilities (so that it is dependant on the number of teammates). Not sure if its possible, but I thought of this last night and thought I would toss this out there.
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Something related to Q/V, after a Lady Grey TF :
8 men group from the start to the end, heroic difficulty, cooperative (6 heroes, 2 villains), one kheldian doing the meat shield in dwarf form (myself, with the peacebringer). Blazing through 5 missions, successfuly completed, few deaths.
I did a mistake here : only counting the number of Q/V bosses that was present, and not the totality of them without considerating their rank.
Also, it is worth noting an orange Q boss will deals around 35-40% of a dwarf hp as total damage. Considering I have 2184 hp in dwarf form (level 50, with accolades and some bonus sets, without dull pain), that's still between 764 to 873 total damage for a level 49 boss.
Warning, mild spoilers may follow about this tf :
First mission : 3 Rikti Q bosses, one void minion and one rikti infantry in the clockworks ambushes.
Second mission : 2 Rikti Q bosses, not sure of one so it may be 3 in fact. None in a rider spawn, but one Q boss was in the nearest spawn to them
Third mission : 3 Riktis Q bosses, and 1 void boss in an ambush after liberating an hostage.
Fourth mission : there are 6 pylons, so if you go directly to the objective, you'll have only 6 rikti spawns to fight. 1 Rikti Q boss in one of them.
Fifth and last mission : stopped counting after 5 Rikti Q bosses, while we skipped half of the map with the help of a stealther teleporting us in front of the final room. Also, there was a cyst as part of an ambush in the final room.
That's just insane for a tf done in heroic
Ok, the maps are big, but still.
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Bear in mind that a slight coding bug means that Rikti Quant gunners show as enemies to regular Rikti - leave them alone and they will fight it out amongst themselves.
Hak Inc�
"Justice by the sword since 2005"
"......anyone who read the description of a blaster and actually rolled one up isn't capable of understanding... how to breath without visual aids and an iron lung." - TheMightyScourge
�Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.�
[ QUOTE ]
Bear in mind that a slight coding bug means that Rikti Quant gunners show as enemies to regular Rikti - leave them alone and they will fight it out amongst themselves.
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Yup, and the bug is also listed in the Q/V/C section. But the enemy flag is not dependant of the quantum status of the riktis, it's dependant of a bug related to teleported reinforcement being flagged as enemy to the already present troops.
In other words, the quantum in the spawn won't be attacked by his unit brethen. The whole unit might be, or not, attacked by surrounding and theorically friendly spawn. If you pay more attention, you'll see that many time, when a quantum gunner of the wrong faction appear in a spawn, he won't even be threatened. Even if it's a vanguard spawn.
There are 2 different bugs at work here.
Currently, the only time you'll see voids, novas, dwarves and cyst killed on sight by anything whatever their faction is, will only be on pvp maps.
Phantom_Fox,
Thanks for the idea, but it's already present since the initial version 
It's in I -Dwarf form / High vulnerability to quantum/void damage
Thanks for posting anyway, suggestions are always welcome.
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Bear in mind that a slight coding bug means that Rikti Quant gunners show as enemies to regular Rikti - leave them alone and they will fight it out amongst themselves.
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Yup, and the bug is also listed in the Q/V/C section. But the enemy flag is not dependant of the quantum status of the riktis, it's dependant of a bug related to teleported reinforcement being flagged as enemy to the already present troops.
In other words, the quantum in the spawn won't be attacked by his unit brethen. The whole unit might be, or not, attacked by surrounding and theorically friendly spawn. If you pay more attention, you'll see that many time, when a quantum gunner of the wrong faction appear in a spawn, he won't even be threatened. Even if it's a vanguard spawn.
There are 2 different bugs at work here.
Currently, the only time you'll see voids, novas, dwarves and cyst killed on sight by anything whatever their faction is, will only be on pvp maps.
Phantom_Fox,
Thanks for the idea, but it's already present since the initial version
It's in I -Dwarf form / High vulnerability to quantum/void damage
Thanks for posting anyway, suggestions are always welcome.
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That's actually incorrect. I've seen voids actually killed by Longbow and Rikti in all the new missions, but not old ones.
I think they created some new "mobs" for the "new missions" and forgot to set the faction correctly on Voids in them.
Still here, even after all this time!
Well, actually in that section of the initial post it only suggests giving Dwarf a resistance to Voids/Quantams as far as I can tell. My main suggestion was for scaling resistance based on the number of members of the team. Did I miss that?
Time to revive the horse to keep beating him to death. Yeah, it's already dead, but still.
Please do not quote this entire post to reply.
As starters, this one is freshly new. I tried to get my hands on the previous authors who maintained it, but without much luck. Some month ago there was also a copy of the last one from september 2006 on the google cache. I did a copy somewhere, and of course, I don't know anymore where this somewhere is. I fear I deleted it by accident, among other kheldian related stuff. So I had to start it freshly. Any information, new, old but not here and still valid, or as a corrective, is welcome.
I would also point or remind to those already aware of this that english isn't my native language, so if there's any sentence feeling awkward and you have better proposals, they are welcome.
Beware, the list is long, very long. For those that wasn't here since, this resume will explain why we're in this situation : Kheldians were introduced in issue #3, released in january 2005. some things were nice, many others not much, and a lot better suited on paper than in practice. The more problematic limitations that were greatly dampening the effectiveness of kheldians were fixed or removed. But as kheldians players were only a very small part of the playerbase, so everything else was completly ignored. This is why you'll see multiples particularities that don't make any sense, unless if you knew the game before ED/Global defense nerf.
While we're at it, some reminders about what being a kheldian means :
<ul type="square">[*]Being an epic story-driven AT[*]the ability to switch into a nova (pocket blaster with inherent unsuppressed fly, available at level 6) or a dwarf (pocket tank, available at level 20). Main advantage is the immediate usability of those forms. Main disadvantages are the unability to use any power non-provided by the form itself, and the unavailable amount of slots required to fully use the 3 forms together (human, nova, dwarf)[*]Some unique powers.[*]An inherent signature power giving different buff related to the group teammates, but limited to the human form only.[*]A resistance cap between tanks and scrappers, and a damage level slightly under those of defenders and dominators. [*]generate additionnal opponents in a spawn, either :
- a quantum/void, from minion to boss rank, that will deal energy damage with a chance to stun, and in addition, 3 times the initial damage, unresistable, to a kheldian.
- a cyst crystal, that will generate an unordinate amount of unbound nictus (floating dark purple flurries) related to the number of hero players near it.
- factionless dwarves and novas villains.[/list]
Table of content
[ QUOTE ]
I - Common Issue
I - Cosmic Balance/Dark Sustenance inherent signature power
<ul type="square">[*]Range [*]Delay before activation [*]Viability[/list]I - Invention system
<ul type="square">[*]Sets bonuses and forms[*]Passives powers[/list]I - Voids, Quantums, dwarves, novas and Cyst Crystal
<ul type="square">[*]Increased spawn rate[*]Final word about cyst crystals[*]Kheldian team flag[*]Bug : Irrelevant spawns in a map with different factions[/list]I - Dwarf form
<ul type="square">[*]Hp cap, accolades and dwarf form hp boost [*]High vulnerability to quantum/void damage[*]vulnerability to -recharge debuffs[/list]I - bugs :General out of category
<ul type="square">[*]respec and kheldian form powers[*]Looping sounds[*]form switching bug with queued powers[/list]I - Request : access to the peacebringer sash/belt
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II - Peacebringer issues
II - Teleport powerpool not available
II - Damage output of low/medium damage powers
<ul type="square">[*]Gleaming bolt & Glinting Eye[*]Luminous Detonation[/list]II - Photon seekers
<ul type="square">[*]Unstable AI behavior[*]Unbuffable damage[/list]II - Dawn Strike recovery debuff
II - Light Form
II - bugs : Misc bugs and errors
<ul type="square">[*]Pulsar wrong FX[*]Incandescent Strike wrong FX[/list]II - Request / discussion : changing human melee attacks from knockback to knockdown
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III - Warshade issues
III - All corpse related powers
III - Flight powerpool not available
III - Black dwarf aggro management and survability
III - Damage output of shadow bolt & Ebon Eye
III - Quasar recovery debuff
III - bug : aggro priority
III - bugs : Misc bugs and errors
<ul type="square">[*]Gravity well wrong tooltip[*]Dark extraction pet without icon in the buff list[*]Dark extraction pet retained after player death[/list]__________________________________________________ __________________
IV - Previous people who maintained the kheldians issues
[/ QUOTE ]
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I - Common Issue
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I - Cosmic Balance/Dark Sustenance inherent signature power
(Aka Interspacial Link, or I-Link, the name in the initial beta of the kheldians inherent)
<ul type="square">[*]Range : the power has a limited range, 300f according to city of data, constated much less than this,but not thoroughly verified, like a little more than the leadership toggles (60f range). Anyway, the range proved to be not large enough as when the group split between 2 spawns, many bonuses will disappear because of this. Also, I-Link is completly unusable in pvp, because of the range limitation.
wishlist : remove the range limitation (or increase it to max zone range)
[*]Delay before activation : DS/CB are on a refresh timer (city of data put it at 10 seconds, same for the fitness powerpool powers). Meaning that if you're in a form, and because I-Link is deactivated while morphed, switching back to human won't reactivate immediatly the I-Link bonuses. You may have to wait from 1 up to 10 seconds before they kick in. This behavior is due to the way the game handle passive powers and was confirmed before by _castle_.
As the main mez protection source in human form, this power must be activated at worst 1 second after morphing back to human form.
wishlist : 2 possibilities :
* force an immediate refresh of CB/DS when switching back to human form, even by creating a new instance of this power, non cumulable with itself, with a 10 secs lifetime.
* Allow the power to carry over the form, but giving no bonuses if not in human form. Because while the power is refreshed each 10 sec (renewed would be more accurate in this case), the bonuses are calculated immediatly. Easier to spot when under a low mag mez effect and having a controller jousting with the range limit of I-Link. The dampening mez effect will stop and restart immediatly, as many times as needed without any regards to the 10 second refresh duration.
In the second case, the question about allowing to retain partial bonuses in non human form could be raised.
[*]Viability : A little explanation first : Kheldian I-link was here to balance the archetype versus a team composition that only existed on paper, and rarely occured in game. It's only a deduction, but given the old inherent debuffs we had, the group where a kheldian should stand is along the line of : 1 tanker, 1 defender, 2 controllers, 2 blasters/scrappers, 1 free spot, and the kheldian. Pure speculation, here, but by getting a look to the inherent debuffs kheldians had back at their release, you'll start to easily see the pattern.
As a reminder :
- Tanker, Mastermind, Corruptor or Defender teammate : +dmg (20%) for peacebringer, +res (10%) for warshade
- Scrapper, Brute, Stalker or Blaster teammate : +res (10%) for peacebringer, +dmg (20%) for warshade
- Controller or Dominator teammate : +mez protection (mag -1)
First problem, mez protection : the low mez protection buff per controller/dominator make it useless at best. To be usefull, if you don't have a bubbler or your dedicated empath, you'll need 4 controllers in the team for a reliable mez protection from I-Link to overcome nearly everything. At this point you don't care with mez protection at all. If anything is still able to attack and move, it's because it's a boss that didn't get his 2nd layer of mez effect yet.
Also, the lack of mez protection force the kheldian to only rely to the dwarf form, thus being unable to use his natural adaptability in situation where a lot of attacks has a mez component (arachnos, carnies, maltas, ... and riktis). A single mez attack is enough to remove a lot of possibilities to the kheldian, save sitting in dwarf form.
Second problem, group composition : it wouldn't really be one if the inherent gave pure buffs. It is when the human form is balanced about what should be in the group. Especially in the resistance and mez protection category, while the human form is melee centered (lightly for the warshade, heavily for the peacebringer). With the new cooperation introduced in Issue 10, the composition of the group matters even more, especially with the blurry nature of the villains AT between their roles.
wishlist : This one is expanding an initial proposal from Redlynne to give mez protection according the group size, in addition of the number of controlers/dominators present (Original thread is here ).
The suggestion here is to get half the bonuses from the size of the group, no matter who is in. It'll ensure kheldians still get a part of the bonuses they were expected to receive. Through the other half, it'll still give some incentive to the I-link power. This idea and the numbers are still up to determine, but the initial idea would look like this :
According the supposed group composition a kheldian should have, the final bonuses for a 8 men group size would be (including the mez protection increase) : +25% damage, +12.5% res, -4 mag status protection.
The bonuses specific from each different AT in the group would be : +12.5% damage or +6.25% res or -0.5 up to -1 mag protection.
This will also ensure to have base bonuses from any kheldian brethen in the group, and remove the hindrance a kheldian bring to another one when in the same group.
An optionnal and interesting possibility would be to increase the bonuses each AT in the group provide, but adding diminishing returns after the first. Noneless, the mez protection should remain tied to the group size in addition of the group teammates.
Special note : The general consensus between high level warshade players would be to NOT GAIN any status protection increase to prevent any nerf to the Umbral Aura/Eclipse power. It wasn't changed since release, it should stay as is. For any explanation, try eclipse fully slotted by yourself, it's the sort of power that must be feeled instead of explained.[/list]
I - Invention system
<ul type="square">[*]Sets bonuses and forms : What's the word about this ? At first, they were expected to work in all forms. After, we were said it wouldn't be the case anymore, but to the surprise of all, sets bonuses (at least some easily verifiable) still work whatever the current form is.
wishlist : Just a final word about what it should really be. Players will make sure to report any unusual behavior according to this.
[*]Passives powers : The invention system put a hit on an already slot starved AT. Kheldians can't spare much slots everywhere they want, and with the limitations kheldians have from the dwarf and nova forms, the 2 minutes bonuses of some unique IO might not be enough. if they have to dedicate for one specific role, especially tanking in dwarf form.
wishlist : Allow the umbral aura/absorption, luminous aura/incandescence, and all the fitness/* passive powers to carry over the forms. It'll remove a lot of questions players ask about IOs and kheldians, and will allow kheldians to lighter the differences between a fully slotted primary AT and a slot starved kheldian.[/list]
I - Voids, Quantums, dwarves, novas and Cyst Crystal
<ul type="square">[*]Increased spawn rate : Since Issue 9, it seems there's an increased appearance of any of those opponents anywhere, in mission but also in the city zones. While it was greatly decreased before I9, it become frequent to see 2 cysts in the same mission after I9. In the Statesman TF, you can even get up to 4 cyst crystals in the Thorn Tree mission, with 3 in the final room. And not counting the Q/V around.
From the glance we have since issue 10 is here, the current spawn rate has increased even more.
wishlist : The spawning rate should be fixed at a level at least between Issue 8 and 9, if not at the issue 8 level. And even if it's story driven, any Q/V/C increased activity should be in the patch notes. They are still a non-negligeable threat to any kheldian, and, depending of the role they have to assume, also to their team.
[*]Final word about cyst crystals : We were originally told seeing them outside the special kheldian story arc was a bug, so what's about it ? Especially when they spawn from level 5 up to 50 (yes, 5, confirmed by Cuppajo a long time ago).
wishlist : It seems they are here to stay anyway, but at least there should be safeguards to prevent them spawning at lower levels, and not as many times in the same mission as the random number generator decides it. 3 of them in the final room of the Thorn Tree Mission was pure madness.
[*]Kheldian team flag : When a kheldian join a team, it is flagged until the whole team disbands. This flag will ensure Q/V/C and novas/dwarves will continue to spawn even without any kheldian in the group. This mechanic exists since kheldians do, certainly for story reasons.
But when you join such a group with another hero than your kheldian, you'll read sometimes very unpleasants words against kheldians when a cyst or dwarf/nova spawns. Not to a particular kheldian player, just against kheldian, in general. This trend seems to develop a little more than usual since the statesman TF is here, as sometimes a kheldian can be refused a group, just because he's a kheldian.
No need to argue about the relevance of this behavior, it is already among players in the game, and while still uncommon, you can and will run into it from time to time.
wishlist : Remove the damn flag. When a kheldian leave a group, if there's no kheldian left in, any Q/V/C/N/D must not appear anymore.
[*]Bug : Irrelevant spawns in a map with different factions : This was rare, but with the Issue 10 it's becoming more common : when there are 2 different factions in a map, sometime a soldier of a given faction with a quantum array will spawn in a group of the opposite faction. Quite disturbing, especially when one of the factions is your ally. For example, seeing a void or a rikti quantum infantry standing in front of a vanguard trooper. And they don't even play cards together.
wishlist : None, it's a trap! ... erm, a bug. Or give them a table, a mint card deck and tokens to play poker.[/list]
I - Dwarf form
<ul type="square">[*]Hp cap, accolades and dwarf form hp boost : There's actually a problem for peacebringers in dwarf form, essence boost (peacebringer dull pain) and the hp accolades, the same will rise for warshades in dwarf form, hp accolades and external hp buffs (corruptor cold domination/frostwork).
For reference :
- kheldians modifiers currently allow a 125% hp boost (1070.9 base, capped at 2409.5. The hp cap is the same as scrappers)
- Dwarf form give a 75% hp boost.
- Hp accolades give a 20% hp boost when you have all of them. Since some issues, passives accolades carry over the forms.
So when combining the two, there's only 30% boostable hp left (125-(75+20)).
- Essence boost/dull pain base value is 40% hp boost, around 60% with 3 heal enhances.
Anyway, slotted or not, the base value is already higher than the cap when in dwarf form combined with the hp accolades.
Frostwork base value is 44% hp boost, not counting the bonuses from heal enhances. Seeing the pattern here for warshades in dwarf form ? Not even speaking about frostwork on an already boosted peacebringer that will have absolutly no effect.
wishlist : Raising the kheldian max hp cap to 155% would allow at least white dwarf to gain full benefits from essence boost and the hp accolade, and the black dwarf from an external frostwork and the hp accolades.
While it wouldn't correct the white dwarf issue with frostwork+accolade+essence boost, this would be manageable, if at least some tooltips are updated to reflect this limitation.
Special note : as a reminder, hp boost from invention sets bonuses aren't limited by the AT cap.
[*]High vulnerability to quantum/void damage : such vulnerability at a so ridiculous damage output put the group at very high risks. A purple Q/V boss will easily bring down a dwarf in 2 hits, and most generaly only a single hit as the dwarf player won't be at full health if he's the main tank. Even if the whole group does immediatly take care of it, the kheldian player would still be killed most of the time.
Basically, the presence of any Q/V hinder a kheldian to do his tanker job in dwarf form. Any Q/V boss will forbid him to do it or ensure a faceplanting.
wishlist : at least reducing the quantum nictus energy weakness to (initial damage+1*unresistable initial damage), instead of (initial damage+3*unresistable initial damage) as it is currently.
Best change would be to allow kheldians to adapt and raising a complete resistance in dwarf form, like hamidon did versus phasing powers (that are also in kheldians main powersets).
[*]vulnerability to -recharge debuffs : Dwarves are highly vulnerable to -recharge debuffs. As dwarves are limited to their inherent powers, any use of -recharge debuff will heavily reduce the dwarf ability to efficiently manage aggro.
wishlist : add a -recharge protection. Alternative : see the proposal for a taunt aura in the warshade black dwarf issues.[/list]
I - bugs :General out of category
<ul type="square">[*]respec and kheldian form powers : when using a respec, it's still actually possible (with a crash sometimes) to slot nova and dwarf powers from level 1, even if they aren't available before level 6 and 20. Seems related to the fact those powers are flagged as lv1 inherents (this might raise a problem with neutral novas and dwarves in spawns at levels lower than the powers)
[*]Looping sounds : There are still a lot of faintly looping sound attached to many kheldian toggles. Nova forms, dwarf forms, energy flight, light form, ... Also, please note a looping sound from a power of one of the 2 kheldians might not be present on the other kheldian similar power. Some of them removed since issue 10. Issue maybe dropable after additionnal check, as theses changes aren't listed in the patch notes
[*]form switching bug with queued powers : when queueing the nova or dwarf form toggle while a long duration power still animate and smashing a key relative to one of this form powers (still greyed at this point), it can lead sometimes to the form toggle being unqueued and not activated. Consequent lag without smashing a power button will have the same effect by itself.[/list]
I - Request : access to the peacebringer sash/belt : This was asked for a long time, but as a freebie, many of us would like to be able to use the kheldian sash/belt as part of a costume. As an incentive, maybe tying it to the Moonfire tf as a reward for completing it ?
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II - Peacebringer issues
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II - Teleport powerpool not available : the teleport and the flight powerpool aren't available to kheldians. While the access prevention to the flight pool is understandable for a peacebringer, it isn't the case for the teleport pool.
wishlist : allow access to the teleport powerpool for peacebringer. If power restriction is possible in a powerpool, peacebringer could use flight/air superiority
II - Damage output of low/medium damage powers :
<ul type="square">[*]Gleaming bolt & Glinting Eye: after the initials levels, the damage output of those 2 powers from the luminous blast powerset become at best completly useless, even as a finisher attack when overbuffed. One of those 2 is taken because the selection is mandatory, but if peacebringers were allowed to skip them, they would completly do so.
wishlist : a re-evaluation of the damage of those 2 powers would be nice. Another possiblity suggested before would be to replace one of the 2 by a melee moderate damage attack (the ss/knockout blow animation would fit perfectly), allowing to complete the radiant/incandescent strike chain.
[*]Luminous Detonation : the low damage output combined to the high knockback secondary effect make this power from the luminous blast powerset completly undesirable. While proton scatter is more manageable as a cone, the target aoe of luminous detonation is a real hindrance.
wishlist : Damage output increase, maybe ? Or a knockdown instead of the knockback ? Any idea is welcome.[/list]
II - Photon seekers
<ul type="square">[*]Unstable AI behavior : nothing new here, the seekers are still very erratic from time and time and proved problematic to fix. Usual deviant behavior are : hovering around at very low speed and ignoring any target around, homing to a target far of the closest one and the peacebringer, refusing to attack anything (at least this occurs rarely and only on one of the 3 seekers)
wishlist : the following is a suggestion based on the point-blank use peacebringer players have since release : Seekers should attack when generated the current target the player have selected. If nothing is selected, they enter a wait and scan process. Anything from point blank to a 25/35f max range will be attacked, prioritizing the target rank if there are multiples choices. Each seeker could choice a different target.
If the peacebringer owner is moving, seekers should stay the closest possible to a 7f max range. This will ensure the seekers don't stay behind hovering aimlessly at very low speed.
If the peacebringer owner is moving (a lot, just not some minor placement movement), the first priority is to stay close to the owner. Otherwise, the seekers are free to blow up anything they are allowed to.
[*]Unbuffable damage : actually, the photon seekers ignore any active damage buff their peacebringer owner will have. Only the enhances in the photon seeker power are considerated.
wishlist : Depends. If the AI is changed to something much more reliable, given their combinated damage, this might not be an issue. If the AI is still as it is currently, either any damage buff on their owner should affect them, or their damage should be unresistable. Of course, any change of this buffable/unbuffable state should be reflected in the photon seeker power description.[/list]
II - Dawn Strike recovery debuff : luminous blast/dawn strike debuff when used is still on the -100% endurance recovery, instead of the -1000% that all blasters and defender got on their tier 9 nuke power in issue 5.
wishlist : Intentional ? It should be leaved as is until an answer is available.
II - Light Form : luminous aura/light form allow you to completly ignore any players and npc collision restriction (you can stand IN the body of an opponent). It also ignore any rooting delay related to any power activation and use. Some time before, the power speed/whirlwind allowed the same behavior until it was changed.
wishlist : Intentional ? It should be leaved as is until an answer is available.
II - bugs : Misc bugs and errors
<ul type="square">[*]Pulsar wrong FX : luminous blast/pulsar is a pbaoe disorient, but give the hold animation fx to the targets head when they are disoriented.[*]Incandescent Strike wrong FX : luminous blast/incandescent strike is a melee target hold, but give the disorient animation fx to the target head when it's held.[/list]
II - Request / discussion : changing human melee attacks from knockback to knockdown : Nothing new here, as it's something that tanker and scrapper asked for a lot. Fact is, knockback is not welcomed among any melee AT. Especially when it comes to aoe/pbaoe attacks. As the peacebringer melee attack from human form are on heavy knockback, maybe they should be changed to knockdown/knockup only, depending of the attack itself. This would cover : radiant strike and solar flare. Incandescent strike is already a knockdown. What about proton scatter and luminous detonation for human only players ?
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III - Warshade issues
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III - All corpse related powers : those powers are very limited with the short duration of defeated corpse. It's even more problematic as when a power will play an animation on a targeted corpse, if the corpse disappear while the animation is still playing, the power won't have any effect. Worse, the power will start to recharge, as considered successfully used. Same for the endurance cost already consumed.
The related powers are : umbral blast/unchain essence, umbra blast/dark extraction, and umbra aura/stygian circle.
wishlist : multiples possibilities :
* raising the corpses duraction to 7 mores seconds at least, 12 if possible. Given the fast paced action of coh, it should be enough as long as any warshade player pays a little attention to use the freshest corpse available.
* changing the powers to ignore all limitation related to disappearing corpses. Also, corpses should be considerated when the power is activated, and not when the power animation is finished as it is currently.
known issue : Lt and upper rank riktis since issue 10 aren't selectable and prevent warshade player to get any benefits from their corpse.
III - Flight powerpool not available : the teleport and the flight powerpool aren't available to kheldians. While the access prevention to the teleport pool is understandable for a warshade, it isn't the case for the flight pool.
wishlist : allow access to the flight powerpool for warshades.
III - Black dwarf aggro management and survability : the two dwarves suffer from a lack of aggro management tools. They have a provoke like power : to hit check (at least with a 50% accuracy bonus) and 5 target max, single target punchvoke in each attack (not in the the black dwarf mire), and nothing else.
White dwarf can easily counter this throught the white dwarf flare, a knockdown pbaoe attack. With a little delay between each attack, it can be used like an aura. But the black dwarf has nothing. Even if the mire could taunt, that isn't actually the case, his recharge time would prevent any frequent use.
And unlike brutes and tankers, you can't use additionnal powers from the power pools.
wishlist : adding a taunt aura to the dwaves would lighten this lack of possibilities. Passive pbaoe taunt aura, inclued in the form toggle itself, no damage, non enhanceable speed/recharge debuff for the black dwarf, defense debuff for the white dwarf, debuffs values around 15%. The white dwarf would gain an additionnal bonus to ensure his flare hit and knockdown all foe in melee range, the black dwarf would gain a pbaoe melee taunt aura, and more survivability he currently lacks when compared to the white dwarf.
III - Damage output of shadow bolt & Ebon Eye : after the initials levels, the damage output of those 2 powers from the umbral blast powerset become at best completly useless, even as a finisher attack when overbuffed. One of those 2 is taken because the selection is mandatory, but if warshades were allowed to skip them, they would completly do so.
wishlist : a re-evaluation of the damage of those 2 powers would be nice.
III - Quasar recovery debuff : umbral blast/quasar debuff when used is still on the -100% endurance recovery, instead of the -1000% that all blasters and defender got on their tier 9 nuke power in issue 5.
wishlist : Intentional ? It should be leaved as is until an answer is available.
III - bug :aggro priority : a strange behavior easier spottable at low level since kheldian release : basically, after the group has pulled the villains spawn, just by standing around without attacking, you can get the aggro of the whole spawn, despite any effort of the tank, if there's one in the group. It's not one or two opponents, it's the complete spawn.
In fact, at a time when kheldian where in beta test on the training room, this behavior was common with them. Just by only standing in sight but out of usual aggro range you could even pull a complete spawn. A little later, still in the beta, a patch was applied, stating the kheldian menace generation was lowered. While the change was visible on peacebringers, it seems it was never applied on warshades.
wishlist : erm .. fix it ? It's not a trap, this time (or maybe it is). Another hint about this, if there's a menace generation tied to each form, it may be possible the one attached to the dark nova form is inverted with the black dwarf form..
III - bugs :Misc bugs and errors
<ul type="square">[*]Gravity well wrong tooltip : warshade umbral blast/gravity well still indicate in his tooltip "foe immobilize" since kheldians release, while it should be "foe hold" instead. [*]Dark extraction pet without icon in the buff list : each extracted essence pet from the umbral blast/dark extraction power doesn't generate a small icon in the status list under the hp/stamina/xp bar.[*]Dark extraction pet retained after player death : if the player die, any extracted essences pet will remain until defeated.[/list]
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IV - Previous people who maintained the kheldians issues
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<ul type="square">[*]TheDeadEyes [*] ? (hide in a bunker ... sorry, I have a bad memory when it comes to names)[/list]