i'm new to the whole tanker/brute thing... why no brimstone, crystal or minerals armors?
Political correctness is a stench in the nose of God. Yes, your God(s) also.
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i'm new to the whole tanker/brute thing... why no brimstone, crystal or minerals armors?
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Well, the Stone Armors are pretty messed.
Some provide Defense, some provide Resists, it's a big mess.
Granite Armor gives resist and defense buffs for EVERY type of damage, and can not be toggle dropped. You pretty much turn in to two tanks combined with that on.
I refuse to play Stone Armor, however, because with Granite Armor you become VERY slow, your damage goes down, your accuracy goes down, and your recharge goes down. It's only good for long fights, which makes it great for Tanks and Brutes. Just have to wait until lvl 38. Which sucks. A lot.
In PvP, you need ALOT of fire power to take down a Stone tank with Granite Armor on. ALOT.
There are 3 reasons for not taking the other armors.
1st and foremost is that you don't need the other armors. Even though they help a little, you'll do fine without them pre-granite, and they can't even help at all post-granite. So they are basically just wasted power choices. Tank/brute builds tend to be particularly sensitive to wasted power choices (they tend to be 'tight' builds), and DM/Stone is no exception.
2ndly, the armors are very specific to certain types of attacks, which generally is not helpful to a tank/brute that is attacking everything around him, and not just specific foes. Specific armors are immensely helpful, however, for going up against an AV or GM foe with a specific type of attack, but DM/Stone can generally hold the agro of nearly all of these AV's or GM's without specific armors, just by using a few more insp or having some good heals on the team.
3rd, the armors will cost end. With most brute/tank builds, you are managing your hit points and endurance like power levels. You are watching one drop and thinking about how low you can let it go before you will have one power or another recharged and available to activate to kick it back up. With this build, you have a lot of powers that help you heal, such as health(always on), rooted(toggle), siphon life(quick recharge), earthen embrace(very long recharge), and you only have dark consumption (slow recharge) and stamina (always on) to help you with your endurance level.
So you will usually have less health problems than end problems. Adding armors that you don't need for heath, that cost you end, is going to hurt you more than help you, because if you let your end go to zero in combat, your shields will drop and you will probably need a wakie 
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Alternatively, those brimstone, crystal and psionic armors sure do look cool.
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i'm new to the whole tanker/brute thing... why no brimstone, crystal or minerals armors?
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Well, the Stone Armors are pretty messed.
Some provide Defense, some provide Resists, it's a big mess.
Granite Armor gives resist and defense buffs for EVERY type of damage, and can not be toggle dropped. You pretty much turn in to two tanks combined with that on.
I refuse to play Stone Armor, however, because with Granite Armor you become VERY slow, your damage goes down, your accuracy goes down, and your recharge goes down. It's only good for long fights, which makes it great for Tanks and Brutes. Just have to wait until lvl 38. Which sucks. A lot.
In PvP, you need ALOT of fire power to take down a Stone tank with Granite Armor on. ALOT.
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It's true, you are slow to the point of being motionless, by running Granite + Rooted, and your recharge drops a lot. However, both of these items are overcomable. You absolutely must have teleport with this build, because you will need it to move even a few yards. Or, if you have a teammate with sb (and you should reserve your entire friends list for toons with sb), then you can move normally, you just can't jump at all. The recharge reduction is ovecome by having hasten and 8 attack powers, including mud pots (always on), and shadow maul (fast recharge), which is the main attack power of the set. I haven't had any problems with my attack power recharge speed with DM/Stone, but it is critical to get hasten before Granite, and in fact, swapping it for a different power earlier in the build that I mentioned would probably be a good idea.
I haven't noticed any problems with damage or accuracy with granite on. It seems the same. In fact, I would say my DM/Stone can put down minions almost as fast as my Fire/Fire tank did pre-I5, and can take the lieuts and bosses in the herds out much, much faster, especially with fury maxing out fast while herding. Overall, it's very similar to what the old fire ATs could do, just not as squishy. I do wish there wasn't an agro cap that limits herding to only 3 large groups.
In PVP, my DM/Stone has never been defeated. Assasin strike is the only thing that can even tickle a little. I believe that it would take not only a full team, but the right mix with the right strategy to take my DM/Stone brute out. Possibly if a AT w./kin slows me, 3 tank/brute ATs brawl-fest me, and 3 or 4 ATs w./ranged attacks hang back and wait or the right moment to snipe me, they might have a chance, if they got it just right. Or the brawls w./a stalker timing it right to strike when I'm detoggled. The timing would have to perfect to the point of requiring a great deal of luck for that, though.
I would like to add the following numbers for recharge speeds measured with this build (in seconds):
Power: Rock ; Rock+Hasten ; Granite ; Granite+Hasten
Soul Drain: 60 ; 39 ; 45 ; 52
Dark Consumption:86 ; 58 ; 230 ; 76
Shadow Maul: 5 ; 3 ; 9 ; 5
Midnight Grasp: 12 ; 7 ; 44 ; 6
Siphon Life: 10 ; 7 ; 21 ; 7
Touch of Fear: 7 ; 4 ; 20 ; 6
Smite: 6 ; 3 ; 16 ; 4
Brawl: 2 ; 1 ; 5 ; 2
Note:Something seems wrong with Soul Drain (45s) with Granite, no hasten, but I measured it twice.
One thing I'd like to point out is that while Granite Armor does reduce recharge, damage, and movement speed (not to mention no jumping whatsoever), it does not reduce accuracy. Also, it doesn't protect against Psionic attacks.
I'd also like to comment on Mineral armor. In CoH, I wouldn't dream of playing a 40+ stoner without it, but I haven't seen which villain groups use psionic attacks. For my own DM/Stone build, i'm taking a wait and see approach.
if I recall correctly, attacks that deal multiple types of damage can be defended by powers that defend against one type. So if someone tries to hit you with a fire sword attack, which does Fire, and say, Lethal, Rock Armor has a chance to stop it from hitting at all since it defends against Lethal. The reason Mineral Armor was advantagious is that there are few psionic attacks that I know of which have multiple damage types. I might be wrong about this, or it may have changed, or the aspartame worms in my brain could have gotten to me.
@Labattadm
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
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One thing I'd like to point out is that while Granite Armor does reduce recharge, damage, and movement speed (not to mention no jumping whatsoever), it does not reduce accuracy. Also, it doesn't protect against Psionic attacks.
I'd also like to comment on Mineral armor. In CoH, I wouldn't dream of playing a 40+ stoner without it, but I haven't seen which villain groups use psionic attacks. For my own DM/Stone build, i'm taking a wait and see approach.
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You can run minerals while in granite, correct? And how much defense does minerals offer against psi damage, percent wise?
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You can run minerals while in granite, correct? And how much defense does minerals offer against psi damage, percent wise?
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Incorrect. Only things you can run while in Granite from the Stone Armor set is Stone Skin (Passive), Mud Pots and Rooted. I am unsure of the percentage. It's a lifesaver when you face guys who have psi attacks such as some Arachnos, Rularuu and Carnies, to name a few.
Hero build says minerals is 12.75% def to psi for Brutes, 17% for Tanks (although it feels like it's higher then that).
I agree with the usefulness of brimstone and crystal, and pretty much minerals, with one exception. I can be dropped like, well, a ton of bricks by an AV whos main attack is psi in granite, but minerals allows me to herd them without much worry. My tank picked up Minerals very late, and only to help with Mother Mayhem and other Psi special AV/GM's, which drop most teams fast.
In CoV, I would probably follow this build and not get Minerals, just because I can't think of a specific boss that gave me trouble that was Psi related. YMMV
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Granite Armor gives resist and defense buffs for EVERY type of damage, and can not be toggle dropped.
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That is false, a /poison MM with Nox Gas with enough applications in melee range will drop both...BOTH rooted and granite just a lil FYI
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Granite Armor gives resist and defense buffs for EVERY type of damage, and can not be toggle dropped.
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That is false, a /poison MM with Nox Gas with enough applications in melee range will drop both...BOTH rooted and granite just a lil FYI
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While granite armor provides some status protection, I have had malta hold or stun me through it and many things knock me back while in it. It cannot however be toggle dropped by brawl etc in PvP.
The only thing that has taken my stone tank out one on one PvP is a rad/psi defender who is very well equipped to do so, and if we were using insps I could easily have lasted 10 mins for a draw. The issue PVP is that you're unlikely to kill anybody as they can just run/fly away from you and you have no mez prot that allows you to move quickly or get off the ground.
Also as said by other posters granite provides no protection against psionics. You have to wait till 38 for this uber protection as a brute, 32 as a tank. The -acc on granite was removed ages ago.
My brute has a pretty similar build to the one published here, but is more solo PvE focused so has gone AS/fly rather than taking TP and doesn't have taunt. My tank finds he needs every attack he can lay his hands on due to the -rchg in granite, hence that choice also. If you're going to PvP you need to have TP foe to have a chance of killing anything.
Mr Minotaur 50 stone/axe tank Freedom
Dread minotaur 34 DM/stone brute Protector
and many others including 8 other 50s
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
DM/Stone -
. But, hey, it's all good.
Two Brute techniques and how these powers accomplish them:
Herding - This is the build for you if you were accomplished at corner-stacking with your pre-I5 AoE tank, and would like to get back a smidgeon of the glory you loved with your AoE tank. In the current issue, it's all about corner herding and shadow mauling with hasten and your granite armor and rooted on. You compensate somewhat for the max target cap by using a high recharge multiple target power, shadow maul, which you can boost to recharge almost as fast as brawl. You need to be accomplished at corner-stacking mobs because shadow maul is limited to a fairly wide cone area. You'll need teleport to move, or a speed boost from a teammate to move with granite armor & rooted running. Three slotting swift helps a little, and anything that helps a little becomes essential when you're moving this slow. Get taunt so that you don't have to run to every mob you're herding. When it comes to taking the herd down, a high recharge speed multiple target atteck is necessary in order to optimize your herd slaughtering experience in the post I5 world. That's where shadow maul comes in. Forget any other AT for taking down a reasonable herd, unless you'd like to herd -2s with your cor(which actually can be kind of fun). Granite will give you the ability to herd most +1 and +2 mobs. If your team can boost it with a shield and manuevers you're usually handling agro from +3 and even +4 or higher mobs comfortably. Soul drain and dark consumption are short-range multiple target attacks (I won't say AoE post-I5), that each come with their own buffs/debuffs, that are not essential, but are very nice and useful touches to the build.
PVP - The strategy works like this: TP Foe your enemy into your mud pots which will slow him. Preferably you do this when he doesn't know where you are. That way, although his toon may not be confused, technically, he likely will be, sitting behind his computer trying to figure out where his toon is, and not able to move quickly. Keep him that way, try brawl 1st to detoggle him in case he's running anything, then try terrifying him with touch of fear or immobilizing him with Midnight Grasp, usually one will work. Then just do all the damage you can and hope you win. Leave your granite armor and rooted on, just in case he survives somehow. Don't forget to throw in a few brawls here and there. Important note: running both granite and rooted is advised here, because if you are detoggled, usually only one will turn off at a time, and it will almost always be rooted, so you keep your granite armor and survive. Some of the damage builds out there will take you out nearly instantly if they can get your shield off. It's a good thing that rock armor is always recharged and ready to go while you wait for granite to recharge. Also, having the inherent damage resistance of stone skin helps in detoggle situations. Unfortunately, nothing in this build helps keep you from being terrorized. Fortunately, being terrorized doesn't detoggle you.
General Notes:
You do need stamina with this build, because it is a build designed to work with the max target cap. Therefor it uses a lot of recharge reductions, and therefor it uses end much faster. It always helps to have health with a melee toon, and when running rooted, earthen embrace, health, and attacking with siphon life, the health recovery rate is considerable. I have read that it is necessary to have tough and weave in order to max out the defense and damage resistance of a Stone armor Brute, but honestly, I just haven't felt any need to improve these areas, so I wouldn't recommend giving up any of the other powers for the fighting set.
Here's my DM/Stone build:
I had to build my DM/Stone without a guide. Now that I have done it & have a lvl40 DM/Stone I like, and I still can't find a build guide for DM/Stone, I will give some guidance. So here's a DM/Stone guide (I used Sherkhan's CoH/CoV Character Builder to plan it):
01) --> Smite==> Dmg(1) Dmg(7) Dmg(7)
01) --> Rock Armor==> DefBuf(1) DefBuf(3) DefBuf(27)
02) --> Stone Skin==> DmgRes(2) DmgRes(3) DmgRes(27)
04) --> Shadow Maul==> Dmg(4) Dmg(5) Dmg(5) Acc(13) Acc(13) Rechg(15)
06) --> Teleport Foe==> Acc(6)
08) --> Siphon Life==> Heal(8) Heal(9) Acc(9) Rechg(15) Heal(19) Acc(19)
10) --> Mud Pots==> Dmg(10) Dmg(11) Slow(11) Dmg(37)
12) --> Taunt==> Taunt(12)
14) --> Teleport==> Range(14)
16) --> Rooted==> Heal(16) Heal(17) Heal(17)
18) --> Dark Consumption==> Dmg(18) Rechg(31) Rechg(31) Rechg(34)
20) --> Swift==> Run(20) Run(21) Run(21)
22) --> Health==> Heal(22) Heal(23) Heal(23)
24) --> Stamina==> EndRec(24) EndRec(25) EndRec(25)
26) --> Soul Drain==> Dmg(26) Rechg(33) Rechg(34) Rechg(37) Dmg(37)
28) --> Earth's Embrace==> Heal(28) Heal(29) Rechg(29) Rechg(40)
30) --> Hasten==> Rechg(30) Rechg(31) Rechg(34)
32) --> Midnight Grasp==> Acc(32) Acc(33) Acc(33) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36)
35) --> Touch of Fear==> Acc(35)
38) --> Granite Armor==> DefBuf(38) DefBuf(39) DmgRes(39) DmgRes(39) DefBuf(40) DmgRes(40)
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01) --> Sprint==> Jump(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Fury==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> IntRdx(2)
Most of what I have said so far refers to granite a lot. This build is also very fun pre-granite. Just use rock armor where you would have used granite. With stone you can only herd same to +1 mobs without buffs, but at the same time you can move much faster, and your recharge speed is faster, with rock armor than granite.
Also, need I say, when I see a Stone Armor AT with brimstone, crystal or minerals armors, I know he's a newb. I will admit, though, I tried them once myself, but only on test. Those aren't worth wasting your time with, even on test. You might as well get fly with this build (my 1st toon ever , a long time ago, was a Stone/Fire tank, and, sadly, I did get fly as my 1st travel power with this AT <<solemnly states with head bowed>>