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Exactly nothing. But then again, it doesn't really need to have to do with anything. Any time Blasters want positive improvements to the AT, it sets off waves of "They're calling for our AT to be nerfed!" and other bits of paranoia from non-Blasters.
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Well, also, Statesman said that they're rebalancing scrappers and tankers, and I suspect that's what prompted the statement.
That's beside the point, though - you do have a handful of vocal posters here in the blaster forum who seem to think that nerfing the Hell out of scrappers will make blasters all better (not a majority, but a vocal minority). It's frustrating to read past and difficult to ignore.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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If you want to play like that, pick devices and be done with it. However, other blaster types should be able to play like an actual superhero, blazing down from the sky and destroying all. The Human Torch is a non-stealthed, non-superspeeding blaster, and he's not gimp. Cyclops, while he usually fights in a team, doesn't use stealth or invisibility either.
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It does need to be pointed out that the Human Torch's fiery aura melts incoming bullets, and people tend not to punch him because OH MY GOD IT BURNS.
But these are hard to emulate for blasters currently. 
I think "zero defense" was not the best decision.
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Well, if you assumed HT was lvl 50, and slotted BA heavily, and had Fire Shield, I could see him ignoring "bullets" (something few seem to have at high level, and one of the worse damages there), and foes being reluctant to approch because of BA's wrath. Of course, the F4 don't fight Rikti or Malta.
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Well, if you assumed HT was lvl 50, and slotted BA heavily, and had Fire Shield, I could see him ignoring "bullets" (something few seem to have at high level, and one of the worse damages there), and foes being reluctant to approch because of BA's wrath. Of course, the F4 don't fight Rikti or Malta.
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Wow, you're talking about a seriously concept character there with that blazing aura. 
I wonder if BA and its ilk would work better if they had a greater chance to cause villains to flee the damage and stay at range. Then again, I realize the best answer is, "what if there were a power in that slot that was cool."
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Honestly it doesn't matter what comic hero you throw up for blasters.
Johnny the Homicidal Maniac puts the smack down on all of them so of course scrappers should have higher damage caps.
Sorry, I just sometimes fail to see how we can really translate comics to game balance.
Er... and who would that be exactly?
This from an earlier poster...
"Hmm...what if Sparky became a targetable pet for electric blasters? That would create 50% damage mitigation and might help them....what about pets for the other sets? Wouldn't be infringing on trollers, because we could only have one out at a time, but would be nice to help survive a lil better. "
Agree that would be kool to see say an efreet for fire blaster but make it so even with perma haste on ly one out at a time and have it genorate aggro and be a guard.
Also I really feel as has been suggested before that if you did the above and added one res power at say unyielding strength (cap 75%) to each blaster secondary you'd have a lot more happy blasters..
They get #1
Damage and agg mitigration in the pet
and
#2 Damage resistance to any one type of damage they choose at a decent level.
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Honestly it doesn't matter what comic hero you throw up for blasters.
Johnny the Homicidal Maniac puts the smack down on all of them so of course scrappers should have higher damage caps.
Sorry, I just sometimes fail to see how we can really translate comics to game balance.
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haha go back to livejournal gothy mcgotherson! j/k
the comics are dementedly funny, but certainly not the superhero genre.
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Er... and who would that be exactly?
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Orochi and Filburt come immediately to mind. That's not complete list, just the two names that I can recall (Orochi because it's very recent, Filburt because that's apparently his favorite thing in these threads).
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
You know, I can live with the vulnerabilities of my blaster; he's SUPPOSED to have vulnerabilities. The problem I faced was feeling completely useless in teams--even duos.
The question that rolls around in everyone's head: Why team a blaster when I can team a scrapper? Now I'm a blaster through and through, but even I would opt for the scrapper. Why? Well, they do almost as much dmg--I mean, scrappers generally do less dmg than blasters but, let's be realistic, what's the difference between 250 points of dmg and 260?--and they can take a beating. All it takes to kill a blaster is just two baddies turning on him simultaneously. Scrappers don't need a babysitter.
I've said this before and I loathe to repeat it: Blasters are powered correctly; there are other AT's in the game that do egregious things--taking out big groups of +4's and +5's--and blasters have a tendency to get jealous. I have seen--and played--other AT's that absolutely chew up +4's and +5's with NO THREAT to themselves. That's right: NO THREAT WHATSOEVER. Anything white - red offers absolutely no challenge. If that's the case, that the color system is completely arbitrary and only purples put up a challenge, then these particular AT's are overpowered. How can anyone dispute that?
I play an AT-that-shall-remain-nameless that is lvling THREE TIMES AS FAST as my blaster did. I am dying on purpose so I don't outlevel my friends. Of course my mission difficulty is set for invinsible, but even then the missions are so easy they are almost pedestrian.
I think this issue has progressed too far to fix. There are at least 3 or 4 different builds that are nigh-impossible to kill. The only reason blasters are complaining, IMO, is because we have AT envy.
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I think "zero defense" was not the best decision.
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That might be the best summation of "The Blaster Problem."
For me, it's an ironically fortunate thing that many blaster secondary sets are melee-centric. This way I can ignore most of my secondary powers and use the slots instead for defensively-oriented pool powers.
That trend speaks poorly of the secondary sets, and further explains why Devices is so popular since it breaks formula by being useful.
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Honestly it doesn't matter what comic hero you throw up for blasters.
Johnny the Homicidal Maniac puts the smack down on all of them so of course scrappers should have higher damage caps.
Sorry, I just sometimes fail to see how we can really translate comics to game balance.
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Since this is the "damage" thread. I have a quesion for you Concern. Has anyone done any datamining to show who does more damage on average in a team from lvls 1-50? Is it blasters or scrappers? Why do I get the feeling it's blasters?
It's a valid argument to say, "We can't attack without dieing." To the extent that this is truth and not exaggeration, it should be looked into.
It's another thing to whine about another AT having a higher damage cap with absolutely zero proof on how that affects in-game results. It's like whining that some Winnebago has a speed-o-meter that goes to 300 MPH and yoru Ferrari only goes 210 MPH. So friggin what? How often do you see scrappers outdamaging blasters in team situation? That is the question I don't see answered.
The bottom line is what is the role of blasters and whether they can perform that role. Fixating on some ridiculous comparative cap argument seems juvenile and petty unless you prove it translates to an realized difference.
And let me add, the vast majority of the game is not played at lvl 50. Issues that occur at lvl 45+ seem ridiculous to me when you've played through 95% of the content. So any meaningful analysis had better focus on the lvl ranges where the majority of people play their toons.
And let me offer you some reality Concern. From lvls 1-16..maybe even as high as 20...scrappers are pretty mediocre. Seems that blasters are far better at soloing. In fact, controllers seem to solo better than scrappers from lvls 1-10. But you dont' see scrappers pissing and moaning about it do you? We recognize that there is a sweet spot for scrappers and we accept it. Blasters it seems, have a different sweet spot, yet, judging by your posts, that is totally unacceptable that there should be any shift in power. That early lvl dominance should last the entire game.
Don't get me wrong. If blasters are not fun to play past certain lvls, they should figure out why that is. But it if the reason is based on coveting someone else's damage cap, irrespective of in-game results....let's hope they make the right call.
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Honestly it doesn't matter what comic hero you throw up for blasters.
Johnny the Homicidal Maniac puts the smack down on all of them so of course scrappers should have higher damage caps.
Sorry, I just sometimes fail to see how we can really translate comics to game balance.
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Since this is the "damage" thread. I have a quesion for you Concern. Has anyone done any datamining to show who does more damage on average in a team from lvls 1-50? Is it blasters or scrappers? Why do I get the feeling it's blasters?
It's a valid argument to say, "We can't attack without dieing." To the extent that this is truth and not exaggeration, it should be looked into.
It's another thing to whine about another AT having a higher damage cap with absolutely zero proof on how that affects in-game results. It's like whining that some Winnebago has a speed-o-meter that goes to 300 MPH and yoru Ferrari only goes 210 MPH. So friggin what? How often do you see scrappers outdamaging blasters in team situation? That is the question I don't see answered.
The bottom line is what is the role of blasters and whether they can perform that role. Fixating on some ridiculous comparative cap argument seems juvenile and petty unless you prove it translates to an realized difference.
And let me add, the vast majority of the game is not played at lvl 50. Issues that occur at lvl 45+ seem ridiculous to me when you've played through 95% of the content. So any meaningful analysis had better focus on the lvl ranges where the majority of people play their toons.
And let me offer you some reality Concern. From lvls 1-16..maybe even as high as 20...scrappers are pretty mediocre. Seems that blasters are far better at soloing. In fact, controllers seem to solo better than scrappers from lvls 1-10. But you dont' see scrappers pissing and moaning about it do you? We recognize that there is a sweet spot for scrappers and we accept it. Blasters it seems, have a different sweet spot, yet, judging by your posts, that is totally unacceptable that there should be any shift in power. That early lvl dominance should last the entire game.
Don't get me wrong. If blasters are not fun to play past certain lvls, they should figure out why that is. But it if the reason is based on coveting someone else's damage cap, irrespective of in-game results....let's hope they make the right call.
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Well, as said in another thread, look at the Punisher listing for your server, and use the Find team search to see what AT they are. 9 times out of ten they are tankers or controllers. The rest are often scrappers. At least, they are more often scrappers than blasters.
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Well, as said in another thread, look at the Punisher listing for your server, and use the Find team search to see what AT they are. 9 times out of ten they are tankers or controllers. The rest are often scrappers. At least, they are more often scrappers than blasters.
[/ QUOTE ] Unfortuantely, that doesn't answer the question. That stats are not about who does more on a team. Those are about damage dealers, irrespective of teams, IIRC. As far as pure damage output, it seems pretty obvious anyone who can herd and then lay down fire patch is going dominate. Honestly, unless those stats are taking into account those dynamics, using them as justification is not a straw man..it's a rice paper man.
Jeese man kindly point out the line in my response where I insulted you mother and Ill go edit it out.
Ill try to keep my responses civil even if you dont.
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You do realize that the current range on melee attacks is 10' right? That is basically just doubling the range. No lessening of the power needed. Why, Because we are supposed to be about range and putting it up to 20' is just a bone thrown in that direction.
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Doubling the range of an attack without any adjustment in the damage seems reasonable to you?
Having Mobile status resit seemed reasonable to Inv too but they had to give up -5 def to get it.
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Greater than the Diameter of Footstomp. The range of Footstomp is PbAoE. The reason behind this is if I want to hit a guy behind the tank and it gets knocked back by Foot Stomp I want to be able to shoot him from range without having to possibly go through melee opponents to get that guy. I have no doubt that AoEs from Malta grenades will be going off around the tank and I don't want to be near him. That is why I asked for that range specifically.
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Again show me in my post where I said this was a stupid request, I seem to remember thinking it sounded like a good idea. In any case being a scrapper I wouldnt want to hazard a guess at how often I had to chase down a mob because some blaster knocked them across the room, I believe the most typical response to this issue is, tough. Why should I use lesser attacks just for you? Why should the tanker adjust his attacks for you?
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I got news for you. The cap is not helping you, unless you play with Sould Drain or you have a kinetics defender on tap. Why exactly do you think you need the potential to do more damage than blasters? Your boss killing role is made evident by your criticals. The reason you have your cap is because Statesman said that you had more risk. Please, come back and tell me that you have more risk than a blaster in melee or ranged. You do lethal damage? So does AR. You do smashing damage? So does energy. You are not alone in having damage types that are resisted.
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I did say most, and also Scrappers tend to deal solely smashing or lethal where most Blasters deal at least mixed damage types. AR is obviously the exception, but it also has flame thrower and ignite too. Out of curiosity, how would you then benefit from this cap then without someone to buff you? Why should it matter if as you say it is so useless? Do you want to have an additional 100% of damage that you cant achieve without help too?
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Yes, you are indeed wrong. Take a look at AR animation times or for that matter Fire and Energy animations. The only set that has fast animations is Ice. Even then you have wonderfull rain animations that root you. Not to mention the snipe animations that root.
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Wow I guess putting in my post that I was absolutely positive that without a doubt I was correct was a dumb move, oh wait I didnt say that, but either way I stand corrected.
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The real issue with nukes is that they are not usefull in every combat. I mean every combat. Blasters have enough problems and the last thing they need is a situational damage power that is good for clearing minions. Jeez like our AoE we have in our primary is not already good for that. Why in the world would we need these solo unless we wanted to go nuke a hazard zone mob of minions. Only when we were doing that every one got pissed. So why not simply make them a usefull high damage attack that is a small AoE but does at least Head splitter damage with the same endurance cost and recharge so that we can do some real damage to bosses with our attack chain. Having a fast animation would be a requirement of course. We are not friggin Sayans running around with Kamaya maya blasts.
Not to mention that having another boss killer attack would be really usefull in PvP.
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Maybe I misunderstood you in that respect, if you are willing to loose a fair amount of damage or change them to cones then I could see this becoming more of a possibility.
However, if you think that just because you wouldnt run from mob group to mob group to do it, that no one else would be inclined to do so then you are in all likely hood wrong. The blasters I team with regularly have their big-bang slotted so that it is up within a few seconds of engaging the next set of mobs, and if not then defiantly by the next set, and Ive never noticed it lacking in damage to achieve this, and in a large group of mobs of all ranks the only ones standing afterwards tend to be bosses and maybe a Lt if it missed.
The devs have made it pretty clear that if you want something boosted that you are going to have to loose something.
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This fact is glaringly obvious. I wish I could say go make a level 40 blaster and take it for a spin but you can't do that. It is obvious that playing on the scrapper side you really don't know what it takes to play a blaster. Having seen friends use nukes is not the same as useing them and dealing with them.
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Ouch, well I guess that says it all, I am a complete moron and totally unable to extrapolate based on either experience or conversations with blasters what it is like to be a blaster.
Oh wait I can, because I currently have a Warshade, and as much as being a blaster must suck based on your statements, I doubt it is as painful as having to deal with Quants/Voids that purposely hide out of range and sight, have sniper range, and can 2-3 shot, and stun you, its sort of like having a Lost Pariah in every mission you have from lvl 1-50 and until issue 4 comes out a -30% resit to all damage.
Seriously if I had been negative in any way in my replies then I could under stand your anger, but I wasnt and the only one that I really disagreed with was the damage cap, and I gave a logical if not in your eyes good reason.
*edited to fix some lame spacing
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Well, as said in another thread, look at the Punisher listing for your server, and use the Find team search to see what AT they are. 9 times out of ten they are tankers or controllers. The rest are often scrappers. At least, they are more often scrappers than blasters.
[/ QUOTE ] Unfortuantely, that doesn't answer the question. That stats are not about who does more on a team. Those are about damage dealers, irrespective of teams, IIRC. As far as pure damage output, it seems pretty obvious anyone who can herd and then lay down fire patch is going dominate. Honestly, unless those stats are taking into account those dynamics, using them as justification is not a straw man..it's a rice paper man.
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Well a straw man would be if I mischaracterized someone elses arguement. I'm just making an argument of my own here, which is perhaps a bad one. But isn't the fact that other people can do more damage than a blaster solo something that would suggest blasters damage or defense is too low? Or that tanker and controller damage is too high?
If teaming blaster are really the best, then they would get the best exp, and people would want to team with them. Hence they would appear on those boards. However, the fact that they don't appear suggest that they aren't contributing as much as they should.
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Well, as said in another thread, look at the Punisher listing for your server, and use the Find team search to see what AT they are. 9 times out of ten they are tankers or controllers. The rest are often scrappers. At least, they are more often scrappers than blasters.
[/ QUOTE ] Unfortuantely, that doesn't answer the question. That stats are not about who does more on a team. Those are about damage dealers, irrespective of teams, IIRC. As far as pure damage output, it seems pretty obvious anyone who can herd and then lay down fire patch is going dominate. Honestly, unless those stats are taking into account those dynamics, using them as justification is not a straw man..it's a rice paper man.
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less a straw man, more of a justification in my eyes. Anyone who an grab like 6 or 7 groups, pull around a corner, then defeat them all single handedly way outdamages a blaster in a realistic sense.
It seems in CoH defense is actually the best offense.
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Has anyone done any datamining to show who does more damage on average in a team from lvls 1-50? Is it blasters or scrappers? Why do I get the feeling it's blasters?
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I am pretty sure that the Dev's have the numbers. The fact that Statesman did not come out and say that blasters deal more damage than scrappers kind throws your assumption in some murky waters.
Now here is a really funny thing, take two ATs. Only count the amount of damage to arrest a mob. Which one did more damage from 1-50 the scrapper or the blaster? Of course the blaster did because he was in debt more often at the higher levels. So your absolutely right in saying that blasters in generaly do more damage from 1-50 than scrappers. That was a pointless arguement now was it not?
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It's another thing to whine about another AT having a higher damage cap with absolutely zero proof on how that affects in-game results. It's like whining that some Winnebago has a speed-o-meter that goes to 300 MPH and yoru Ferrari only goes 210 MPH. So friggin what? How often do you see scrappers outdamaging blasters in team situation? That is the question I don't see answered.
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Actually that question has been answered over and over again for several months. The answer has always been that over the course of a mission the scrapper will deal more damage. As to complaining about the Caps, I explained it elsewhere that the scrapper will most likely never see the cap but what it represents is a slap in face to blasters. It would be like someone saying to a guy with a dragster that he was the fastest car on the lot and then giveing a sedan the power to actually go faster in the long run. Is the dragster really the fastest car on the lot? You could certainly say that in short bursts he is but is he really the fastest car? Is the statement "Blasters are the kings of damage" really true?
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And let me add, the vast majority of the game is not played at lvl 50. Issues that occur at lvl 45+ seem ridiculous to me when you've played through 95% of the content. So any meaningful analysis had better focus on the lvl ranges where the majority of people play their toons.
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Absolutley, and I suppose that of course you will be looking into the 30+ game since that is where the majority of people spend their game time when looking at 1-50.
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And let me offer you some reality Concern. From lvls 1-16..maybe even as high as 20...scrappers are pretty mediocre.
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Compared to late game scrappers. Jesus, in the early game the only way you can say that scrappers are mediocre is if you call every other AT mediocre. Everyone but controllers take on the same size mobs at the early levels. Now, you can point to specific sets and builds that do better but I can point to specific builds in the scrapper realm that will take down +1 bosses at level 8. Maybe even level six I have to check on power choices but it is certainly doable and without insperations for the scrap. That doesn't seem mediocre to me but it does not represent all scrappers either.
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But you dont' see scrappers pissing and moaning about it do you?
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Could be because they really don't have a problem. I don't know, makes sense to me. They certainly seem willing to make extremely long post counts whenever they do have a problem.
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Blasters it seems, have a different sweet spot, yet, judging by your posts, that is totally unacceptable that there should be any shift in power.
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You are going to have a really hard time finding posts of mine to support that arguement. I welcome you to try though.
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But it if the reason is based on coveting someone else's damage cap, irrespective of in-game results....let's hope they make the right call.
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The reason was never because of the damage cap. That was just iceing on the cake. It was the final insult. The last straw if you will.
All I can say then is that I will never play another Blaster again once I hit 50. I am fed up with this garbage. Ignore, ignore, ignore, hold out a carrot, take the carrot away. I'm sorry States, but you really have no idea what is going on. And I'm really sorry to see it. This really hurts my expectations on how long I can play this game. Its not like one Blaster has complained. every Blaster playing the game past 32 has complained. I've watched SG mates that were 5 levels below me pass me doing a lot of the same missions in the 30s. They hit 50 when I got to 47. And when I compare the time they spent getting to 50 while I sit at 49, they did it in less time...a lot less. Some in about half the time. Don't tell me what you can't see. Open your eyes! Look at all the data you can mine. Stop trying to placate us, pat our backs, and say "there, there," and then change your story when it suits you. I'm personally sick of it.
And if I sound angry, yes I guess I am. You completely ignore the blasters for months and months, show up here once to hold out a carrot, then turn around and hit us with a stick. Why don't you climb back up to your ivory tower and continue to ignore us. Don't worry. We'll go away shortly.
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Well, as said in another thread, look at the Punisher listing for your server, and use the Find team search to see what AT they are. 9 times out of ten they are tankers or controllers. The rest are often scrappers. At least, they are more often scrappers than blasters.
[/ QUOTE ] Unfortuantely, that doesn't answer the question. That stats are not about who does more on a team. Those are about damage dealers, irrespective of teams, IIRC. As far as pure damage output, it seems pretty obvious anyone who can herd and then lay down fire patch is going dominate. Honestly, unless those stats are taking into account those dynamics, using them as justification is not a straw man..it's a rice paper man.
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Well a straw man would be if I mischaracterized someone elses arguement. I'm just making an argument of my own here, which is perhaps a bad one. But isn't the fact that other people can do more damage than a blaster solo something that would suggest blasters damage or defense is too low? Or that tanker and controller damage is too high?
If teaming blaster are really the best, then they would get the best exp, and people would want to team with them. Hence they would appear on those boards. However, the fact that they don't appear suggest that they aren't contributing as much as they should.
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The fact that people can do more damage than a blasters over a given period of time can have nothing to do with who has more damaging attacks. It's about herding and regeneration i.e. health and endurance. Again, you are misapplying stats. Can't you see that if I take a fire tank into a hazard zone, I'm probably going to do mor damage than any other AT simply due to game mechanices? BE, this should glaringly obvious.
The Punisher listing is about who has "dealt" more damage as an individual, irrespective of being on a team or not (IIRC). Which also must consider that someone has set out to do so. Show me the DPS average chain of all blasters is lower than the DPS chain of scrappers ..over all levels...and you have a start. And I'm not talking about Electric versus Broadsword. I'm talking group average throughout the lifes span of the toon. Then, you have to show me that the difference in cap materially affects the average stats collected from real game play. Something I haven't seen posted by anyone.
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If teaming blaster are really the best, then they would get the best exp, and people would want to team with them.
[/ QUOTE ] BE, this is like three or four invalid assumptions in one sentence. No one said teaming blasters the the best. If they were, it does not prove that they should get the best XP. No one said that they would want to team with them. None of these things follow from the fact that blasters are probably still outdamaging scrappers on teams.
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However, the fact that they don't appear suggest that they aren't contributing as much as they should.
[/ QUOTE ] It doesn't say that at all. These posts indicate that there is a small % of actual players who have demonstrated they are dissatisfied with some aspect of their blasters. That's it. The devs will tell us if blasters are doing as much as they should. That doesn't mean it will be as much as you want. Obviously many tankers feel they should be doing a lot more damage than they are.
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Well a straw man would be if I mischaracterized someone elses arguement.
[/ QUOTE ] Not really.
First let me say that I actually was not responding with anger but was responding rather frankly. Some of your questions seemed rather strange and I attributed that to your lack of personal experience.
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Again show me in my post where I said this was a stupid request, I seem to remember thinking it sounded like a good idea. In any case being a scrapper I wouldnt want to hazard a guess at how often I had to chase down a mob because some blaster knocked them across the room, I believe the most typical response to this issue is, tough. Why should I use lesser attacks just for you? Why should the tanker adjust his attacks for you?
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This was the point! Why should the tanker refrain from useing his foot stomp? Answer: He shouldn't. Which is why I asked for better range in the primaries.
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Out of curiosity, how would you then benefit from this cap then without someone to buff you? Why should it matter if as you say it is so useless? Do you want to have an additional 100% of damage that you cant achieve without help too?
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I have talked about this in many places but basically allowing scrappers to do more damage to blasters and giveing them better defenses is an insult to the blaster class. Let me ask you what makes you think you need the 100% you don't use?
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The devs have made it pretty clear that if you want something boosted that you are going to have to loose something.
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The dev's have made it clear that when something was supporting the role of an AT that it would be improved. Punchvoke, and taunt for tankers, Katana improvements for scrappers not to mention stacking armor. Exactly what was the price for stacking armor? Oh, that right, there wasn't one other than the inherent cost in the armor themselves that was always there. The devs are very willing to change something for the better without doing a give and take.
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Oh wait I can, because I currently have a Warshade, and as much as being a blaster must suck based on your statements, I doubt it is as painful as having to deal with Quants/Voids that purposely hide out of range and sight, have sniper range, and can 2-3 shot, and stun you, its sort of like having a Lost Pariah in every mission you have from lvl 1-50 and until issue 4 comes out a -30% resit to all damage.
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Hi, I have a warshade too. As a matter of fact I found the War Shade three form to be so easy I went straight for the human only form to find a challenge after playing my blaster. Warshades are a little hard to play in the early levels but after you get nova it is pretty easy compared to a blaster in the 30+ game. You would really have to play a blaster to understand.
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Seriously if I had been negative in any way in my replies then I could under stand your anger, but I wasnt and the only one that I really disagreed with was the damage cap, and I gave a logical if not in your eyes good reason.
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I wasn't angry. Check out freedom fury's thread on Blasters in CoH if you want to see a furious post. As to your logical explanation it ignores the stated reason given by the devs for the damage caps being the way they are. It is similar to saying well I believe the sky is blue because venus is green. Even doing only lethal damage you are putting out damage comparable to blasters. Or you will be once you slot your powers.
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Well, as said in another thread, look at the Punisher listing for your server, and use the Find team search to see what AT they are. 9 times out of ten they are tankers or controllers. The rest are often scrappers. At least, they are more often scrappers than blasters.
[/ QUOTE ] Unfortuantely, that doesn't answer the question. That stats are not about who does more on a team. Those are about damage dealers, irrespective of teams, IIRC. As far as pure damage output, it seems pretty obvious anyone who can herd and then lay down fire patch is going dominate. Honestly, unless those stats are taking into account those dynamics, using them as justification is not a straw man..it's a rice paper man.
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Well a straw man would be if I mischaracterized someone elses arguement. I'm just making an argument of my own here, which is perhaps a bad one. But isn't the fact that other people can do more damage than a blaster solo something that would suggest blasters damage or defense is too low? Or that tanker and controller damage is too high?
If teaming blaster are really the best, then they would get the best exp, and people would want to team with them. Hence they would appear on those boards. However, the fact that they don't appear suggest that they aren't contributing as much as they should.
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The fact that people can do more damage than a blasters over a given period of time can have nothing to do with who has more damaging attacks. It's about herding and regeneration i.e. health and endurance. Again, you are misapplying stats. Can't you see that if I take a fire tank into a hazard zone, I'm probably going to do mor damage than any other AT simply due to game mechanices? BE, this should glaringly obvious.
The Punisher listing is about who has "dealt" more damage as an individual, irrespective of being on a team or not (IIRC). Which also must consider that someone has set out to do so. Show me the DPS average chain of all blasters is greater than the DPS chain of scrappers ..over all levels...and you have a start. And I'm not talking about Electric versus Broadsword. I'm talking group average throughout the lifes span of the toon..
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If teaming blaster are really the best, then they would get the best exp, and people would want to team with them.
[/ QUOTE ] BE, this is like three or four invalid assumptions in one sentence. No one said teaming blasters the the best. If they were, it does not prove that they should get the best XP. No one said that they would want to team with them. None of these things follow from the fact that blasters are probably still outdamaging scrappers on teams.
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However, the fact that they don't appear suggest that they aren't contributing as much as they should.
[/ QUOTE ] It doesn't say that at all. These posts indicate that there is a small % of actual players who have demonstrated they are dissatisfied with some aspect of their blasters. That's it. The devs will tell us if blasters are doing as much as they should. That doesn't mean it will be as much as you want. Obviously many tankers feel they should be doing a lot more damage than they are.
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Well a straw man would be if I mischaracterized someone elses arguement.
[/ QUOTE ] Not really.
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I'm not sure I understand your argument here. Are you saying blasters are balanced because they do more damage than the other people on their team? I think so. (If I'm wrong, that would be commiting a straw man, not what ever you thought)
That isn't enough to make balance, especially considering that others solo can kill more stuff than blasters (hence hire ratingsin the Victor screen). Blasters would have to actually do enough more damage to be desirable in a team. That is, they would have to do enough damage to make other characters want to team with them. If they did do enough damage to make others team with them, one would assume that they would be in teams a lot. This could be wrong, but we are thinking of people as rational actors like in economics for this thought experiment.
Then assuming that blasters are often in team, it would seem to suggest that the damage of blasters as a team would be the damage of blasters on the Punisher list. If another AT did more damage than the grouped blaster (who would make up most of the highest damaging blasters, and would exist), then we could conclude that this would make blasters not truly the best at dealing damage, teamed or not.
If you think this makes assumptions, well yes it does. Here are some of them:
It assumes that all players wish to maximize exp by defeating the most foes possible.
It assumes that players will recognize when teaming creates a mutual advantage.
It assumes that blasters are balanced and do enough damage to be desireable in any team.
It also has the warrent of its claims that if a blaster doesn't do enough damage teamed to beat out some other AT solo than they aren't balanced.
If you disagree, show me how my assumptions are counter to fact, or how my conclusion doesn't follow from them. That is how logical debate works. If you know what a straw man is, you should understand that.
Mieux, I play Scrappers, Blasters, and "Blappers".
I can tell you from personal experience that Blasters do 60% more damage than Scrappers in the early levels. It's simply how they are slotted.
In the 20's and into the 30's, however, Scrappers get the extra slots to put into thier attacks, and Blasters get extra slots for....utility/travel powers.
By the mid-30's, Blasters have an effective 10% damage bonus compared to Scrappers...the difference between the base damages, basically. Yes, Scrapper damage is resisted more often. Yes, Scrappers might not have an entire attack chain 6-slotted yet.
Let's call that a 25% damage difference between the two in the mid game. Scrappers get Criticals on average, 5% of the time. One in every 20 attacks does double damage, so we're down to a 21% real difference.
Ok, is a ~21% damage boost + range (but less than many mobs) equivalent to the capability of Scrapper secondaries? That's the question...so far, the answer seems to be: no. Do you agree?
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
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Er... and who would that be exactly?
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Orochi and Filburt come immediately to mind. That's not complete list, just the two names that I can recall (Orochi because it's very recent, Filburt because that's apparently his favorite thing in these threads).
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I'm against tank mages, at least as far as not everyone in this game is a tank mage (maybe if everyone was I wouldn't have a problem with tank/scraps/post 32 controllers)
As it currently stands Tankers have the best defences in the game, and the highest single target attack in the game, with the only downfall of that being that if you herd and stack too many mobs at one place you can accidentally kill yourself, it also has a set designed to protect itself through killing everything around it, which means it's fairly safe and very damaging.
Scrappers are about the same as that.
Post 32 controllers are what really get me in the risk/reward senario, the worst offender, gets an invincable tank team, and summonable energy blasters, the others, except mind (and maybe gravity, I'm not sure on it's damage output with the sings.) can do about the same, and once they summon these pets, they can just Phase shift and let the pets go to town, or die, who cares, no XP debt.
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Er... and who would that be exactly?
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Orochi and Filburt come immediately to mind. That's not complete list, just the two names that I can recall (Orochi because it's very recent, Filburt because that's apparently his favorite thing in these threads).
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I'm against tank mages, at least as far as not everyone in this game is a tank mage (maybe if everyone was I wouldn't have a problem with tank/scraps/post 32 controllers)
As it currently stands Tankers have the best defences in the game, and the highest single target attack in the game, with the only downfall of that being that if you herd and stack too many mobs at one place you can accidentally kill yourself, it also has a set designed to protect itself through killing everything around it, which means it's fairly safe and very damaging.
Scrappers are about the same as that.
Post 32 controllers are what really get me in the risk/reward senario, the worst offender, gets an invincable tank team, and summonable energy blasters, the others, except mind (and maybe gravity, I'm not sure on it's damage output with the sings.) can do about the same, and once they summon these pets, they can just Phase shift and let the pets go to town, or die, who cares, no XP debt.
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Actually, to be fair, I'd say that tanks are more unbalanced than scrappers, at least in a few sets and a few builds. The thing is scrappers have been unbalanced longer (as have blasters, but the wrong way).
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leave Tankers ALONE!!!
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What does that have to do with anything?
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Exactly nothing. But then again, it doesn't really need to have to do with anything. Any time Blasters want positive improvements to the AT, it sets off waves of "They're calling for our AT to be nerfed!" and other bits of paranoia from non-Blasters.