*************
II. The Math
*************
For those of you who don't like math, this section ain't for you. You'll probably want to skip all the way down to section D.iv, where I talk about some real world data. For the math-lovers, this will be a *very* deep dive into the exact details of XP/mob and XP/hour effects of Confuse powers.
For those just reading this to remind themselves of the base confuse formula, it's in section 'A', which will be starting right......
A. Basic Formula
----------------
....now.
When you get partial XP for a mob, you don't get it based on the fraction of the mob's total hp you took away. Why? First of all, during the course of any fight, most mobs will take damage totaling *greater* than their total hit points (due to natural healing during the fight). So, the formula (damage done)/(mobs total hps) can give you more than 100% XP -- I'm sure that formula was thrown out early in the CoH development cycle.
Instead, what you get is (your damage dealt)/(all damage dealt). This works out better, since it can never be 100%. It has some interesting side effects, too. For example: if you deal 99 points of damage to a 100 hp mob before being forced to retreat -- and the mob heals back to 100% health before being killed by another random hero who comes along -- you both end up getting 50% XP for it, even though you both did (basically) 100% damage to it! So, when XP is calculated, you're up against many other possible sources: other heroes, who may even have done damage that has completely healed, falling damage, and damage dealt by other, confused mobs.
When a confused mob does damage, though, it deals full damage, but the number that gets recorded for the final XP-calculation tally is discounted by a factor of 75%.
So, in terms of final XP, let's look at an example, and make an analogy.
In this example, you have a confused friend. He attacks a 200-hp mob and deals 100 points of damage -- and then, for the purposes of this example, disappears. (Perhaps he was an exploding Vahz.) You now deal the remaining 100 points of damage.
To determine XP, first the server will total *all* damage done to the mob.
100 points (you)
+ 25 points (the damage your confused friend dealt, after the 75% discount)
-----------------
125 points of damage (that count for XP), total.
Then, your contribution is calculated:
100 points (you) / 125 points (total) = 80%
In this scenario, you get 80% of the total XP value of the mob.
To make an analogy, the confused mob attack has a net effect similar to: first debuffing the mob's total hit points by 75, making it 'act like' a 125 hit point mob for XP purposes, and then dealing 25 points of damage to it.
The formula for calculating your net XP (when the only other source is a confused mob) is:
(your damage)
-----------------------------------------
(your damage) + ((confused mob damage)/4)
Here's a handy table for this, rounded to the nearest percent. If you do A% of the total damage to the mob, and all the other damage is 'confused' damage, you get B% of the total XP for the mob:
A.....B
0.....0
10....31
20....50
25....57
30....63
40....73
50....80
60....86
70....90
75....92
80....94
90....97
100...100
A handy way to remember this table for approximations in-game is: 20 gets you 50, 50 gets you 80, 80 gets you 95.
(For your own work: this table can be generated in Excel, or a similar spreadsheet utility, with the formula, '=A1/(A1 + ((1-A1)*0.25))'. 'A1' is a number between 0 and 1 (percentage). If the mob discount ever changes, you can recalculate by changing the 0.25 to a new value.)
B. Alternate Interpretations
----------------------------
i. Mob Damage Credit
Despite that fact that you don't get *any* credit for the damage dealt by a confused mob, people sure *want* to think of it that way. So, what I'll put below is the table of "what it's *kinda* like you get credit for". Because of the way the formula works, it's not a set percentage -- it scales based on the amount of damage you're doing.
So, here it is: if you do A% of the damage, it's *like* you get credit for your own damage, plus B% credit for confused mob damage:
A.....B
0.....0
10....23
20....38
25....43
30....47
40....55
50....60
60....64
70....68
75....69
80....71
90....72
99.9..74.9
So, if you're averaging a rate of about 33% or better in the amount of damage you're able to deal, it's *like* you're getting better than 50% credit for the mob damage.
Excel: '= ((B1)-A1)/(1-A1)', where column B was generated by the formula in the previous section.
ii. DPS acceleration
Another way to look at it is in terms of acceleration of damage per second. If you look at the 'Mob Damage Credit' analogy above, it's not too hard to think of Confusion-based powers as boosting your 'damage per second' output -- as least as far as the final XP haul is concerned. And, if you care about what your exact dps is in the first place, you probably the type of player who cares about how fast you're getting XP.
So, here is: if you do A% of the damage, it's *like* your overall DPS is boosted by B% when you look at the final XP total:
(note: by 'boosted', I mean above your base damage -- so a value of '+100' for B means a total of 200% of your base)
A.....B
0.....0
10....+207
20....+150
25....+129
30....+110
40....+82
50....+60
60....+43
70....+29
75....+23
80....+17
90....+8
Excel: '=A1/((A1 + ((1-A1)*0.25))*A1)'
A few words of caution about interpreting this viewpoint. You'll notice that the biggest 'virtual dps boost' is down at the bottom of the scale. This is somewhat counter-intuitive: fighting enemies whose damage capability far outpaces your own is actually a *good* thing! But, it's important to note that this scale isn't saying, "slow down your damage output, so you'll get more XP". For example:
Let's say my damage output is 100 dps, and I also am toting along a confused mob with a damage output of 100 dps. I'm doing 50% of the damage -- so, the rate at which I rake in XP is equivalent to what I would rake in if my dps was 160, unassisted (+60, from the chart above).
Now, if I *intentionally* throttle down my dps to, say, 33 dps, so that I'm only doing around 25% of the total damage, I get a boost of +129%! But, against my dps of 33, that only makes a 'virtual dps' of 75 dps -- far less than the 'virtual' 160 I got going full throttle. Throttling back always decreases your 'virtual dps', or, more importantly, your XP/time.
What this *does* imply, though: if you're always going full-out at your 100 dps, and you have a choice between a confuse target that does about 100 dps itself, or one that does 200 dps itself -- grabbing the friend who has more damage output is the best for you!
Or, more realistically, if you're deciding whether to hunt +2's or +3's, the +3's may be a better deal for you -- because the damage +3's can do to each other is more than +2's can do to each other, *and* the damage you can do to +3's is *less* than you can do to +2's. (Once you get over the +4 ceiling, this ceases to be the case, because the XP keeps scaling linearly per level, but the damage you can do scales exponentially downward.)
C. XP/time vs. XP/mob
---------------------
I've wandered around this topic a bit already, but it's time to state it explicitly. Lots of folks worry about Confusion powers because they're getting less than full XP. The important thing to keep in mind here is that, by getting assistance from confused friends, you're also killing off mobs faster. Specifically: if you're doing around 10% of the damage -- you're also arresting mobs about 10x faster than you normally would. (Actual speed may vary depending on your less-than-ideal conditions, but more on that in a bit.) In terms of XP/hour, here's the theoretical 'maximum' XP/hour improvement under *ideal* circumstances - gained by multiplying your XP/mob by 1/A%:
If your doing A% of the damage, your getting B% "bonus" XP/hour over not using Confuse:
A.....B
0.....0
10....+207
20....+150
25....+129
30....+110
40....+82
50....+60
60....+43
70....+29
75....+23
80....+17
90....+8
You may notice that these number look strikingly familiar -- in fact, identical to the previous table! That's no accident. We calculated your 'virtual' dps by adding the percent of mob damage that 'it was like you got credit for'. In the game, if your dps increases by 50%, your XP/hour increases by a like amount, under ideal conditions. We find here that, by looking at your XP/mob multiplied by your faster mob/hour rate, we get the exact same acceration factor that we would've predicted based on the 'virtual' dps we calculated, above.
D. Field Results
----------------
OK, now we get to that curious phrase I've used a number of times: 'under ideal conditions'. What does that mean?
Ideal conditions: You have an endurance recovery rate sufficient that you *never* have to pause and take a breath. You are street hunting down a street where the next group of mobs is always a few steps away, out of aggro range. You have a natural break in your attack cycle already to accommodate the animation time of Confuse/Deceive/Mass Confusion, so that activating that power does not slow down your base dps. Your powers are always all recharged at the start of the next fight.
In short: no-one has ideal conditions. Of course, if you're interested enough in the math that you're still reading this section, you've got at least a little power-gamer in you, and you've probably already built your character with this in mind -- you've got Stamina, and perhaps even another endurance recovery power, to minimize your downtime. When you're really interested in raking in some XP, you've got a favorite street-hunting spot or big 8-person mission with plentiful, closely spaced spawns.
But, how 'un-ideal' do conditions have to get before Confuse really *does* start taking away from your XP/hour? We'll take a look at that next.
i. Downtime
The first thing we'll look at is 'downtime'. This covers pausing to recover endurance, travel time to find your next target, waiting for long-cycle powers to recharge, or combination of the three.
Confuse powers may speed up your fights, but they won't speed up the downtime in between fights. (Well, they might. Often, since the fight ends faster, you may not have drained your endurance as completely as if you had to do all the damage yourself. But, for the purposes of showing that Confuse is a benefit, we'll start with the most strict assumption: that the use of confuse doesn't decrease your downtime.)
What this means is, when mixing in Confuse powers, your ratio of 'uptime' to 'downtime' decreases. This ratio is also important when looking at your XP/hour.
Under normal circumstances, experience per time (XPS) for hunting spawns of MObs looks like this:
Where:
X = Experience value of average spawn
F = [FIGHT] time each spawn takes to fully defeat
S = [SEARCH] time it takes after each fight to find the next fight
Experience per time is equal to total spawn experience dividied by the sum of fight time plus search time.
XPS = X/(F+S)
When using confuse, XPS for hunting spawns looks like this:
Where:
D = fraction of the spawn's damage done by you, where 1 = 100%.
Experience per time with confused mobs doing some damage (CXPS) is equal to the proper portion of the spawn's experience if you exclude 75% of the confused MObs' damage from the distribution, divided by the sum of the confued fight time (which is shorter than a fight without confuse by the same factor as the fraction of damage you yourself did) plus search time.
CXPS = 4DX/((3D+1)*(DF+S))
When comparing XPS and CXPS, the most useful thing we can easily talk about is where the "break even" point in experience per time is. IOW, when do you get better XPS with, vs without, confuse.
To find a rule about break-even XPS, set the two equations equal to each other.
Break-even point rule:
CXPS=XPS
**********
4DX/((3D+1)*(DF+S)) = X/(F+S)
(F+S)*4DX = X *((3D+1)*(DF+S))
4DXF + 4DXS = 3DDXF + 3DXS +DXF + XS
3DXF + DXS = 3DDXF + XS
3DXF -3DDXF = XS -DXS
3DFX(1-D) = XS(1-D)
3DFX = XS
**********
S = 3DF
Which is to say, you break even for experience per time where the search for the next fight takes an amount of time equal to three times as long as the confuse-free fight would, multiplied by the fraction of the damage you did.
If you find new spawns faster than that, your XPS is better with confuse than without. If you find them slower, XPS gets worse.
Which is a pleasingly simple rule, really.
So, to use a few examples: if you average only 10% damage, your average fight time (without using confuse) should be more than 3.33 times your average downtime: 1/(3*0.10) = 3.33
If you average 20% damage (with confuse), your average non-confuse fight time should be more than 1.67 times your average downtime.
So, to figure out whether you should expect to come out ahead by using confuse, estimate your average time to complete a fight, and divide by your guess as to how long you spend between fights. If the answer is 4 or more, don't worry: you're winning by using confuse. If the answer is less than 4, find it (approximately) on the chart above, and make sure you're contributing that much or more damage when you *are* using confuse.
Author's Note: I find personally that I tend to have fights that last about a minute and a half when soloing without confuse, and can generally get into the 50% damage (80% XP) area when I *do* use confuse. That means I need my 'in between fight' time to be less than about 2.25 minutes -- not too hard. Figure 2.25 minutes is the 'break even', and the 'ideal' 0 minute downtime is a +60% XP/hour bonus -- if I keep my downtime around 45 seconds, I'll still be up in the +40% range.
I find, when teaming, that the team stays high enough on this scale to not need to worry, unless my team is hunting *way* under it's capability. 90%+ damage is the norm, and keeping downtime under 3x fight time is a piece of cake. Of course, up in the 90-100% damage range, the 'bonus' over an hour is hardly noticeable: the +8% at 90, which will probably end up getting knocked back to +2-4% with downtime. It ain't gonna be a meaningful acceleration. But, it's also really hard for it to hurt.
ii. Animation
Another deviation from the ideal is the animation time of the various powers. When I have to slip in a Confusion midstream, it *will* sometimes interrupt my dps output. To minimize this, you should be putting duration enhancements in your confuse powers, not recharge reductions. But, be aware of this, and monitor how much damage you are sacrificing to be able to use your Confuse powers.
Author's Note: Personally, I've been able to avoid this for the most part. On my MC, Terrify is my main damage dealer for larger groups when soloing, for pairs, I've got a long enough duration on Confuse that I only need it occasionally. And teaming, of course, I'm never a significant dps contributor.
iii. The One that Got Away
Try as you might, you're not always going to evenly deal damage to every mob -- and, sometimes, one will get 'offed' without you ever landing a blow. Yes, this *can* be a problem, although not as much as you think. You see, while you missed one guy completely, in the meantime you were dealing *better* than your average damage to some of the other guys, and getting *more* XP than your average payout from them. In short, while missing guys completely will cut into your XP earnings somewhat, it's often a marginal cost. Here's an example:
You're facing a group of 5 mobs, all with 100 hp. You cast Mass Confusion, and can then spam out damage at the rate of, say, 100 points over the course of 20 seconds. They all deal about 80 points of damage a piece over 20 seconds.
In the 'ideal' case, you deal 20 points to each of the 5 guys, they deal the rest, and you end up with 50%XP for each of the five mobs - or, 2.5 mobs-worth.
Now, in a slightly more realistic case, you miss one of the guys completely -- his buddies focus on him first, so instead of 20-20-20-20-20, you deal 0-25-25-25-25. In this case, you end up with 57% of 4 mobs, or 2.28 mobs worth.
Yep, you've lost a little, but not a full one-fifth of the original 2.5. And, by yourself, you could've only killed one of those mobs in the same 20 second interval.
The bottom line is: in the worst case, where you only killed one of the guys, and the other four all killed each other without you getting a shot in -- you're right back where you started, at your 'base' XP/hour rate. The One That Got Away cuts into your bonus, sure -- but he never drives you into the negative.
iv. Results
Well, enough of all this theoretical hogwash. The real question is, does it work?
The answer, from what I've seen, is yes. I've even done some controlled experiments, hunting the same area for a couple of hours without touching Confusion powers, and for a couple of hours *with* Confusion powers. Same things with some teams (albeit never with a pick-up team) -- doing hunting in the same area first using Confuse, and then not using it. I did this because, theory aside, I wanted to know if it really *was* helping me.
I never came up with a higher XP total for the non-Confuse run. In some cases, it was close, and only a few percentage points higher when using Confuse powers - specifically, in teams, this tended to be the case. However, there was also never had a team-death during the runs with Confuse/Mass Confusion on full-auto, while there were sporadic ones on the non-Confuse runs. While soloing, I averaged around +10% to +15%/hour using confusion powers, once all of the 'real world' factors cut into the bonuses. But still, always net positive using Confusion powers.
I have also been reading this board off and on since June 2004, and I don't recall ever seeing anyone posting that they did actual test runs with and without confuse powers, wrote down all of their totals, and found that they got more XP *not* using confuse. Lots of people have claimed it doesn't "feel" faster -- but, amongst posters who actually armed themselves with a calculator and stopwatch, I have yet to hear any reports that would dispute better (or at least equal) XP/hour when using Confusion powers.
This all doesn't prove that it will work in real-life for you, the reader. But, evidence suggests it's very *likely* that it will work for you. At least give it a try over on test, see you your own experience compares. At worst, it'll be a couple hours of playtime that you'll have lost -- at best, you may discover the fun of a new power you'd previously not considered using.
*****************
III. The Tactics
*****************
Whew! You made it to the other side of the math, and you're still reading. Congratulations! Here's a cookie.
In this section, we'll leave the math behind us, and talk about strategies for using Confusion powers effectively.
A. General Tactics
------------------
- Lead with Confusion: Confusion powers do not draw aggro! This makes them one of the best powers to lead with. For particularly difficult fights, in fact, you may want to even them duke it out for a bit *before* engaging. A particularly nasty boss will happily dispatch all of his own minions for you, and then wait patiently while you layer hold magnitude on him, with a good healthy dose of Confusion up front. Also, two applications of Confuse/Deceive on a boss *before* your initial TD/Flash will keep the boss from getting in an initial shot in reaction. For an added bonus, mix in Mass Hypnosis first, and then Mass Confusion. By starting with mass hypnosis and following with mass confusion you will have an aggroless start that keeps the enemies in their initial clump until damage has been done. Another good open is Mass Confusion, then layer Terrify. Starts with the aggroless beginning, follows with damage + debuff + fear. The villians will continue to attack each other at a minor accuracy debuff, staying in their initial clump (to a degree) and will not participate unless acted against.
- Let your friends do the heavy lifting: Low on end, and resting before the next fight? While you're waiting for your bar to refill, fire off a Confuse/Deceive into the next crowd, and let them get a head start on each other while you're resting. It'll shorten the resulting fight for you, and get you off to your next conquest. (This is recommended for Confuse/Deceive, with their relatively low end cost, but not for Mass Confusion, which will cost enough end to delay the start of the fight by a fair amount, negating the benefit.)
- Tidying up: for many mobs, getting confused will ultimately lead them back into melee against their buddies. So, this makes it an excellent tool to 'position' melee-oriented mobs who've somehow gotten themselves too far out of a nice tight AoE cluster. (Mind Controllers: Confuse mobs that have slipped out of your Telekinesis field, and 3 times out of 4, they'll turn around with the intent of attacking their buddies, run up to them, and nicely deposit themselves back in the TK area of effect! Great fun at parties!)
- Confuse defender-oriented mobs first: if given the option, put the highest priority on defender-oriented mobs (Tsoo Sorcerors, Shamans, etc.). Having them switch sides with their buffs/debuffs will often be a real tide-turner in the battle. Other mobs also have interesting 'side benefits'. Here's a quick list of some of the best mobs to confuse for 'side benefits':
Embalmed Vahz - A confused Embalmed will blow up and damage the vahz around them while not damaging you or your allies.
Soul Mages - When below 1/4 health, they will blow up damaging the CoT around them, but not you or your allies.
Sorcs, Medics, Shaman and other Buffers - Will buff you and your team rather than their team.
Communication Officers, Devoured and other Summoners, including portals - All summoned villians will arrive confused until the initial confuse on the summoner wears off.
Proximity-oriented bombs - Will detonate themselves when they're confused.
- Push the envelope: regardless of whether you're solo or on a team, liberal use of Confusion powers can really bump up the level of enemy you can safely engage. Take advantage of it!
- Slotting, Author's Take: If you're serious about using Confusion powers regularly, you'll probably want to put at least two duration enhancers and an accuracy in Confuse/Deceive. Since it has a long animation time, you don't want to be hitting it *that* often to refresh the confuse -- plus, this makes for much more reliable boss-confusing. Mass Confusion, if you're willing to commit to it, should probably have 1-2 accuracy, 2-3 hold, and 2 recharge reduction.
B. Solo Tactics
---------------
- Confuse the little guy: If you're a pre-26 mind or pre-18 illusion, soloing, you're often taking on pairs/triplets of mobs, who are somewhere above your level. Your best bet while hunting these groups is to Confuse the minion to help take out the lieutenant, or confuse the lt to help take out the boss. If you struggle with you damage output, the lt's/bosses can take you a *while* to take out on your own -- make sure that *they're* the ones you get the help taking down -- then you can finish off the minion on your own.
- Swap places: if you're soloing pairs, let your confused friend help you take one of the mobs down most of the way -- and then hold him, and confuse the other guy. When he wakes up, he'll help you take down the first guy. This helps avoid the part of the fight where you have to take a long time when your 'helper' is the last one standing.
- Ordering: For mind controllers, here is a good attack sequence that has been endorsed by myself, and also a number of folks who've used Mass Confusion when soloing on the Controller board:
1. Total Domination
2. Terrify, Terrify, repeat for approximate duration of TD. (learn how many Terrifies you can get off under a TD), insert layered holds or Confuse/Deceive on Bosses, in prep for:
3. A few seconds before TD wears off (which you know from learning your Terrify timing), Mass Confusion
4. Terrify, Terrify, Terrify...., insert layered holds/confuse/deceive on bosses
5. A few seconds before MC wears off (if anyone's still standing), Total Domination again.
6. Terrify, Terrify, Terrify
7. Anyone left? Sheesh. Mass Hypnosis, and then leave the fight and go respec more damage slots into Terrify 
.
Note: you'll need hasten, not to mention recharge reducers and duration enhancers spread across TD and MC to get the cycle clean to the second TD. If you're not at that point yet, you can bridge the gap with Mass Hypnosis, if the initial TD and MC is not long enough for you to finish the fight.
Of course, as much as you can afford it, insert your debuffs/other damage dealing powers between Terrify cycles.
C. Group Tactics
----------------
- Panic Button: This is somewhat specific to Mass Confusion. On a team, you're likely not looking at too much 'XP/hour' acceleration, since your team is likely dealing a lion's share of the damage. At the same time, Mass Confusion is more of a 'tide turner' than the equivalent holds. Often, it's best to lead with your hold/AoE hold, and leave MC in reserve, for either: (a) when your initial hold wears off, or (b) when something goes horribly, horribly wrong, and you need to stop the bleeding, fast.
If you're leading with Mass Confusion every time it's up, it's a lot less likely to be there when something unexpected happens, and a heaping pile of debt is on the line. MC is great debt-insurance on a team.
****************
IV. The Debates
****************
Why is this guide necessary in the first place? Well, because confusion-based powers are one of the more contentious topics here on the Controller board, with both sides of each argument being fairly passionate about their position. What I'll try and do here is present the arguments of both sides as objectively and succinctly as I can -- and then finish off by giving you my own personal take on the issues. Note that I've separated out a couple of arguments that are usually intertwined. I'm going to try and address them separately for additional clarity.
A. Mass Confusion vs. Pet Powers
--------------------------------
The Haters: Most controllers get access to pets at level 32, at which point their ability to solo skyrockets, and they get the 'payout' for their 32 levels of struggling. Mind Controllers, on the other hand, get a power that's situational at best, and in many team situations they'll be asked not to use it! They have to sit on their hands, spamming 'lft' while watching their controller brethren trounce off into the Ritki Crash Site, with pets merrily in tow. They get the short end of the stick.
The Lovers: For starters, many Mind Controllers picked MC because they didn't *want* a pet in the first place. Those who picked Mind Control and decide later that they really want a pet: Caveat Emptor. Meanwhile, for the rest of us, what we sacrifice in damage output, we make up in pure control. No other class can offer as much damage mitigation as a Mind Controller. A Mind controller that takes most of his primary can offer 100% damage mitigation on 4 separate clusters (TD, MH, MC, and TK) and immobilize + severe damage reduction on a 5th cluster, simultaneously! In short, a Mind Controller is seldom, if ever, left without a control power to launch if a fight goes sour. And as far as the pure damage output: yes, pets can do more. However, if you're willing to use Mass Confusion as a proper tool when soloing, you *can* wade through groups at a decent pace, yourself.
The Haters: Well, all of that control is great, but really, how often do you really need to deal with 5 separate groups? Seriously, 1 AoE hold + pets is good enough. Pets take aggro, which is just as good as a hold for damage mitigation. I'll take damage output *and* damage mitigation over *just* damage mitigation, thank you very much.
The Lovers: Well, pets offer *some* damage mitigation, but they're not as solid. Your teammates can sometimes/often get the aggro away from the pets, plus pets sometimes accidentally aggro the wrong group. Neither of these are issues for a well-played Mind Controller -- the situation never gets out of hand. As far as the '5 forms of control' goes: yes, most of the time, you *don't* need that much control. However, in the 5% of the time when you need it, it's there.
The Author's Take: For starters, I think that this whole debate is a little off kilter, because I don't think that Mass Confusion is the *right* power to compare pets to. The role of pets in a controller's arsenal is 'good damage output + some damage mitigation'. If you're going down the list of Mind powers, it's actually our level 26 power, Terrify, that is more of a direct comparison to pets -- it is the power we get that has the most potential damage output, and it combines with *some* damage mitigation. I think people get caught up in the lvl 32 <-> lvl 32 comparison mindset. But, this viewpoint is a radical departure from the more common arguments. So, I'll get back to those:
Not surprisingly, I fall firmly in 'Lovers' camp that is happy without a pet. My Mind controller does not have the same damage output as most of the other pet-bearing classes (although, to be fair, it helps that I'm a Mind/Storm). I find that I'm satisfied with my damage output, though, and can still solo at a bearable rate when making heavy use of Confusion powers. And, I *do* use all of my control when I'm on a team. Not all the time, but there have been moments where I've scraped the bottom of the barrel, and been happy to have all of the options I do.
That all being said: the 'Haters' camp is correct: without a pet, Mind Control simply does not have the same solo capability as the other classes. Some folks will say that Mind simply cannot solo, period; but there are enough lvl 50's out there who disagree that I think that position is too harsh. Clearly, *some* folks have been able to solo with Mind Controllers. I think the fairest thing to say would be, 'Mind Control *can* solo if you plan your build to do it -- but it is still one of the hardest/slowest primaries in *any* archetype to do it with.' In the end, it comes down to personal preference, and I don't think there's a 'right' answer to this one.
B. 100% XP
-----------
This argument breaks down into a couple of sub-arguments: 'what's fair' and 'what's balanced'. The 'what's fair' argument is somewhat secondary, though, as it always ends up leading back to 'what's balanced'. Let's watch!
+++++++
The Haters: It's not fair! Why shouldn't we get full XP? We're the ones using our powers to defeat the mobs, after all! It's not like the mobs would've just 'arrested each other' if we didn't come along. Since it's our actions that are leading to the mobs arrest, why wouldn't we get full XP for it?
The Lovers: Whether we get XP is not a question of whether it's fair, it's a question of whether it's balanced. Giving full XP for confusion powers would make them *too* powerful, so even if it was more 'fair' that way, it can't be done because of balance issues.
+++++++
You see what happened, there? The lovers steered the argument right back to balance issues! Those darn Lovers! OK, on to the balance issues:
+++++++
The Lovers: You see, because Confusion powers don't cause aggro, you don't put yourself at any risk when using them. The game can't reward you with XP you can harvest without ever putting yourself at risk.
The Haters: Pshaw! (Disclaimer: Haters may not actually use the word 'phsaw'.) With my pet-based controller, I'm already playing at zero risk with all of my pets. I send my pets into a group of even-cons, fire off a AoE hold, and let them clean up. The pets take all of the aggro, and no-one *ever* looks my way. Zero risk, full xp.
The Lovers: Well, that's not *quite* zero-risk. Things can still go wrong with that plan -- pets can accidentally aggro other groups; the controller can still get some aggro if the pets die off, etc. Plus, let's not talk about even-cons, let's talk about what you can hit with Mass Confusion six-slotted between Accuracy and Confuse Duration. The 'no risk' proposition there stays no-risk even if you're taking on groups of +5, +6 level. (With enough accuracy enhancements, plus some other pool/APP's, or help from a defender -- yeah, you can get an effective hit rate against +6's.) Remember, it only takes one hit from a single-target confuse for a high level lieutenant to deal out hundreds of point of damage. That's way more than any of our controller-grade damage dealing powers can do -- a Mass Confusion that sticks on even half a group can do some serious damage. Send your pets in against the same group of +6's, and yeah, you'll be taking a risk.
Alternately, you can use single-target confuse on a single boss at +5 level. If you know the right bosses to pick, you can easily find a boss that can one-shot his minions. Now, pets have *good* damage output, but they don't go around routinely one-shotting things -- especially not mobs at +5 to their level!
All of the following Bosses can one-shot their minions:
Zeus Titans
False Nemesis & Warhulks
Rikti Chiefs
Paragon Protectors (depending on power set)
Freak Tank Slammers
But, even excluding one-shotters, a boss will be able to decimate all the minions around him in a very short time span. As other powerbuilds have shown, with street sweeping, you only need one unbalancing mob type to powerlevel. As it stands, a boss outclasses his minions by so much that almost every mob would be unbalancing.
The Haters: So, you can work over a group of +5's. Big deal. How long will it take you to get them all arrested, using nothing but confuse? 10 minutes? In the meantime, my pet-based controller has gone through a bunch of groups, and has gotten far more XP in those 10 minutes than you did whittling down your high-level group using nothing but Confusion powers. I don't see that being unbalanced.
The Lovers: Balance issues aren't *always* an issue of who can get solo-XP/hour the fastest -- there are some things the developers don't want you to be able to do. Being cavalier about engaging large groups of +5 mobs is probably one of them. But, there are some other ways to use this for 'power leveling' with only minimal help. For example, have a lvl 50 burn-tank friend (not teamed with you) herd a whole, whole buncha guys that are at +6 to your level into a corner, and Mass Confusion the whole lot of them. No aggro risk, after all! After they've done all the damage they're going to do to each other, let the burn tank finish them off. Assuming he's a good herder, you could get XP far faster than a controller with pets could -- the controller with pets could simply not engage a huge 50-mob herd of +5's, because the aggro from even one or two that happened to look the illusion controllers way would kill them.
The Haters: So, give it full aggro, full XP. Balance problem solved.
The Lovers: Nooooooo! Please don't ever give Confusion powers aggro! The non-aggro nature of the powers are exactly what make them so handy in so many situations. Besides, back when Mass Confusion *did* get aggro, it was basically an unused 'insta-suicide' switch, due to the accuracy penalty in the power.
The Haters: Look, I see by your sig that your Mind Controller is only level 42. I don't mean to be rude, but you simply don't have the experience that I do at level 44. Until you get to level 44 like me, I don't this your opinion hold much merit.
The Lovers: Dude, c'mon -- you don't even *have* a Mind Controller in your sig. Why don't you go back to the blaster boards where you belong, Troll!
The Haters: Yeah, whatever. I'm not trolling -- my main, in my sig, is a lvl 50 Earth Controller, and I have a lvl 39 Mind alt -- I just don't put every single alt in my sig. Why don't you stop making assumptions? Or, are you just too much of a [censored].
CuppaJo: I think we're done here -- this thread is being locked.
+++++++
The Author's Take: Hey, I think you've all guessed by this point that I'm on the 'Lovers' side on this issue, too. That said, the Haters typically do make one point that I can't dismiss: I think, even if Confusion powers gave 100% XP, that Mind Controllers would probably still not be able to outpace a good Illusion or Fire build in XP/hour, solo. Mobs simply don't have the same damage output as pets -- less accuracy, less attack frequency, and sometimes, less damage. With power-leveling tactics like the burn-tank assistance, then you probably could -- but, anyone with a lvl 50 burn tank friend already has a plethora of power-leveling options if they choose to cheese out, so adding one more onto the stack isn't that much of a big deal.
The being said, I don't think the Confusion powers, as they stand, are severely underpowered. They provide good, solid extra control, and they do improve your soloing speed in terms of XP/hour. Even if they could be bumped up some without becoming 'broken', I don't think they are 'teh gimp' right now, so they don't really need to be bumped up.
The one change I could advocate is scaling the damage credit factor down just a little bit more. If mobs only got, say, 10% credit instead of the 25% credit they currently get, I think we'd have happier faces all 'round. The 'XP penalty' would be pretty negligible in most cases, even solo -- but, you'd still not be able to get risk-free XP. And, hopefully, most of the remaining stigma associated with team use would disappear. (Much of it *did* disappear in the months after the 25% discounting scheme went live -- but there is still some resistance left on pickup teams.) And we know that the switch to 10% would be an easy change for them to make, from previous Statesman statements.
I'm sure even 10% would leave *some* naysayers on this board who still want to see it go to 100% credit, but I think it's a pretty acceptable compromise.
**************
V. Conclusion
**************
Well, I've covered a lot of ground, here. Hopefully I've been pretty objective in my analysis -- but I have no doubt that the spots where I haven't been entirely objective will be immediately and vociferously pointed out by folks who take an interest. Such is the power of Confuse!
But, the other power of Confuse that I've touched on only briefly throughout this guide: it is, hands down, one of the most *fun* powers in the game. If for no other reason than this, everyone should at least give it a try on the test server. Nothing brings out your inner three stooges fan like watching a couple of Tank Slammers go at it with each other. Or, watching a Storm Shaman zap *himself* in the head with a Lightning Storm. Or, watching an Embalmed Vahz blow his entire party to smithereens. Good, good stuff.
So, in conclusion: Confusion powers are good, solid powers. They seldom decrease the speed of leveling, and often make it faster. XP aside, they're usually *better* than a straight-up hold. Mass Confusion can turn the tide of a battle faster than any other power in the game, save maybe Fulcrum Shift.
Take them. Slot them. Love them!
Credits:
A shout out to the following people, who provided everything from helpful suggestions to content that I outright plagarized, as feedback to earlier versions of the guide:
styopa
Screwloose
Sinclair
Zagre
shuyun
Enantiodromos (pretty much all of section II.D.i!)
ClancyClown
The_Kraken
VoodooCompany
Gilidry
Dr_Simian
Seniara
low_drag
I apologise in advance if I'm cluttering your beautifully done guide with my own misunderstaning, but having read your example, I think one of us misunderstands:
S = 3DF
The way I read that in english is, your *search* time can be *three times as long as* your fight time... reduced by a fraction equal to the damage you did.
E.G., if you're doing 33% of the damage, you can spend as long looking for a new fight as the (normal) fight itself would've taken you, and still break even.
If you're doing 1% of the damage, you hadn't better spend more than 3% of the duration of a normal fight looking for the next fight, if you want to break even.
It wouldn't at all surprise me if I was the one who ultimately didn't understand what he found, but check it over again.
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
I thought I'd add another useful tactic. I have an illusion/storm controller, so my experience is with Deceive. You've mentioned that confusing an opponent does not draw any enemy aggro. This can be taken to the next level though; attacking a confused enemy does not draw aggro from the rest of the enemies either.
So you can deceive an enemy, and you and your teammates can hammer on that one enemy with single-target attacks without taking any incoming fire from his friends. What happens is that once the deceived enemy is killed, that usually wakes up the rest of the group and aggros them. But it lets you completely eliminate one enemy before the fight begins.
My guess is that the confused enemy reverts back to "enemy status" before the "death cry" goes off, alerting its friends. Limited usefulness, but something to be aware of.
That's VERY interesting, RedNile!
Couldn't you then confuse a boss, then have a grav controller wormhole the boss to your party with no risk of annoying the entire spawn? It would be a slow tactic but it should work. It sounds like a good thing to use if you need to clear some bosses out from around an AV.
Teleport Foe could be used, too, though only against minions and maybe LTs. If you have a Kheldian heavy group, it might be a good tactic to pull on Quantums.
I have read through your guide a few times Cforce, and I was just quietly admiring it when I remembered how much it meant to me when people came and said my guide was good. So, here I am, showing up to tell you that you have produced another towering work from the mind controller community, a work of steadiness and intellect, something we can all be proud of. Good work, you make me proud to be a mind controller.
Hedon
[ QUOTE ]
It wouldn't at all surprise me if I was the one who ultimately didn't understand what he found, but check it over again.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure we're both on the same page, although I think you're (unsurprisingly) phrasing the examples in a way that makes much more sense intuitively.
Whereas, you're saying:
'If you average 10% damage using confuse, your search time better be less than 0.3 (or, 3*10%) times your non-confuse fight time.'
My example was:
'If you average 10% damage using confuse, you should only use confuse if your average non-confuse fight time is more than 3.33 (or, 1/0.3) times your search time.'
We're both saying the same thing, in the end: you're just phrasing it as 'keep your downtime under this factor times your non-confuse uptime', and I was more coming at it as, 'only use confuse if your non-confuse uptime is more than this factor times your downtime'. So, in my examples I was making a leap I shouldn't have without the corresponding math step, which was to give my examples of your equation as:
F=S/3D
But, I'm 95% certain we're both saying the same thing.
(Hoping not to have to eat my words.)
[ QUOTE ]
I thought I'd add another useful tactic. I have an illusion/storm controller, so my experience is with Deceive. You've mentioned that confusing an opponent does not draw any enemy aggro. This can be taken to the next level though; attacking a confused enemy does not draw aggro from the rest of the enemies either.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hm. I didn't know this at all, and in the process of testing it out myself, found out something very interesting -- MC Confuse and Ill Deceive *are* a little bit different. I tried this first using Confuse with my Mind Controller, and it didn't work -- I got aggro right away. But, then I tried it with my low-level Illusion controller, and lo and behold: it worked! I guess Deceive and Confuse are slightly different. Veeery interesting.
Oh really...
Wow. That is extremely interesting... That kind of puts a potential damper into my argument that they're all the same effect, and thus even if full XP didn't overpower Mass Confusion, it would overpower Deceive and Confuse...
Turns out, I have to eat my words. As other posters in the Controller forum have pointed out, you *can* do this trick with Confuse as well -- just not with something like Levitate. While damage on a confused target doesn't create aggro, apparently knockup does.
Still, a new lesson learned that you can damage a confused target without creating aggro. That's pretty slick.
Awesome guide. However, there's one other Confuse power you left out.
Arctic Air.
I was reading through this and thinking... "Man, I wish I had kept my ill controller to play with deceive more... all I have is this crappy low-level ice controller... with... AA.. Hmm..."
He's only level 6 at the moment, but I'm playing him as a part of a themed trio of characters (Ice tanker, controller, blaster. Winter Bastion, Winter Magus (me), and Winter Rage, look for us on Virtue! :P). I'm getting AA at level 10 and plan to eventually six-slot it, four for Confuse. Any ice controllers with AA that have some tips and tactics on it?
Or maybe you could go do some research on that and include in your guide so I don't have to work on it! :P
Virtue Server
Red Fox Bravo - DM/Invul Scrapper
Tsynth - DB/WP Stalker
Stalker Dual Blades/Willpower Guide
The Quick and Dirty Guide to Dual Pistols
check out the big brain on cforce,you guys got lots of brain juice...got some xtre for sell? 
i also wanted to get a confirmation on what i learned from a confuse fav moments thread...
it has been said that if you deceive a mob,say a herder,before it drops its emulator, then the emulator is under your control...havent had the chance to confirm this,but wanted to put that out there
nice info as well there red 
concerning rednile's discovery, if a tanker taunted,does that break the confused mobs...confusion?
so does a single confused mob that gets taunted from a tanker in range become unconfused?
This guide has some great tactic suggestions for using confusion! Thank you!
I did have a question about the section below. With my level 24 illusion controller, deceived sorcerers would continue to heal other villains. Does confuse work differently in this aspect too?
[ QUOTE ]
- Confuse defender-oriented mobs first: if given the option, put the highest priority on defender-oriented mobs (Tsoo Sorcerors, Shamans, etc.). Having them switch sides with their buffs/debuffs will often be a real tide-turner in the battle. Other mobs also have interesting 'side benefits'. Here's a quick list of some of the best mobs to confuse for 'side benefits':
Embalmed Vahz - A confused Embalmed will blow up and damage the vahz around them while not damaging you or your allies.
Soul Mages - When below 1/4 health, they will blow up damaging the CoT around them, but not you or your allies.
Sorcs, Medics, Shaman and other Buffers - Will buff you and your team rather than their team.
Communication Officers, Devoured and other Summoners, including portals - All summoned villians will arrive confused until the initial confuse on the summoner wears off.
Proximity-oriented bombs - Will detonate themselves when they're confused.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I did have a question about the section below. With my level 24 illusion controller, deceived sorcerers would continue to heal other villains. Does confuse work differently in this aspect too?
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe the effects of Confuse on buffing enemies has recently been fixed by the devs. Certainly, when I was fighting Tsoo a week or two ago with my illusionist, the confused Sorcerors were healing *her* when she got hurt. With their heals *and* storm powers, that was definitely good value for a dollar...
A probably under-appreciated aspect of confuse/decieve is that it is an ideal tool for mezing bosses:
Simply stack confuse on the boss. Confuse does not draw aggro, so the boss will not attack even if it fails. Once the boss is solidly confused you can let him clear out the room for you, or use one of the usual tactics for doing so.
Finally, because of the long base duration compared to holds, it's much easier to stack decieves. It's possible for a soloing ill/rad or mind/rad to stack up to 8 decieves, starting at level 22, by running perma AM, perma Hasten, and six-slotting Decieve for duration, although that may not be optimal slotting in practice. Depending on where the mez break is for AV's this may well be a significant aspect of the power.
[ QUOTE ]
Simply stack confuse on the boss. Confuse does not draw aggro, so the boss will not attack even if it fails. Once the boss is solidly confused you can let him clear out the room for you, or use one of the usual tactics for doing so.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll second that - my pre-Phantasm method for handling Devoured bosses was to stack Deceive on him and then alternate spectral wounds with re-stacking deceive while he popped around the room slapping his minions around (and also launching swarms which in turn attacked him - and he they). Rinse, wash and repeat until he dies, then fall back while his minions come and sic the PA on them, which continuing with SW and holds. Worked like a charm every time.
Another very interesting thing about deceive - it will stack with Blind as a hold. If I hit with Deceive on a boss, then cast Blind, it will hold. I assume that Deceive must have a mag 1 hold component, or something equivalent. This happens every time (assuming blind hits), which leads me to believe that it is an actual "hold mag lowering" of the boss, not one of the rare critical holds. This seems at odds with the stacking rules - I'd like to hear from any other Ill/* controllers who have had similar experiences with using Deceive and Blind (and if any devs are reading this and it's unintended, please ignore this post, as the stacking is insanely useful).
I'd also like to add a hearty "Thank You" to cforce for one of the most useful and thoughful player guides I've had the pleasure to read.
I like this guide a lot, too. As an Illusion/Kin Scraptroller that depends on Decieve to solo, I use it a lot, and I could certainly verify that I was getting more XP/hour with it than without it.
Interestingly enough, though, you reached the exact opposite conclusion than I did after doing the mathematics, and I realize that I may have to rethink my strategy. Because the amount of XP you get as your "share" of what was done increases as the percentage of the damage that you do increases, I assumed that the best strategy was to maximize your damage. That is, by ensuring that you do at least 80% of the damage to all targets, you should get nearly 100% of the experience. For this reason, I usually Deceived the Minions first, because they would do less damage to the Boss than if I Decieved him, and he damaged them.
Your conclusion, though, and it seems to be the right one, is that you get more XP over time by doing less of the damage. Even though you are losing more XP overall, you are defeating your enemies faster, and thus gaining XP at a faster rate. I hadn't thought of this, but it may be by trying to make my Controller, Joe Everyman, more Scrapper-like, I have gone too far in trying to conserve the XP.
I do suspect, however, that there is a break-even point, that you may not have covered in your analysis. I have no trouble going from fight to fight with Joe, and downtime is really not a big issue. I also take on opponents closer to my level, rather than relying on reds or oranges to do max damage. Plus, spawns of foes are a finite resource, and at some point you are wasting XP that you would have ordinarily been able to collect. This is particularly the case with missions, and doing more damage personally would probably allow you to get more XP overall for them, with only a slight increase in time. So the balance point may be somewhere in between.
I will certainly apply many of these ideas to my strategies, however. I've built Joe to be very strong in melee, with Tough as a good defense, and Blind. Although I agree with your assesment that it is often better to have the Minions help you take down the Boss, particularly when it is not always safe to attack the Boss without "softening him up" first, I may decide to try using Lieutenants more often, to speed up the fight time.
If nothing else, your guide should enable me to use Decieve more efficiently, and get the best possible XP for the amount of time I spend in the fight. You obviously have Terrify as a powerful attack, and slot it for damage, so my build is probably similar in that it is meant to do damage. He's not quite at the level where I can report how well his build solos, but he's been a blast to play so far. (And exploding Cadavers is one of my favorite tricks. )
Gorgeous! This guide makes me want to play my Controller more!
Contents
I. Introduction
II. The Math
..A. Basic Formula
..B. Alternate Interpretations
....i. Mob Damage Credit
....ii. XP acceleration
..C. XP/time vs. XP/mob
..D. Field Results
....i. Downtime
....ii. Animation
....iii. The One That Got Away
....iv. Results
III. The Tactics
..A. General Tactics
..B. Solo Tactics
..C. Team Tactics
IV. The Debates
..A. Mass Confusion vs. Pet Powers
..B. 100% XP
V. Conclusion
****************
I. Introduction
****************
It seems every 3-4 weeks, a new thread about Confusion powers percolates up to the top of the Controller message board. These threads almost always look the same -- they start out with an innocent question, get some misleading numbers posted in the middle, and have devolved to a semi-flame war by the end. This must stop! I'm sick of reading the same comments over and over again! It's high time all this information about Confuse mechanics was codified and saved.
Enter the Guide to Confusion Powers! My goals will be:
a) to set all of the *facts* straight about the way confuse powers work, starting with an in-depth look at the formula
b) provide new players with some advice about how to get the best use out of the powers
c) clearly state the positions on both sides of frequent debates, objectively
d) restrict my subjective opinions to clearly marked sections of the guide
About the Author:
The author is a confessed alt-aholic. At the time of writing, my main is a level 35 MC/Storm. I also have a Ill/Storm (lvl 10) that I leveled up enough to play around with Deceive, but much of my personal experience is very Mind-centric. I've got about 200 levels total distributed over all of my alts -- including a level 50 Spines/Regen scrapper. Yep -- I've got an alt that's a higher level than my main! He's still an alt in my book, because I've invested many more hours in my lvl 35 Mind/Storm (about 400 hours, at last check) than I did in my lvl 50 Spines/Regen (a hair under 200 hours) -- he was just an experiment in solo-herding, mostly so I could say, 'yep, I know what a fast solo build feels like, and I *still* like soloing with my Mind Controller better'.
I spend probably 50% of my playtime solo, 30% super-group, and maybe 20% pickup group.
Also, I'm a professional software developer, and a game-design 'hobbyist' (heavy dose of higher math and game theory in college, combined with heavy imaginary tape around the bridge of my glasses) -- so I often strongly sympathize with the plight of the development team trying to keep everyone happy, 100% of the time.
This guide is, to some degree, a group effort. Recognizing that I'm not the most authoritative source since I'm not a level 50, I posted an early draft on the Controller message board to solicit feedback from the community in general. I've incorporated that feedback into this guide. Thanks to all those who contributed!
So, without any further ado, I give you the part I'm pretty good at getting all nerded out about: The Math!