Devs please confirm: -30% to Kheldians not removed

Nibb_Nibb · 01-08-2005 09:29 AM

I'm fairly sure we all know the answer to this, but has the -30% to the Kheldians resistance and damage been removed or not?

If it hasn't been removed, will it be removed and the hit points lowered as discussed in the Test Forums to balance out the archtype?

Thanks in advance.

Statesman_NA · 01-08-2005 03:31 PM

No, it hasn't been removed on Live yet. The changes are in a Build in the pipeline.

Dallus · 01-08-2005 03:40 PM

well thats good news for me

Righter · 01-08-2005 03:41 PM

*hug*

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. --- Thomas Jefferson
Formerly known as YFNDBA

Nibb_Nibb · 01-08-2005 03:55 PM

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No, it hasn't been removed on Live yet. The changes are in a Build in the pipeline.

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USA! USA! USA! USA!

Plasma · 01-08-2005 04:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No, it hasn't been removed on Live yet. The changes are in a Build in the pipeline.

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How about the damage penalty?

And I'm not clear on this. Right now:

Kheldian human: -30% resist, -30% damage

But is that -30% damage off blaster damage or -30% off 'standard' damage?

Is nova form like an elimination of the -30% and then getting the 60% bonus that blasters get?

I wish investigating the way to play this AT didn't involve weeks worth of math research.

pandesal6 · 01-08-2005 04:54 PM

Food for thought. If they elimate the -30 penalty in human form and lower hit points down, the lower hp is going to effect our Nova and Dwarf play(since our shapeshifted forms dont have the -30 penalty, but all forms share the hp) in a negative manner, right?

OVZeshin_NA · 01-08-2005 05:36 PM

If solo EAP is -30% stuff and teamed (3+) EAT is 0% or more, I don't see why solo EAP should change anything. EAPs are for teaming, not solopowerleveling.

Plasma · 01-08-2005 05:56 PM

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If solo EAP is -30% stuff and teamed (3+) EAT is 0% or more, I don't see why solo EAP should change anything. EAPs are for teaming, not solopowerleveling.

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Soloing != Powerlevelling.

Xanatos · 01-08-2005 06:56 PM

Have the grouping benefits not come into play until there are 3 or more people. But still remove the -30% penalties that are hurting the archetype.

Chrondeath · 01-08-2005 07:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If solo EAP is -30% stuff and teamed (3+) EAT is 0% or more, I don't see why solo EAP should change anything. EAPs are for teaming, not solopowerleveling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe the EATs should be gimped for soloing just because....hmm....I don't think I've ever actually seen a reason why they should be gimped for soloing, aside from "because we like teaming."

But that aside, the -30% base damage hurts the (human form) Kheldians pretty bad, even in groups.

The penalty is to base damage (just confirmed this on Test). Level 30 Warshade against a level 1 Hellion; unenhanced Shadow Bolt did 58.09 damage, 72.62 with one Rage inspiration; 72.62 / 58.09 = 1.25, exactly as expected. If the penalty was not to base damage, we would have expected a base damage of (58.09 / .7 = 82.99), and an enhanced damage of (58.09 + .25 * 82.99 = 78.83).

The grouping bonus is NOT to base damage (confirmed this on Test about a month ago; haven't heard of any changes to the Kheldian bonus since then. Here are the numbers).

Say your unpenalized base damage (it's never been clear to me WHAT base number the 30% damage penalty is being applied to) is 100. Your base damage after the Kheldian penalty is 70.

To get up to 100 damage (i.e., to overcome the penalty), you'll need a little more than four teammates of the appropriate AT (70 * 1.4 = 98). It seems to me that's already pushing things a bit, requiring a group of five and at least half your group to be two ATs just to get over the penalty....but don't worry, it gets worse.

Say you've got your human-form attacks slotted with three damage SOs (let's round the total enhancement bonus to 100%). Without the penalty, you'd be doing 200 damage; currently, you're doing 140. You need to gain 60 damage to get over the penalty; that's (60/70 = 85.7%) of your base damage! You're not making it even with a full seven appropriate AT teammates.

The -30% resistance doesn't leave you in quite so bad a boat, I think, because resistance-boosting powers are all additive, not multiplicative. But the damage resistance penalty is being removed; we're not sure about the status of the damage penalty.

Atomic_Shock · 01-09-2005 07:31 AM

I'd rather they not remove the -30%, but "fix" it by making it an always on "effect" like an auto power. That way enhancements, buffs, ISL, can have a larger effect (by being applied to BASE, and not modified dam/res).

Also let's not forget that the decrease in HP, is going to slow the heath regain (as Geko mentioned some time ago).

Phoenix_Lord · 01-10-2005 12:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Food for thought. If they elimate the -30 penalty in human form and lower hit points down, the lower hp is going to effect our Nova and Dwarf play(since our shapeshifted forms dont have the -30 penalty, but all forms share the hp) in a negative manner, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, and posted similar concerns in the Dev Corner

Also, lowered HP will make us even more susceptible to Quantum weapons/Voids. Not a good thing as these guys are almost too much as they are.

The_Starfist · 01-10-2005 10:59 AM

I don't know what goes on with the Kheldan stuff, I haven't been keeping up because I'm a long way from there. However, I have teamed with them twice and actually felt SORRY for them. There were two Kheldan's in our group of 6... one was 18 and the other 20. It was a Skyraider mission, with level 20s and they were absolutely getting [censored]. I was playing an empathy defender and spent all my time spamming heals at them in ALL their forms. They ran in circles, broke aggro, maneuvered and it was to no avail.... the lower level one died 4 times and the other guy being at the mission level died twice. This was a balanced team too, with a defender, controller, scrapper, and a tank. If that wasn't bad enough, those void guys hidden in the mobs were like instant death.

For the record, to ME as an outside observer.... THAT DID NOT LOOK LIKE FUN. That looked like frustration. I've been in teams at -4 and -5 to the mission level and it wasn't hard to stay alive. I swear it seemed that if an enemy even LOOKED at either of them they were at half health.

jnight · 01-10-2005 04:28 PM

Oh thank you for considering removing it. I would have hated to use the forms (nova/dwarf) exclusively just to be able to make level.

Robotech_Master · 02-04-2005 03:41 PM

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No, it hasn't been removed on Live yet. The changes are in a Build in the pipeline.

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I don't think we've seen this get removed yet, even with all the other changes made by recent patches, and it's been almost a month. Is it coming any time soon?