Spines/DA: The Dust Bunny's AoE Guide
By
Captain_Amazing_NA,
Posted on: 2004-10-07 04:36 in Player Guides
Hmm, I've been inspired to start a Spines/DA ever since I dusted off my old claw/DA scrapper and enjoyed it's AoE damage and then, saw how impressive a spines scrapper is at lvl 43. So I decided to combine the 2 
Great guide! Anyway, here's my build.
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Ranged : Spines
Secondary Powers - Support : Dark Armor
Slot[1] Level 1 : Dark Embrace
Slot[2] Level 1 : Lunge
Slot[3] Level 2 : Spine Burst
Slot[4] Level 4 : Barb Swipe
Slot[5] Level 6 : Death Shroud
Slot[6] Level 8 : Impale <- I am currently here.
Slot[7] Level 10 : Obsidian Shield
Slot[8] Level 12 : Combat Jumping
Slot[9] Level 14 : Hurdle
Slot[10] Level 16 : Build Up
Slot[11] Level 18 : Health
Slot[12] Level 20 : Stamina
Slot[13] Level 22 : Quills
Slot[14] Level 24 : Cloak of Darkness
Slot[15] Level 26 : Ripper
Slot[16] Level 28 : Super Jump
Slot[17] Level 30 : Murky Cloud
Slot[18] Level 32 : Dark Regeneration
Slot[19] Level 35 : Quill Throwing
Slot[20] Level 38 : Cloak of Fear
Slot[21] Level 41 : Oppressive Gloom
Slot[22] Level 44 : Petrifying Gaze
Slot[23] Level 47 : Torrent
Slot[24] Level 49 : Tenebrous Tentacles
Yeah, i know i took both barb swipe and lunge I just like barb swipe's quick recharge rate and using it together with lunge means that i haev a good damage output in these early levels. If I find that I don't need it later, I'll respec it out and put Superjump and Buildup earlier.
Anyway, I took superjump quite late cos i'm hoping that i can depend on hurdle+combat jumping to get around. My SG mate at the same level has tp so i can prob get some teleporting around .
About the ancillary powers, I know conserve power is great and everyone's raving about it but I just can't explain being able to shoot energy torrents et al. Dark MAstery is more in character for me.
So, any thoughts, flames, constructive criticisms? All would be appreciated (except maybe the flames, heh)
Edit: Moved CoD up since I realise that I have no defense at all. Is Dark Regen at lvl 32 viable? I can always stock up on respites till then
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Yeah, i know i took both barb swipe and lunge I just like barb swipe's quick recharge rate and using it together with lunge means that i haev a good damage output in these early levels. If I find that I don't need it later, I'll respec it out and put Superjump and Buildup earlier.
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Nowt wrong with taking both Barb and Lunge, especially if you're not taking the boxing/tough route (which isn't essential for post Update 3 DAs thank goodness.) They'll keep you entertained while DS/Quills whittle away and you wait for Spine Burst to recharge for the coupe de grace.
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Anyway, I took superjump quite late cos i'm hoping that i can depend on hurdle+combat jumping to get around. My SG mate at the same level has tp so i can prob get some teleporting around.
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Heh when you take your travel power is up to you, I like mine asap cause I hate travelling from A to B slowly. Someone able to TP you about helps reduce the need for an early travel power a lot.
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About the ancillary powers, I know conserve power is great and everyone's raving about it but I just can't explain being able to shoot energy torrents et al. Dark MAstery is more in character for me.
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Flavour first, mechanics second. That's always the way to do it. I advise on a purely mechanical point of view Body Mastery for Conserve Power. But Obviously Dark Mastery is far, far cooler and more thematic. Plus it has some strong powers too. I see no problems in picking it.
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Edit: Moved CoD up since I realise that I have no defense at all. Is Dark Regen at lvl 32 viable? I can always stock up on respites till then
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It's a bit late, I'd take it at 30 if I can and get Throw Spines at 32. Try pushing Ripper back till after Throw Spines and moving the other powers up/about a bit. You have Impale, Lunge and Barb Swipe so you should be ok for single targets for quite a while.
Voila, no flames. But then Dust Bunnies aren't very flame retardant so we try to avoid fire. 
Joking aside there's not a lot wrong with your choices. It's certainly a playable set of power picks. All I'd try and do is squeeze in Dark Regen a bit earlier. It's awfully good.
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Ranged : Spines
Secondary Powers - Support : Dark Armor
Slot[1] Level 1 : Dark Embrace
Slot[2] Level 1 : Lunge
Slot[3] Level 2 : Spine Burst
Slot[4] Level 4 : Barb Swipe
Slot[5] Level 6 : Death Shroud
Slot[6] Level 8 : Impale
Slot[7] Level 10 : Obsidian Shield
Slot[8] Level 12 : Hurdle
Slot[9] Level 14 : Combat Jumping
Slot[10] Level 16 : Build Up
Slot[11] Level 18 : Health
Slot[12] Level 20 : Stamina
Slot[13] Level 22 : Quills
Slot[14] Level 24 : Cloak of Darkness
Slot[15] Level 26 : Super Jump
Slot[16] Level 28 : Dark Regeneration
Slot[17] Level 30 : Murky Cloud
Slot[18] Level 32 : Quill Throwing
Slot[19] Level 35 : Cloak of Fear
Slot[20] Level 38 : Ripper
Slot[21] Level 41 : Oppressive Gloom
Slot[22] Level 44 : Petrifying Gaze
Slot[23] Level 47 : Dark Blast
Slot[24] Level 49 : Tenebrous Tentacles
Thanks for the advice, Romance. Okay, here's an edited version to get Dark Regen earlier. What's the bonus that Build Up gives? I might swap it and Superjump around if I find that my damage doesn't need/benefit from that much of a boost yet.
Edit: Ack! I forgot about Acrobatics! Damn, what should I take out to make space for it? And I realise that I've taken every single power in the primary set except for taunt :P
Actually - I tried out TP on test and it was fine for me for now.
I've still got 3 respecs if I go the (probably smarter) status pro route to take care of immob and knockdown. I might pick up Hover later for air mobility, a TP rest break power, and "sorta" knockdown pro (little flip in the air rather than falling on your back).
I did figure out, thanks to good ol' Hero Planner, a way to:
5 slot Dark Embrace, Death Shroud, Spine Burst, Quills, Impale, and 6-slot Stamina, by moving around where I took the powers some.
Ripper's only 2-slotted at 27.
I really like the new build - now I just wish I'd already gotten Murky Cloud - electric freaks hurt without it. Maybe at 30 if I don't go Cloak of Fear.
Definitely a fun build. With Buildup and Spine Burst, I'm like a mini nova scrapper. Let Quills/Death Shroud get them to 2/3 or half, do Spine Burst - dead minions. Even +2s, and sometimes +3s. I like it. A lot.
Lookin' forward to adding Throw Spines to the mix.
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
@ James Bonnell
Glad that TP is working for you. I love Super Jump so much I end up taking it on all my characters. I despise status effects so I like all of my toons to have as much protection from them as possible. And Throw Spines is a lot of fun, with the fixed scaling toxic damage and Spine Burst you can 2 hit even level minion mobs. (sometimes Quills/DS does a little mop up work though.)
@ de absolutezero
It's a tricky to fit in pool powers as so many powers are essential to the DA scrapper. You want 9 of your DA powers, 3 Fitness powers and optionally Hasten. The honest truth is I don't know, it would probably be a loss from the spines section. Maybe Lunge or Barb Swipe, it depends on the attack cycle. I can't remember if it's Barb, Ripper, Barb, Impale or Lunge, Ripper, Lunge, Impale that works best. The Barb chain is more likely to have some gaps in it.
Sorry I'm not as much help here, I find the build so tight now myself that I'm only taking 1 or 2 EPPs. :\
Right. Thanks for the info anyway. Will probably take lunge out and replace it with acrobatics in the future. Barb Swipe just looks cool and the fast recharge rate/low end cost means i can take out enemies with only a sliver of health quickly without much end loss. (yeah, I could wait for quills/DS to finish em off but what if I miss? whoops) Besides, I like having lots of DoTs
Does adding resistance enhancements to Obsidian Shield help in resisting the hold magnitude or is it only for psi resistance? Ol' Winter Lord still held me when I had OS on 
PS: Seems like when Barb Swipe criticals, it only applies to the last hit aka. "You finish off XX with YY lethal damage from your Barb Swipe." Is this true or is the critical hit an accumulation of all the DoTs ?
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Does adding resistance enhancements to Obsidian Shield help in resisting the hold magnitude or is it only for psi resistance? Ol' Winter Lord still held me when I had OS on
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Just the psi res gets increased I'm afraid. But the magnitude of OS is of a decent level and had a boost before christmas time. OS is something you don't need to slot till the approach to the 40s. And despite what Invun players would have you believe psi attacks are still not that common.
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PS: Seems like when Barb Swipe criticals, it only applies to the last hit aka. "You finish off XX with YY lethal damage from your Barb Swipe." Is this true or is the critical hit an accumulation of all the DoTs ?
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The critical hit with barb swipe works like all multiple hit attacks. It's a single extra hit that doubles the amount of damage you deal. I think if you look at it next time it crits and compare that to a normal attack from it that should show up. It's not as noticeable with lower damage multi-hit attacks.
Thanks for your help! Here's hoping that I can finally get an alt past lvl 15 Any plans to update the Dust Bunny with regard to Issue 3? Am curious to see your plans for a post-I3 Dust Bunny with the stacking armours, cowering fear etc and how it'd differ from your current one.
Yeah, I have plans to update to I3. I've been chatting in PM to Screwloose about his thoughts as a lvl 50 Spines Dust Bunny and I'm still collecting data.
My intital respec turned out a lot better than I thought it would so I have a build I can post. Right now I'm just looking at the EPPS and trying to weigh up the advantages of each. Again Screws provided a lot of helpful info there.
There will be a version 2.0 out soon. Probably tagged onto this one so I don't have to re-write all the information from the first guide again (well C&P it anyway)
Hiya!
First of all, I want to thank Romance for writing this whole thing up. Now if we could only feed her some obscure and rarely-disturbed corner (you know, the whole "Dust Bunny" thing... the etymology of... the... nevermind), so that she could write up her opinions on Spines/Dark after I3...
I'd like to ask everyone who's had experience with this for help.
I just got to level 28, and was going to pick up Acrobatics. Someone then came and told me that Cloak of Fear is REALLY good and useful and all that, and I started wondering.
Hmm...
it does debuff the mobs' accuracy...
but I'm still getting knocked down...
it would need 6-slots to be fully effective...
Quills + Death Shroud = mobs constantly attack me...
What do you think? Is CoF worth picking up now? At what level?
For your convenience, this is my build, with slotting up to level 40. I'm currently level 28, as yet untrained.
Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Barb Swipe /Acc
Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Level 2 : Spine Burst /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Level 4 : Death Shroud /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Level 6 : Combat Jumping /DefBuf
Level 8 : Build Up /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Level 10 : Obsidian Shield /EndRdx
Level 12 : Hurdle /Jump
Level 14 : Super Jump /Jump
Level 16 : Health /Heal
Level 18 : Quills /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Level 20 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Level 22 : Murky Cloud /EndRdx,DamRes
Level 24 : Impale /Acc,Dmg
Level 26 : Dark Regeneration /Acc,EndRdx,EndRdx
Level 28 : Acrobatics /EndRdx
Level 30 : Cloak Of Darkness /EndRdx,EndRdx,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
Level 32 : Throw Spines /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Level 35 : Cloak Of Fear /EndRdx,EndRdx,Acc,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb
Level 38 : Ripper /Acc
Level 41 : Oppressive Gloom /Empty
Whaddaya think? Thanks in advance for any advice.
VIRTUE
Mister Marbles - Ice/Rad Controller
Glass Titan - Elec/En Blapper
Miss Marbles - Inv/Fire Tanker
Chef Jinglemerry - Spines/DA Scrapper
Blood Envy - WP/DB Tanker
Velvette - WS
My Custom Demos
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Hmm...
it does debuff the mobs' accuracy...
but I'm still getting knocked down...
it would need 6-slots to be fully effective...
Quills + Death Shroud = mobs constantly attack me...
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point 1. Yes it does.
Point 2. KD is annoying but not fatal and if they are Acc Debuffed the mobs are hitting you less therefore KDing you less.
Point 3. Like any power the more slots the better. I find it needs an End and I like to put an Acc in it to increase the chance it will hit on the first pulse. After that as many To Hit Debuff as you can spare, I went with 3.
Point 4. The mobs will be attacking you as much as they normally do, no faster.
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What do you think? Is CoF worth picking up now? At what level?
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I think that you need something on top of the Resistance shields, CoD and Dark Regen to make DA viable in high threat situations.
OpGloom is great for nullifying minions, but does nothing to help you vs LT's or Bosses.
CoF Debuffs everything.
Personally I went for both, because I like having more tools than I could possibly need and then trying them in different combinations in different situations.
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For your convenience, this is my build, with slotting up to level 40. I'm currently level 28, as yet untrained.
Whaddaya think? Thanks in advance for any advice.
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Overall looks prett good, much the same as mine, couple of comments.
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Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
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I'd consider an End reducer in DE. IMHO toggles that you have on all the time are good candicates for End reducers.
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Level 2 : Spine Burst /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
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I went for an extra Dam over the End reducer on this and Throw Spines. Generally I try to pick my fights so that I only need one burst of AE's then some pulses of DS and Quills to KO the minions in a pack of mobs and even with one End reducer the AE's use too much End to be useful vs a single target.
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Level 30 : Cloak Of Darkness /EndRdx,EndRdx,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
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Not sure the seconds End reducer is doing you a lot of good here, but it is a power that I leave on all the time, in fact I use to tell teams that if they could see me I wasn't ready to attack (% .
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Level 41 : Oppressive Gloom /Empty
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Single Acc does well here, I went for a Diso duration as well just for kicks.
regards, Screwloose.
50 Spines Dark Armour Scrapper Justice.
"I am not young enough to know everything."
How to Look Stuff Up Yourself - It's Fun and Easy
Looking for Powers Numbers try City of Data.
For Fraks sake read the Guides and FAQs
Global Chat Channels - Australia
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First of all, I want to thank Romance for writing this whole thing up. Now if we could only feed her some obscure and rarely-disturbed corner (you know, the whole "Dust Bunny" thing... the etymology of... the... nevermind), so that she could write up her opinions on Spines/Dark after I3...
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I'm on it! Gathering hard numbers from various sources right now, and then double and triple checking them. But the maths for CoF confuse me still. 
As soon as my coursework is finished I'll redraft this for I3. And it 'should' then stand for I4 because I'm not convinced that /DA will get any significant PvE changes.
Screws has covered most of the points I'd of put up. I'll just chime in and say I have Quills, DS, CoF and OG with my S/DA. And I switch powers for any given situation depending on my requirements.
Rom have you heard anything yet on the evaluation of DA's end use with end intensive primaries?
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
Absolutely nothing beyond 'We're looking into it'. It seems that Issue 4 is the priority for them atm. I'm going to wait till the end of this month and then gently ask if we could get a statement regarding the DA costs, rooted animations, sounds and status protection holes. Even if it's a 'We're not changing anything' that's better than not knowing.
I sure hope that they do something about the rooted animations and limited status protection. I like to toggle my toggles (err..) on and off during battles and the rooted animations make it tough for me to adapt to situations quickly. And the ack of knockdown and immob protection means that I have to run an extra 2 toggles. Sigh.
On a brighter note, Regina Mortis is now level 29 and she's extremely fun to play. She shines in large groups as that's where she does the most damage. My favourite moment so far was when I jumped into this room full of freaks, with buildup and a red candy, waited a couple of seconds, shot out spine burst to clear practically the entire room then pulled out a newspaper as the stragglers were mopped up. My team got a few chuckles out of that one, hehe.
I also realise that a good tanker backup is quite desirable. Quills+Death Shroud draws lots of aggro so much so hat my nickname is "the Aggro Magnet". With a good tank holding aggro, I can get to work quickly and easily.
Oh yeah, I'm still trying to decide what's good slotting for Dark Regen. Currently I have it at 2 recharge and 1 endrdx which allows me to pop it every few seconds. I think it has roughly the same recharge as impale. Considering putting in another slot but i'm not too sure. Another endrdx would be good whilst an accuracy would be good too. (still remember firing off DR in the middle of some vamps and missing every single one of them )
Anyway, looking forward to your update
I run triple End redux plus Conserve Power in my S/DAer and that's still not enough at times. Those times mostly being that horrible period where CP is down. I'm thinking I'll have to move more End redux into my build, despite having CP.
I'm finalising my own build decisions over this week as I've decided I'll actually finish of hitting 50 now instead of levelling my DM/DA. I should be done levelling by tomorrow (6.5 bubs left as I type this.) Then I'll write up the I3 version and I'll probably have to call it a day in S/DA guides, because the lower game will change a lot and I won't be able to comment on how those changes will effect play.
Plus I'm not convinced I'd want to play S/DA in PvP. It might be quite good fun in the group situations, but you deal so much damage to packed groups of things that people would be best advised killing you quickly or scattering. Hmm is that a place where Soul Transfer might come into it's own? 
Anyway if I've not written something up by the end of next week, I'll need telling off.
Heh. I kinda like to think of myself as a "fear tanker".
But then, I have a dark/elec with Fearsome Stare, and a fire/axe tank.
My spine/dark definitely can't take the same beating as my fire/axe tank (except, of course, vs psi)... but I often find myself 'tanking', although not, per se, necessarily holding/managing agro.
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
Nice guide. I just hit 29th with my Spines/DA scrapper. I find I don't use my AoE effects enough. I am usually solo, so I put in Teleport Foe in my teens. With recent changes to that power, I can pull pretty much all day and at great distances for single fights. When I do happen to grab the whole group, Cloak of Fear keeps the rest of them trembling until I can deal with them. Trying to get a respec successfully finished. I will try to incorporate more slots to AoE's. I currently have Lunge & Impale with 6 slots, so I can switch those slots to Spine Burst & Death Shroud. In order to get travel power Super Speed, I passed on Barb Swipe and subbed Flurry (same attack w/o the poison). Hopefully with some tweaks to powers, Endurance will not be my number one enemy.
Any spines/DA gurus out there care to update this for i4? Regardless of 'gimp' status, I am going to roll a S/DA scrapper for the AoE love, but would like to know what you guys think of the i4 changes effect some of the base builds.
Thanks
The only negative change for Spines DA in I4 was that CoF has been seriously neutered.
It now has a base hit chance of 50%, which means you need some serious +Acc on it to give you a decent chance of getting good coverage of the nearby mobs, which cuts down the slots available for reducing the End cost or enhancing its Fear and Debuff effects.
Since CoF was the only thing that gave DA scrappers any sort of parity with other secondaries at the higher levels I dont really see anything in the powerset that makes up for it.
In a way I feel I was better off pre I3 when even tho the Res shield didnt stack I could at least get a solid reliable Acc debuff on Bosses and I could neutralise minions with OpGloom. Now I would have sub par resistances that cost me a lot of End and the choice of running a high End toggle that gives me a lower Debuff (less slots of Debuff Enh) not as dependably.
I dont disagree with the Devs assessment that Fear had been improved beyond its intended strength and that Cloak of Fear might have therefore been significantly stronger than intended, but since it was pretty much the only thing keeping DAs afloat they havent left us with much.
Other changes were all buffs and included in such a way that they were added to powers that you would pretty much take any way. Ob Shield got res to Fear. Clock of Darkness got res to Perception and Immobilise. Murky Cloud got res to End drain.
Also Statesmans comments after the Scrapper testing strongly suggest that Scrappers have more balancing to look forward to, so I suspect that some people are holding off doing major rewrites of guides until we see a little more of what that might be about.
Regards, Screwloose.
I am not young enough to know everything.
How to Look Stuff Up Yourself - It's Fun and Easy
Looking for Powers Numbers try City of Data.
For Fraks sake read the Guides and FAQs
Global Chat Channels - Australia
Thanks, Screwloose. Exactly what I needed to know. And I was hoping that you would answer personally- your responses are always informative.
Thanks again,
Jeremiah Finn, Virtue Server, Hero Dawn Supergroup
I have a level 15 Spines/DA scrap and I was just wondering if he could still be successful in I5 with all the changes.
Interesting thread. I have a 20 S/DA and Issue 5's endurance reduction alone is very nice. The role of the AoE scrapper is best in teams; soloing is a bit harder and tad more tedious. Street hunting or hunt missions seem better, due to the number of mobs standing on street corners. I highly recommend 6-slotting Death Shroud (1 end reducer, 1 accuracy, 4 damage) and Quills (same enhancing); this is also my formula for my burn tanker's Blazing Aura. Spine Burst is all damage (6). I only use Lunge and Impale for utility attacks so they have like an accuracy and some damage between them.
The most important thing about playing this build is: patience! You do a lot of standing there piling on the DPS on mobs, so be patient! LOL
- Captain Amazing
Spines DA is still going to be good in the I5-verse.
In fact DA got nerfed least of all the Scrapper Secondaries, and the things that got changed most you won't have had access to at level 15 so you will probably never notice.
The increase in damage for Scrappers makes Spines DA's AE damage even more impressive. And the decrease of End costs makes Spines DA a much more comfortable combo to play.
If you are having fun then I would suggest continuing. Keep an eye on the Scrapper forums for info on how people are handling DA, there have been a lot of threads about it over the last 2 weeks.
regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."
How to Look Stuff Up Yourself - It's Fun and Easy
Looking for Powers Numbers try City of Data.
For Fraks sake read the Guides and FAQs
Global Chat Channels - Australia
Yeah, my fire tank has CJ/SJ/Acro/Hurdle, and my kat/regen scrapper has CJ/SJ/Integ/Swift/Hurdle, so I know the value of Hurdle/Acro full well. Hurdle absolutely rocks for SJ - it's about the value of adding an extra Jump SO to it, and faster to boot - almost as fast as unenhanced SS. It's definitely a good power for a jumper.
My two defenders and blaster have SS, and so does my spine/dark currently. I've been purposefully not using Hasten for a while with my spiner just to see if I can live without it.
With fully slotted Death Shroud and Quills, and slotted-up Buildup, I think I can... except when I'm slowed. (Stupid swarms/council freeze rifles/etc). I'm also so far going no-hasten on my kat/regen... while my fire tank just picked it back up, my kinetic couldn't deal without it, and my dark/elec and ar/dev prefer it. I'm certainly not anti-hasten, but there are so many things to slot on this build, as many if not more than my dark/elec (which is VERY tight on slots).
I have, however, been used to my Superspeed, and (if the test server copy tool will cooperate!), want to see if Swift + Sprint is "fast enough" combat ground movement... it's quite fast for my kat/regen. Health is a given.
I'll adjust to however fast it is, I just want to see if I prefer Hurdle for the CJ/SJ boost, or would prefer Sprint + Swift for this toon.
CJ/SJ/Acro certainly is the smart choice for status pro, I'll agree with that... the only reason I'm going to at least try TP on test is that, other than a Warshade, I don't have a toon with it... and the guy who posted in this thread about it made me think "huh, that would be different and interesting".
With about 5 active alts that I cycle regularly... different and interesting is good... and besides, I'm burning the free respec to do this one... I have 3 more I can do.
And with Impale and TP, Immobilization is less of a problem than it would be for some - IIRC you can TP while Immobilized. Knockdown will definitely get to me though - but at least Quills and Death Shroud work even when knocked down.
The 30s and 40s *are* knockdown fest, though, as my fire tank knows only too well.... I'd only be able to fit Acro in at 35/38, but that opens up some slots.
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.