synthozoic

Quite so, where there is something to protest, there will be music to protest it with.

But I don't know if this music would be punk though. Considering the close proximity of the Rouge Isles to the Caribbean, I'd expect this music would be some form of calypso (Long a music of current events and protest.), one the many off-shoots of reggae (Again music long associated with protests.), Cuban jazz and salsa or perhaps something Haitian-flavored.

Considering the highly distinctive culture of the Rogue Isles and the fact it is a kind of global cross-roads, I think they'd invent something very distinctive from the rest of the Caribbean. There'd be influences from Africa, Central America, the colonial powers of Europe (France maybe?) and the United States and this would emerge into a musical genre we haven't heard of here in the real world.

Make up something, is my advice.

Speaking as an Usan and as a fan of Lovecraft's stuff, even though the game map looks nothing like the bays and peninsulas of Rhodes Island--the closest areas I can see that vaguely match are the bays of North or South Kingston or Warwick counties--I've pretty much concluded that it's Primal Earth's version of Providence. Since Lovecraft died a year before the first issue of Superman was published, I really have no idea what he'd think about that.

He was such a reclusive snob though, I guess he wouldn't like his Providence filled with a bunch of crazies in spandex.

Wow! That's awesome! So if we're patient and look towards the rainforest, we can see the Devouring Earth kaiju that the sonic barriers are protecting us from. I'll have to keep an eye out for that!

But getting back to the paranoia on parade, it just might be possible that Cole's government stages the monster tentacles too. But now I'm guessing I'm getting too Nemesis in my metaparanoia nested within paranoia.

I think I kind of agree with this stance.

Many other powerset can be tuned or RP'd as nano or MEMS, metal spines and regen can represent the smart matter of the T-1000 for example, dark blast or poison could represent various MEMS or nanoweapons, etc. etc.

However, in terms of game mechanics, if the powerset Steampunkette proposed behaves in significantly different ways from any another other powerset, then maybe it should be considered seriously.

Oh yes, there is a global computer network but it's probably all a controlled "walled garden" by one or a small group of ISPs and heavily monitored by the state. Any form of decentralization would be discouraged. Unauthorized peer-to-peer file sharing is probably just the start of things that can get you into trouble.

On the plus side there probably isn't much spam, worms, social engineering or other nefarious activities going on. And the bandwidth speeds are probably even faster than ours.

I quite agree that we should look to the zillions of fictional societies for ideas but, I think comparisons to real world examples is also instructive. If only to learn what successful things Cole's society might emulate and what things it would avoid.

Yep, Cole is immortal, survived nuclear detonations in the Korean War and Hamidon Wars and defeated the most powerfu threat Earth has ever known. Kinda hard to ignore that near divine level of power.

And in the CoH background it is fact that magic, psychic energy, spirits and gods (Or beings that claim they are such.) of various kinds exist.

I recall that in the Death of Superman story arc in DC, there was a growing cult that expected him to raise from the dead after his defeat. They later turned out to be right, which only reinforced his mystique. There's probably a lot of similar feeling surrounding Cole that is not as actively discouraged as it is around Prime Earth's Statesman.

Looking to real world examples, Imperial Rome was very eclectic and syncretic about religion except in a few very key ways--which later on caused them some trouble with the Jews in Palestine and later still with the Christians. I think Cole's state would follow the historical example of Rome or Imperial China--as long as citizens follow the laws and their spiritual practices don't contradict the laws, what you believe is your business.

Anyway, propaganda efforts to demonize and mythologize Hamidon would probably strongly encouraged. This is doesn't directly deify Cole but it might do so indirectly. (How Machiavellian!)

I think that the state would be avoid discussing the subject at all. Previous autocratic or totalitarian regimes would neither be praised or vilified. There'd be a curious omission of the subject entirely. The functionaries that control the media would not want to give people any form of historical grounding. That's too risky.

This might be easy to do. Who knows how many historical records were lost in the chaos of the Hamidon Wars?

I think the Ministry of Information would spend most of its time demonizing the Resistance and Hamidon rather than invoking past history, even if fictionalized history. This keeps the fear level high, which is good for control, and keeps the masses focused.

I agree that humanity has been scaled back to the low tens of millions but the impression I get from the bios and history on the GR site is that there are other regions elsewhere in the world that were restored and brought under control. Cole's empire is global even if all the game action takes place in imperial capital, Nova Praetoria.

My guess is yes, there is physical money. In the chaos that followed the Hamidon, people would be forced to fall back to barter and, it would take decades to recover from that. It may be that Cole's global state hasn't yet restored or advanced the global economy to point were it's entirely digital. I think it really depends on what the Imperial State thinks is easier to regulate.

I think it also depends on how extensive the damage from the Hamidon War was. How can people trust dollars, yuan or euros if there there is no more USA, China or EU?

Cole probably issued new currency notes--perhaps called Imperial Dollars or Imperial Marks or Nova Francs or whatever--in the efforts to restore a global banking system again. Cole's state also seems a lot more friendly to a quasi-fascistic state managed capitalism or syndicalism than an attempt to impose pure command economy based on complete socialism.

I think Cole's economy is a lot more like Singapore or modern China than China under Mao or the Soviet Union.

I don't think that's a proper interpretation of Fahrenheit 451. Fahrenheit 451 and 1984 plainly state that there'd be lots and lots of reality TV.

Why? Because such banal entertainment entrances the masses, distracts them with the melodrama of personal theater as opposed to global problems. It carries no deep political or philosophical messages. Julia, one of the main characters in 1984, worked in Minitru maintaining simple computers that randomly generated plots for cheap, lurid novels. The proles never realized they were reading the kaleidoscopes of the same thing over and over.

This describes reality TV to a tee.

The premise of Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent is that it's easy to present the illusion of diversity of media without challenging the powers that be. There'd be plenty of TV and radio, plenty of sports, plenty soaps on the tube and so on. Most people wouldn't think deeply enough to question it. They'd take a page from Murdoch's or Hearst's playbook.

But there'd be no Internet. That's for damn sure.

Probably lots of mostly abstract video games though. (Sorry, it had to be said.)

PacMan and Bejeweled are okay. America's Army might be okay too--since it's designed to be a propaganda and recruitment tool--but there is a risk that people might sympathize with the enemy being shown. Bioshock is definitely not okay.

Police states love sports! Rome had the Coliseum. The Soviets build endless numbers of sports stadiums and complexes. Mao and Pol Pot were big on state sponsored sporting events of all kinds. So were Popa Doc, the Shah and Idi Amin. Or just watch "Triumph of the Will."

Sports, like reality television, distracts us with irrelevant drama and theater. My guess is Cole would have lots of pro-wrestling style staged fights between various superhumans. Or soccer matches between teams of speedsters. But there'd be no "Running Man" style execution programs on TV--too risky. There must be no chance of interest or sympathy for enemies of the state.

Are we sure that Nova Praetoria is all that there is? There might be other city states or even larger territories that Cole's Imperial forces managed to restore and take control of. What has Earth's population been reduced to? What does game canon say the population is?

Actaully I'd think that Cole's state is probably very natalist. Or it alternates between birth control and natalism in a complex and carefully controlled way. There'd probably be propaganda about reclaiming the "Lost Earth" or doing your part to grow the economy with more larval workers and consumers--and soldiers. Or there might propaganda the other way.

It really depends on how important it is the Imperial State to have a population in the billions again.

The stuff in Neutropolis aside, it might be that Cole's state is very pro-green and might think that Earth's population is enough, provided that everyone, globally, has about the same standard of living.

On another hand, Cole may want to have control over heroes whose powers derive from mutation. He'd probably encourage mutants to register and have kids. There might even be some dark science projects to intentionally grow and raise mutants.

A good example to think of here is probably Singapore.

I think the Imperial State would probably be smart in avoiding the failures of earlier police states by persecuting and repressing stuff like homosexuality. This is easily rationalized. People who are not breeders can still serve the public, perhaps in ways greater than just merely having kids ever could. Why waste police time and resources on something they know to be largely irrelevant to the functioning of a perfect society?

See, that's the scary part. Cole and his crew have the benefit of history. They know all the reasons why the Soviets, Italy's Fascists, Marcos, Pinochet, etc. etc. failed. They may really want to build a perfect state and are willing to wait and be very subtle indeed to achieve that goal.

Almost certainly. Yes, even after the massive die-back of the Hamidon War.

However, in an effort to homogenize and create a true global culture and to capitalize on the global spirit of humanity fighting off a common enemy, steady and patient efforts to favor only one language, probably English would be supported.

Other languages wouldn't be repressed insofar as they are not used to foment reaction against the State. English would be declared the official language of Earth. All educational institutions would only use English. Literature in other languages would probably be taxed if it's not actively subversive and destroyed if it was. All economic institutions would be required to only use English. All official and governmental business would be conducted in English and so on. Informal institutions like schools would to teach other languages wouldn't be repressed but would be taxed and subjected to benign neglect.

It would probably an awful world to live in if you were a Latin scholar or wanted to restore lost Native American languages.

I think Cole's state would scrupulously avoid having its repression take on an ethnic character. A sort of melting pot mentality would be encouraged all the while forces that would encourage diversity would be neglected and left to wither away with older generations.

===

I don't know if Cole's state would be entirely against religion either. They'd probably be very much in favor of the caesaropapism of some Christian churches or the State Shintoist practices of Tojo's Imperial Japan. The state would probably be very friendly with the elites of large established religions (Quietly assassinating those that don't cooperate.). Humanity is predisposed to inventing new religions all the time, these aborning cults would be watched closely. (Psychic police makes this pretty easy actually.)

You'd have a kind of freedom of conscience but there would be clear limits. If your religion causes you to question certain state practices, sorry, you're not long for Cole's Earth.

I think it would be an uneasy and complicated truce. Cole wants to shape humanity into something perfect, yet he also wants to maintain control in the present. Repressing a bunch religious dissenters would be counterproductive in the long run if most of what they say is harmless.

Or maybe Cole is more subtle than we give him credit for. Maybe he thinks diversity is a good thing, within broad limits. Maybe he and his clique are just trying to experiment to slowly perfect a very subtle and perfect form of control over the diverse and quivering mass of craziness that is humanity.

Maybe all the obvious and heavy handed attempts at control in the present city are just them slowly working the bugs out.

Doooooom.

Look, never say never.

Do you know how many nuclear power plants China plans to build to reduce its coal usage by 2050? More than 300. That's almost equal to all the nuclear power plants in the entire world presently. The Chinese are dead set on raising their standard of living and they realize there simply is no other way for them to do that except to go green. It's either that or doom the entire planet and themselves to hugely expensive environmental damage. Or just continue to wallow in the poverty of their dirty electrical generation technology forever.

I'm an optimist. They'll do it. And they'll be a shining example to the rest of us.

Yep, there you have it.

Or if the train is put in a continuous loop going around some big circuit of cities and towns, the train's occupancy goes up and down depending on time and demand.

But it doesn't have to be in a loop. The main thing this idea does is eliminate the expense of starting and stopping for intermediate stations along a route, This saves a great deal of energy and time along a route.

It's a clever idea and it's a wonder no one has thought of it before.

In general I agree. And China, lacking a lot of the old infrastructure found in post-industrial countries and the expenses entailed by replacing that old infrastructure, has good opportunity to build new systems that are green right from the start.

Did you know that, by some accounts, China is posed to surpass the US, Japan and Europe as an implementor of green technology? This is just in terms of sheer size but I think it's something we need to pay attention to. Whatever other faults China may have, I have the impression that their leaders realize there is simply no possible way for them to raise their standard of living without being green automatically. All other paths are just too costly or limited.

Oh that's just the start of it. Have you seen their idea for high speed trains that run in a continous loop and never stop at stations? It's brilliant if they can get it to work.

China is vaulting and hurtling into the 21st century and its infrastructure just isn't ready yet. It's suffering from massive growing pains. What started this 9 day jam was the insatiable demand for electricity and the coal burning generators that supply it. To me the story really isn't all that funny but, it is very interesting in terms of technology, infrastructure and China's astoundingly rapid progress--with a lot of pain along the way--to join the post-industrial world.

That and it makes me grateful I ride mass transit.

I think the epic archetypes are more difficult to play as something other than they are because they freighted with costumes or abilities that so obviously link them to their backgrounds. Once a Kheldian goes squiddy, well, you have to explain that. An Archanos soldier that isn't has to then explain how she stole the exoskeleton and so on.

I've only just started to play the epic archetypes and usually I try to stay within canon while building the bio for the character just because it's hard to tune the costumes or abilities in other ways. With the standard archetypes, we have a lot more flexibility.

But when I write stuff here, I try to treat the game mechanics as a very broad limit but this still gives me a nearly infinite amount of room. For example, after I bought the cyborg pack all of my toons can now self-destruct. But that can be interpreted in lots of ways. The mage could break her wand of fireballs. The spy has a bomb surgically implanted in his body. The atomic, pulp era monster could go supercritical and detonate in a tiny fission explosion, etc., etc.

The mystic card buff could be alternately interpreted as drugs that boost performance, as little widgets that improve the efficiency of servos in powered armor or robots and so on. The secondary mutation can also be interpreted. There is room to play around.

This is a clever idea! It gives a reason for the group to exist and mostly sidesteps the legal and sophont rights issues.

Often the origin stories for most robotic and bio-engineered supercritters is that they are unique. They are not mass produced so, you're right, there wouldn't be a lot of easy to obtain spare parts around. It can easily be extended to the biological constructs too. Such creatures might need hard to find chemicals to thrive like arsenic rich compounds or right or left handed protein constructed with amino acids outside the 20 or so that used by Earth life.

I'll include this as a reason for the group to exist. Thanks for the idea!

Right, I wasn't planning to. Everything that is included in the game's background is canon. It's just that the game's time-line of events glosses over key points and doesn't answer a lot of questions so, I think we all have a pretty free hand. If we do, we can always say it was in the parallel universe next door.

Yes, as you say it can lead to all kinds of complicated dynamics. Heroes that mean well but mistrustful. Heroes that mean well but are frankly bigoted. Villains that are otherwise reprehensible but who are, in a twisted way, right in the long run. There is also the internal dynamic in the group as I hinted at earlier.

The group could ultimately split into two groups. One, the more heroic group, that believes that emergent and artificial life should be equal, that diversity is good and that neither should rule over or wipe out the other. And the other, more villainous one, that is plainly a supremacist group believing that since artificial life can evolve and progress much faster than emergent life, it should rule over or wipe out the old order--it's only evolution in action.

This schism would arise over some key event and that could give us the overall plot to the story. Perhaps there could be some point where one faction wants to stop the Clockwork from doing something, while the other views that as oppression.

Additionally, on the subject of superhuman intelligence, there is actual game mechanics to consider here. Since we are all human players in an MMORPG, we really can't play superhumans that are as godlike as Superman, the Silver Surfer, or the Spectre. Level 50s are extremely tough and can eat armies of lower level opponents without breaking a sweat but the game rules put upper limits on what's possible.

Superhuman intelligence, aside from writer's fiat, really can't be represented in such an environment. The behavior of such a creature might simply be impossible to understand or interpret at most times. So I think we can safely ignore this.

Yes, there are probably lots of origin stories like Sylpheed's. Do we ignore these and say it's a settled matter? I'm inclined to believe that laws are still unclear and it's moving forward on a case by case basis.

On the other hand--

--because this seems to be true, robot or bio-engineered creature or not, the moment you cook up a hero or villain with this origin, you're given a license and allowed to patrol the streets. (Although in the Rogue Isles I think its likely that nobody polices this--its pretty much anarchy and rule by ganglord over there.) Or maybe, now that Going Rogue is upon us, other players are ignoring this to say their toons are fugitives and illegally roaming the streets in Emperor Cole's "perfect" state.

Filling in the registration card after starting your new character, is merely a game formality and can be ignored if it doesn't really fit with your conception. You could metagame it and say, that your character isn't officially registered with the PPD or in Recluse's database or something.

There is at least one example of this already: The Clockwork.

And hardly a day goes by without some robot monster from the Rogue Isles showing up to rob banks, slaughter people and run wild in the streets. There might be powerful legal pressure to strongly regulate artificial life in the US and especially Paragon City because of this.

Yes, there could be laws that require robot brains to built in such a way to hardwired slave mentalities. Or something like Bladerunner's replicants where they artificially limit their lifespans and deprive them of memory and experience to make them easier to control

But thing about Paragon City (and the CoX background in general.) is that new heroes with astounding abilities emerge constantly. Some of these heroes are from advanced extraterrestrial societies, some are superhuman geniuses who can build whole new technologies with a month's skull sweat.

This is happening constantly, I think it's very unlikely the legal apparatus is keeping up with all this radical change.

Citadel might be a hero respected and trusted by the ordinary folks of Paragon. But as we well know in the real world people can easily believe mutually contradictory things without batting an eye. These same folks can easily internalize contradiction and say, "Citadel's okay but I just don't trust these durn robots! Clockwork killed my brother 3 years ago. They have to get them off the streets and put them back in the factories building cars for us!"

There are lots of heroes and villains that show up claiming to be nature spirits or deities too. Perhaps these beings are working very hard to return the Earth to a more natural state and view robots and bio-engineered creatures as opposed to that. These divine or semi-divine creatures could have mortal followers working to push society against such creatures.

The point is all these powerful beings, whose very existence promises radical change for society, are emerging constantly so everything is kind of up for grabs. Any one of these changes, the discovery of extraterrestrial intelligence and civilizations, the discovery of alternate histories, the rise of true AI, the emergence of powerful biotechnology would give us radical social change.

But all of these and other changes are all happening at once in Paragon. It's a wonder that things haven't collapsed into total anarchy yet.

So maybe I have a free hand to stick with my original premise?

I assume they do. Some robots might have self-destructs that they voluntarily (Or involuntarily) have installed in them to prevent interrogation.

Well those drones might be of limited intelligence or they might be remotely piloted by AIs or humans that are safe from real harm.

But I think I take your point. The laws might still be in flux. Just because some supers have AL teammates like Citadel, doesn't necessarily mean that the Federal, state or local laws have caught up to all this change yet.

Again, is that a voluntary self-destruct? Or is it something else?

Yes and no. I think it depends on what gets broken. A robot body might be optimized and have some part of its body simplified for easy repair but other parts, especially the brain, will be at least as complicated as human brains and may be just as hard to repair.

But whatever, I'm just brainstorming reasons why such a group would form in the background of Paragon's history.

Is the law clear on the rights and responsibilities of artificial lifeforms with sapience or is it still in flux?

Or can we think up another reason?

One could argue the same for the mutants in Marvel's comics during the 80s. They grew so prolific and established that we, as readers, may have wondered if the discrimination really was all that bad anymore.

I agree it's pretty clear that Paragon's Earth has so many massive changes happening to it, new superheroes arising daily, invasion from other universes every week, whole technologies being invented by supergeniuses every year. It's wonder how the city or the country stays stable in the face off all that massive change. Sort of makes the prospect of artificial life and consciousness small beer.

So maybe the danger against discrimination or repression isn't all that much.

I'm cool with that. I'm really just search for an excuse to explain why such a group with those entrance requirements would form. If you kind folks could think of some good ones, I'll go with your ideas instead. I'm totally open to suggestions.

This is a brainstorming thread.

This is simply not a problem. Quark Zombie is a radioactive corpse animated by a hyperspatial creature called an everettian sidestepper. It only replaces clothes that are damaged beyond usefulness. It's been wearing the same modified lead lined hazmat suit for nearly two years now--no sweat, body oils and completely clean and sterile.

As those who have interacted with the Quark Zombie can attest, it does communicate, often very verbosely. It is almost impossible to understand however due to strange grammar, mathematical notation and very alien thought processes. As such the creature's thoughts on the subject of death are unknown. It doesn't seem to fear death and seems completely unconcerned with causing the death of others.

And it has caused a lot of death--perhaps even death on a cosmic scale.

This one is a mystery but government scientists speculate that the creature feeds on pure noise. For example, it has been seen standing stock still for hours in front of television sets tuned to dead channels. Apparently the white noise and screen snow of the dead channel feed it somehow. Other sources of noise it appears to feed on are radios that have drifted off station, sources of brownian motion, cooling blackbodies and so on.

It doesn't sleep and seems completely unconcerned with personal amenities or comforts. When it has been assigned rooms in the past, these would be mostly stark and empty, only with tools and devices the creature found useful and lots of paper to laser burn its cryptic notes into.

It is completely unknown if the Evrettian Sidestepper has parents or reproduces in any manner similar to human beings. The corpse it currently steers around was of a former high energy physicists, Amanda Wilkerson. Amanda was the first person to have contact with the sidestepper in a series of events that cost her life.

You mean aside from Quark Zombie being a Lovecraftian monster bent on the casual destruction of the entire planet? Not much, I guess.

I have a few friends who still have copies of Amber Diceless. I don't know if they still play. Me, I still do table-top RPGs, I prefer a little crunch myself.

I have a zillion alts so I'll just pick one at random and see where that takes me. Most of my alts are robots or weird aliens so a lot of these "fleshing out" questions wouldn't really work too well. I'll start with a character I just started recently, The Hood Ornament. He calls himself that because when he wears his shiny armor, he sort of looks like car's hood ornament.

Up until the moment he found the magical armor that ruined his life, Kyle Tyler used to share rent with a couple of friends in a grubby brownstone in Skyway. The building doesn't have a laundry room so he has to take his wash to a coin-op just down on the corner.

But now he's on the run from a lot of people who want to kill him and hasn't figured out where to live yet. (I haven't figured that part of his story out yet.)

"Death?! Whoa, whoa, whoa! Who said anything about dying? Dude, I'm 19 and I don't wanna die. I don't even wanna get hurt! My perfect death is resting safe in my bed, with all my friends and great-grandchildren around me at the ripe old age of 120--as long as possible and from natural causes, okay? Just so we're clear. I'm not like all those other spandex lunatics who fly around this complete wack-job of a city. If you're looking for a hero or poetic death, look somewhere else!"

That's easy. Kyle's not quite vegan but he is vegetarian. He did a brief stint as a bike messenger and got addicted to vegan burritos on the job. "Urban food logs" he calls them. Just before he found the magical armor that ruined his life, he was working in a big box store over in Talos. Working there, he could scrape enough together for a daily lunch of Indian buffet.

He hates soft drinks, the carbonation hurts his nose when burping. If he can afford it, he'll do tea or chai but his limited budget prevents from going completely nuts with this.

Last time he saw it, back in his normal life, his bedroom in the shared apartment was a mess with two disassembled bikes, lots of concert ticket stubs thumbtacked to the wall, some band posters, parts and tools all over the floor and one rather small pile of dirty laundry. He'd been meaning to buy a hamper before his life turned upside down.

Now that he's on the run, he's deathly afraid of returning to his apartment for fear of endangering his friends and roomies or revealing to his enemies who he really is.

Kyle's mother and father have always been just a little bit disappointed with Kyle. In school, his report cards, filled with barely passing or failing grades, always read, "Achievement seems to be below ability." Teachers would often inform his parents that he was actually quite intelligent, just completely unmotivated and unfocused.

His dad in particular feels rather guilty about Kyle. Being poor, he couldn't afford to get the kind of education and tutors he felt Kyle needed growing up. His mother is rather angry that Kyle didn't go to apply at a community college like he promised a few years ago in high school.

His dad is angry about this too but not as much. His father noticed that Kyle went straight to work after high school and has avoided asking for money--well, not much money. Kyle's dad respects that.

At the moment, both of his parents have no idea what happened to him after night he found the armor. As far as they know, he simply disappeared. To say they are worried sick is to put it mildly.

I don't know if I'd dislike him so much because he's kind of a much younger and much worse off, exaggerated and comedic version of me at that age.

I'd probably envy that fact that has both of his parents though.

But see, that's the conceit that all the contrafactual universes (Including the servers.) will have: that they are Earth Prime. We as outside observers have to pick one--I guess Guardian as the beta test server--as Alpha Alpha 0-0 and then designate all the rest as Alpha Alpha 0-###

Right?

Sigh. Yeah, and I can abide it. It's just that we can think more deeply about this subject if we keep our terminology clear. But muddling on--

Those screenshots are telling. The different servers are different universes, with slightly different alternate histories. On Virtue, if your hero exists at all, she had tea with breakfast instead of the coffee her doppleganger did on Union or Infinity. She flies over a different crowd on her way to work in Talos depending on what server you're on when you log in etc.

So how do we name these? Virtue = Alpha Alpha 0-1? Freedom = Alpha Alpha 0-2, Union = Alpha Alpha 0-9 etc. etc.?

We could view things that way. Each server could be a very slight variation on Prime Earth, just different enough to have heroes and villains with the same name but very different backgrounds but not different enough to have the Axis win World War II or to have Kennedy survive assassination but Reagan not.

But it might just be simpler to ignore the server stuff and name-space restrictions as artificial since a multiverse with time travel, magic and superpowers is complicated enough!

By the way, I don't see it mentioned anywhere, but am I correct to assume that the Prime Earth universe is named "Alpha Alpha 0-0?"

And I think a distinction should be made between universes that just have contrafactual histories and universes that have different physics entirely. I mean is the realm that all these demons come from really just a parallel universe or is it something else entirely? I'd argue that it's something different.

I think we should be clear about our definitions and concepts so we can carry this discussion forward.

For example, I think people in this thread have misused the term "dimension." I think we should stick with the way physics and mathematics define "dimension." To call an entire realm of existence or space-time a dimension is not accurate. The space-time of our universe has four dimensions (Possibly more if we go with string theory.). If we bring in other universes with contrafactual histories--Praetorian Earth, Axis America, etc.--that requires at least a fifth, hyperspatial, dimension.

But it sticks in my craw to call any of these universes or planes of existence a "dimension."

Typing this on a mobile? <shudder!> I feel for you dude!