opprime28

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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Noobian_Prince View Post
    If you didn't PAY for COV when it came out, did you have access to the brute, stalker, mastermind, etc. powersets? No. If you didn't pay for GR, could you access dual pistols or demon summoning? Also no. Forget "early access", if you didn't buy it, you couldn't play it.

    I'm not sure if English is maybe a second language for your or if you're just sort of childish, but I'll try and reply anyway.


    Again, EXPANSIONS are, by their definition, not "regular" content. To try and say that them suddenly deciding to make powersets "pay" the same as making entire "expansions" pay is...well...VERY poor logic.

    Quote:

    BTW, a number of MMO players had the "established expectations" that their games would be around as long as they wanted to play them. If you've been following the industry at all lately, you'd know that those expectations were dashed as those games are simply gone.



    So you've already gotten 21 free updates with new powersets, zones, capabilities (like inventions or Ouroboros) and you want "MORE cool stuff" but supported by revenue from Premium players instead? Nice


    Im sorry, does this have a point? No one is talking about one side's expectations. We're talking about how those expectations are suddenly changed, but we're, I assume, hopefully supposed to keep paying as if they aren't. And what I said was I wanted exactly what I've been paying for, and am being asked to continue paying for. Anything else would be supported by me as a VIP or someone else as a freeb buying it through the market. I actually said EXACTLY that. You may want to go reread.



    Quote:

    Actually, yes you did have to WAIT much longer for issues or updates and SAVE for expansions and booster packs. (And you couldn't get any of them for free, no matter HOW long you waited.)
    And if we were talking about expansions and booster packs, you'd have a point. Since we're talking about powersets, which were always included in your subscription (to whatever expansion you paid for) then your statement makes no sense. We will STILL hav to wait for a long time between issues. Have you heard an announcement for issue 22 yet? No...what we just got were two powersets that were PART of issue 21 beta testing, but were somehow "seperate" from issue 21 when it came to purchasing, and were released JUST late enough from each other that some VIPs would have used their points on the other powerset, etc.

    Quote:

    So you want LESS content? This is confusing.
    No. I want to feel that for my nearly 200 dollars a year I continue to get access to the various powersets that the devs continue to develop, as they are developed and released. I dont want to have to start worrying about whether I should buy the new one this month that KIND of interests me because one might come out NEXT month that REALLY interests me and if I spend my points this month I have to wait two more months to play that one.



    Quote:

    When Origins came out two months after the Party pack, did you go into a snit because you had to choose what to spend your money on? Or because you were saving up for the Animal pack, then all of a sudden Steampunk came out?
    Nope. Because neither were powersets, both were entirely optional, minor add-ons, and "booster packs" hadn't been part of what I got for my monthly subscription since the game started.

    Of course, I haven't gone in to a "snit" now either, but Im beginning to think you're not mature enough to disagree with someone without somehow thinking "they're stoopid."

    Quote:

    NCSOFT is in the business of making MONEY ? Gasp! Alert the media!
    They are, which is EXACTLY my point. The way they're pricing things has moved a very loyal customer from being a supporter of the idea to possibly pulling his money. That is something they need to hear, so they DONT lose more money one way or another. It may be they make MORE money with people like me moving to freeb while others buy the goodies and stay VIPs, I dunno. Keep in mind I'm not threating to quit the game, I'm thinking of switching what and how I pay for in it. I just think I'm thinking of doing it in a way that they don't actually want, and as a loyal customer I need to explain my reasoning.

    Quote:
    But nobody's twisting your arm or begging you. If you think Premium makes more sense, then by all means, go that route. Just kindly stop whining that because you got some things in the past for free, you expect that to go on forever.
    Please point to the part of my post where I "whined" or where I didn't explain, very rationally, my reasoning. TYIA! By the way, I never got ANYTHING for free. I paid 180 dollars a year or more for it all (actually, double that since I have two accounts.) My point is simply that if they want most of us to continue paying the 180 dollars a year, then taking things that that USED to get us and suddenly moving it to a "sold seperately" model is probably not that smartest move. At least not for me, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Then again, it's entirely possible that they want to get us all off of subs because they see more money if selling things piecemeal. Who knows?


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Noobian_Prince View Post
    • New powersets: Trick Arrow, Sonic Attack, Archery and Sonic Resonance
    • New Zones: Peregrine, The Hollows, Croatoa and Striga
    • New arcs: too many to count.
    • New TF's: Abandoned Sewers, Cavern of Transcendence, Eden and Terra Volta

    All of the above were ADDED for free in the first 5 issues. Would you care to try again explaining how expansions are a "completely seperate issue" ?
    You DO realize you just proved my point, right? None of the above was an expansion. They came over a series of issues, not in one fell swoop like expansions. They were part of what our 200 dollars a year went toward: developing new content, powersets, zones, etc.
    ADDITIONAL things, like...say...an entirely different WORLD, which CoV was, including level 1-40 content at launch, all new archetypes (not just powersets), contacts, graphics, etc. were an additional charge.

    If you recall, for a LONG time you were paying an additional monthly charge for them to develop that content as well. And when it was developed you got it on the day it was released as part of that monthly sub.

    You just totally proved my point, man. Our monthly subs should cover non-expansion content. Expansion content has ALWAYS been different, but has always been much bigger...almost to the point of being a seperate game.


    What they're doing now, it seems, is dividing up what WAS regular non-expansion content and asking us to buy it. That's their decision, but for me, at least, it's very likely that at that point I won't see paying the 200 a year as worthwhile, since it no longer includes those things. It maybe includes "some" of them.
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
    If you 'knew' this, you were wrong. Huge chunks of content and powersets have been sold outside of the subscription, most recently in Going Rogue.

    The difference now is that instead of waiting months/years for an expansion, we get pay-to-play content delivered to us weekly or monthly, and on an a la carte basis.

    An expansion is a completely seperate issue. An expansion was a packaged deal that gave you new powersets, new zones, new arcs, tfs, etc.

    Thats apples and oranges.
  3. My two cents on this and on f2p in general as a 6.5 year vet:



    I think making VIPs purchase sets is a bad idea. You have NEVER had to pay for powersets before. Demon Summoning and Electric Control were not bought sets, but you COULD buy "early access" to these sets. They came included with the expansion which they were part of, as did all CoV archetypes. You were paying for a complete expansion to the game, which insured you would get ALL new content the MINUTE it was released for those games. This included arcs, TFs, powersets, zones, and events. Making you now "pay" for those sets, or "wait" for them and save up to get them is a HUGE change from what many players have come to expect. The "established contract" we've been workng under is that our sub fees get us all the new content and new powersets. Like it or not, this is a slight deviation from it IF the monthly VIP points we're given doesn't cover the new sets AS they come out.

    I was a HUGE supporter of the f2p move, because, as I understood it, VIPs would basically continue to get all of the "normal" content they always got for the cost of their subs. This would include any new arcs, TFs, zones, events, and POWERSETS. The way you could get these sets, even if they were for "purchase" was by using the 400 points a month you got. The game would get even MORE cool stuff that you could buy, and this new stuff wouldn't come at the expense of dev resources since the free players and VIPs who purchased them would bring added revenue.

    The problem I have is that that isn't how it seems to be panning out.

    At least not with powersets.

    Issue 21 has been out less than 1 month and we've had three new powersets, all of which we knew were coming ahead of time and were part of issue 21 beta. Only ONE of them was released as "part" of issue 21, the second was for sale in the market for a "sale" price of 440 pts, if I recall. The third was for sale in the market for 860 pts. In short, a VIP would have to spend over three months of points to get those powersets (1300 pts). To me, that is simply unreasonable. It either means that new sets will be coming out faster than my sub gets me points to buy them, meaning I have to "Wait" and "Save" to get, which I never had to do before, all while hoping that next month a set doesn't comes out that I want even more, or it means that they'll be releasing them more sparringly and in waves, and this was just an initial wave. If that's the case, having them for "sale" to VIPs makes no sense for either party. There is no benefit to either VIPs or NCsoft. To me, there is only one reason why you would make VIPs purchase some sets with points: you know that some VIPs wont have enough points and wont want to wait, and you'll get money from them. That goes against the established expectations I mentioned above. When you begin to factor in the fact that what they've done for ALL of us is suddenly give us a choice: spend 15 dollars a month and get access to all the stuff freebs get +incarnate stuff and signature arcs, as well as 400 points a month (which equals roughly, 5 dollars or so) -or- save your 15 dollars, lose incarnate stuff, lose the signature arcs, and put some of all of that money toward the market to buy what you want. If you did that, without spending ANY more than you currently spend. you'd have about 1320 pts a month. That would buy at least one powerset per month and still leave you around 500 points to bu any extra stuff you need (access to Inventions and the Market, for example, are only 160 points.)

    For me, the incarnate stuff is very "meh." Im not a raider, and find the lag and being part of 20+ member teams kind of boring. That's an opinion piece, but I know Im not alone with it. So I lose incarnate stuff and it doesn't affect me a ton. The first part of the first Signature Arc was -three- missions long. 3. It's a 20-25 minute arc. So basically, while I got two things that were "ok" but nothing special, I also had to spend three months worth of my points to get the new powersets. If I were freeb, I'd have enough points from just the first month alone to buy both powersets AND have points left over to buy, say, an AE license or a few of the other small things I'd lose.

    I am, for the first time since I started the game, seriously considering dropping BOTH of my subscriptions. Not because I dont like the game or am somehow being a baby or having a tantrum, but because the pricing and the points system is so thoroughly not like I expected and not beneficial to me. I may get more out of being a freeb. It just means that NCsoft will likely be getting less money from me each month, and I think that's worriesome.


    This is part of a growing dissatisfaction with the market prices on just about everything. If things like costume pieces, etc. were cheaper, I would probably literally be dropping 2 dollars a couple of times a week getting little trinkets here and there. When they're 5-10 dollars a pop, I hit the mental block that says "not worth it" and the get zero from me. From a marketing standpoint, if they lowered their prices they'd get a ton more revenue from most players.



    And before someone says "be patient. Dont want it all now" I say "too late for that in this game" I have 6.5 years of history of associating my monthly fee/expansion costs with access to new powersets and conent as soon as it is released. I absolutely "want it now." That's why I sub. Now Im beginning to think if I "want it now" I need to go free...

    I think that's a big mistake on their part. I hope that they adjust the pricing, or make powersets non-market things for VIPs like Time Manip was.
  4. Quote:
    Venomous Gas (Controller/Corruptor): Now has a more appropriate activation animation.
    o.O

    So my toon is gonna turn to my teammate and say "pull my finger"?
  5. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
    Very specific.


    What I'm disappointed with is that quite a bit seems to be ignored. It looks like The Coming Storm was retconned into being "The Well empowers Evil Marcus Cole #908374923874 to invade Earth, finds out Ouroboros is involved and invades there as well."

    What's being ignored?
    - The shivans being scouts. They seem to have no tie in to the well at all.
    - Twilight's Son. If I'm remembering correctly, part of TCS ended up using Kheldians to power starships... aside from the ridiculousness of this from a purely rational standpoint (and the size of, oh, the universe,) it has never had any tie to the well, Incarnates, etc... but ties into an extraterrestrial/extragalactic threat like the Shivans.
    - Mender Silos comes from how far in the future... and what does this have to do with him being Nemesis, among other things? It's even mentioned in Ramiel's Q&A selections, so you *know* the writers are aware of the connection.

    ... frankly, it seems like a continuation of one of the things I don't like about VEATs, namely how it seems that the writing being given such short shrift these days.

    Im still a couple posts behind so someone may have already addressed this but...


    The coming storm ins't Marcus Cole's invasion. The clues very clearly state that the coming storm hits at a time when we were so engulfed in another war that we couldn't defend ourselves. The Menders were trying to help us be able to withstand the storm, and I think the war we were fighting that weakened us to the point where we otherwise wouldn't have been is the war we're in with Cole right now, and the Rikti.

    The prophecy of the menders says that as the tempest dies, the lightning shatters the mirror, and as the storm clears, the shards cut and bleed those who handle them. Ramiel expresses worry that the actions of the Menders has had unforseen consequences, and while they MAY have let us "survive the storm" but I think that at some point in this war another, larger threat will emerge. THAT is the coming storm, and with Cole having weakened all three races via his war, we would be wiped out if it weren't for the incarnates. The problem is, the incarnate power comes with a cost: ties to the well.

    Now we all know that one aspect of Rularuu, lanaru (sp?) wants to be free of his master. He is Rularuu's rage, and is called the storm. He lives in the storm palace. He was defeated in one Shadow Shard TF, but at the end we are distinctly warned he is eternal and will come back. His will is direct, focused, and on one thing, being free of Rularuu and the shadow shard.

    What IF the well, which we know is drawn to strength and will alone, becomes drawn to/linked with Lanaru, and with the barriers between the dimensions being weakened as we've learned in several arcs, Lanaru is somehow able to link with the well AND get free. THAT could be one bad a$$ problem to face. Especially if the sentient well is fighting on the side of Lanaru.

    You still have the "scouts" being Shivans to deal with, and whatever the race was that used Khelds to power their star ships.

    Ive always thought that its kind of cool how the well seems to "Recycle" roles and powers. Zeus seems to have been reborn in Imperious and later Statesman. Positron is really just like Daedalus. What if, somewhere else in the universe, on another world, another "Hamidon" became an incarnate just like ours and the one on Preatorian Earth, but it actually took control? What if the Shivans are its scouts? They're kind of devouring-earth like, being the result of the remnants of the meator shower merged with human bones. What if this hamidon is headed our war, and Shiva was just its scouting party. It arrives and finds us having just finished the war with Cole, only to realize that it can now infest not just the rest of our (its) universe but ALL of the omniverse, and via Oro, all of time itself. In fighting that back, we end up unleashing lanaruu, who finally breaks free of Rularuu, which reigns destruction down on us all. That would explain why the Oro of our future vision looked hamidon infested, yet also filled shard reflections and the storms from the Storm Palace where Lanaruu dwells.

    Meh, just a thought.

    Not sure about that, OR about the Lanaru stuff, but I -am- fairly strongly convinced that the battle we're in with Cole now is what weakens us BEFORE the real "Storm" arises, and by our using incarnate shards to survive that storm we shatter the mirror (the barrier between dimensions) and open up a whole nother mess we need deal with as a result.
  6. I would support the idea of a salvage store, so long as it only sold, never bought, and had a purchase throttle. Set the prices at what Devs consider the "cap" level for a given salvage based on drop rate and demand for recipes. That way, when the market gets sapped/inflated for a given salvage, it would give less experienced/inf carrying members who aren't on daily a second option to craft that IO that they're wanting to craft.

    I could ALSO support the ability to combine salvage the way that you current can inspirations. Allow someone to combine 3-5 common salvage into on specific common salvage item, or 3-5 rare into one specific rare. This could both help casual players more easily get what they need in a timely manner AND allow marketeers to earn a buck here and there by monitoring demand and actually "filling it" as needed.

    Just ideas, but Im not entirely unsatisfied with the way the market works now.
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf View Post
    In any event, I have to strongly disagree with anything that was spilled from your fingertips in an attempt at communicationg a sane and rational remedy to an irrational assumption on your part. If this were a standard questionaire where 5 is happy slobby bobbleheaded Yessiness and 1 was Hell to the Mother Chucking Diety Damned S to the FU, I would have to bury the needle so far into the subzero that popsicles would solve the issues and bring peace to the middle East.

    Good Day!
    o.O


    Wow. Overreact and come across as arrogant and dismissive much?
  8. /signed


    Primarily because it's already equal quality to several of the TFs we have, and redside is sorely lacking in SFs comared to blue side. This would help with both WTFs and fostering more desire for redside players.
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Breog View Post
    Meltdown....

    Just a thought... might not be practical but could be a lot of fun.

    What if Meltdown instead of a typical 3 minute timer tier 9... was on a 1 minute timer.

    Over the course of the minute, you gain more and more partical effects as you reach critical mass. During the 1 minute biuld up you gain (+res, +Status, +Dmg, and a -To Hit PBAoE).

    After 1 minute you exploded ala Self Destruct. BIG BOOM (Extreme), Knockback, Stun (Mag. 4), debuff (-Reg -Def for 30s vs those hit).


    20 secs after your death... it triggers a Self Rez (50% Health, 25%).
    That, my friend, is awesomesauce.


    It would be totally unique, while in line with other sets in that shielders get a tier 9 TP attack. This wouldn't help you go "unstopppable" like some tanker sets can against an AV, while at the same time would help you in those moments when you KNOW the next few minutes are going to be really rough. You suck up the terrible alpha of, say, tanking the four AVs in STF, but then when its done after 1 minute, it goes out with a bang.

    What if you did this, though...what if instead of it killing you then self rezzing you (because a team without a tanker, even for just 20 seconds, could mean instant team wipe) it gave you a -1000% recharge rate for 1-2 minutes. So you become this nigh indestructable force until finally you "explode" into your TP-like damage burst, then you cant attack again for a minute or two. You can still function as the "tanker" but you can't attack.

    This would keep people from abusing it the way shield charge is abused, because you cant attack...which...well...you cant attack. But it would be useful for those big alpha bursts where you know you need to take a pounding, get a chance to do some attacks, then one BIG attack-debuff, then you're left unable to attack, but your team still can. The burst would have to have some long lasting aggro component though, so you don't lose all aggro during your down time.
  10. So I posted this in suggestions a couple of weeks ago, but saw a thread on radioative armor here and figured I'd throw it out here as well.

    Toxic Aura:
    Your body has been exposed to deadly energies, and you've become a walking environmental disaster. Through sheer will, you've mastered these energies and now use them to become a true force of power.

    This set requires you to choose a "source" for your power. Each source offers different benefits to your powers. You may only choose one source per build. The sources are:

    Radioactive: Your body is fueled by radioactive energies, making you a nearly exhaustless fighting machine.

    Chemical: Your body pulses with chemical toxins which can increase your own damage and weaken the attacks of nearby foes.

    Biological: Your body has been exposed to various biological contagions. This can increase your healing and sicken the foes around you.



    Power choices:

    Tier 1: Resistant skin: Self +Res (Smash, Lethal, Toxic, energy) (Toggle)
    Your body has become hardened by exposure to toxic energies. Your tough skin protects against incoming physical attacks. You have gained strong resistances to Smashing, Lethal, and Toxic attacks, as well as some resistance to energy based attacks.

    *This would have weaker resistances than some sets when it comes to s/l damage, more on par with fire and dark, due to other powers in this set. Toxic resistance would be high, however in this first power.

    Tier 2: Toxic Emission: PBAoE Minor DoT, Toxic. (Foe -dmg if Chem, -Regen if Bio, Self +Rech. if radioactive) (Toggle)
    Your body literally oozes with dangerous energies, damaging all nearby foes, and possibly aiding you. The secondary effect depends on your chosen power source.

    *this toggle seems OP at first, due to it being both a damage AND secondary effect at the same time. The damage would need to be scaled properly, perhaps 65% of a normal damage aura, inexchange for the secondary effect.

    Tier 3: Particle cloud: Self + Res (Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative Energy, slow) (Toggle)
    You surround yourself with a cloud of toxic particles which protect you from the elements.

    *fairly standard toggle +res power, again, similar in % to dark and fire as opposed to invul or Electric, etc.

    Tier 4: Noxious fumes: PBAoE Foe choke, vomit, Self + Res Knockback, Sleep, Disorient, Hold, Immob., Psionic. (moderate rech.)
    You release a noxious cloud around you. These vapors will stimulate your mind and body, leaving your resistant to status effects for a while, but can also cause weaker foes in melee range to choke and vomit.

    * This mez resist is a click instead of toggle, but has the unique function of creating a localized patch of mitigation when clicked.

    Tier 5: Phsyical Regeneration: Self heal, (if Chem +Dmg, if Bio +Regen, if radioactive + Recovery, for 20 seconds) (recharge 60 seconds)
    You unlease the energies within your body, briefly healing you and boosting you physically for a short while. The boost depends on your chosen power source.

    * This heal would be weaker that those of dark and fire, and instead leave a 20 second buff to the player after healing.

    Tier 6: Biological infusion: Self +Perception for 40 seconds, (+DMG if Chem, + HP if Bio, +Recovery if radioactive) (Recharge 120 seconds)
    Your body becomes fully infused with the toxic energies around you, exciting every molecule. You are given added perception, as well as a secondary boost depending on your chosen power source.

    *This power can be used one of two ways: saved for fights with mobs like Arachnos or Knives for the +percept, or used primarily as a personal buff when desired.

    Tier 7: Localized Infection: PBAoE Foe slow, (-tohit Chemical, -regen if Bio, -recharge if radioactive).
    You release a localized infection which slows and weakens foes in very close range.

    *This would have a very narrow range, small enough that it really only protects the user, not his team. It would likely be used primarily to help when suddenly overwhelmed.

    Tier 8: Cesspool: Location PBAoE Moderate DoT (Toxic/energy if Chem/Bio, fire/Energy if Nuke)
    You create a cesspool of raw toxic energy beath you, damaging all foes who enter the sludge. The types of damage depend on your chosen power source.

    Tier 9: Meltdown: Self +Res all, +Regen, + DMg, + Rec. (PBAoE moderate toxic damage, Self -rech. 1000% unresistable for 1 min after 90s)
    Your body goes in to meltdown, making you an enraged, unstoppable warrior. During meltdown, you quickly begin gaining extreme resistances to all forms of damage and gain incredible regeneration and recovery as well as increasing your damage output for the next minute and a half. As you reach critical mass, you unlease a damaging burst of toxic energy which both injures and debuffs your foes. However, you are left powerless, with your powers unable to recharge for the long while. This power is not affected by recharge rate boosts.



    So that's it. This is designed primarily to fit those toons who want to be the toxic beast ripping through the city. It clearly wouldn't stand up to WP, Stone, or Invul for survivablity, nor would it surpass shielders in terms of damage buffing and output, but it has enough unique possibilities to make it a solid, fun, survivable set and offer something new. Its much more click heavy than most of the sets, only having 3 toggles.


    Here's a link to the original discussion, which was short but suggested a couple of valid changes.

    http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...ht=toxic+armor
  11. I like it.

    I posted a similar concept for a "toxic armor" set a couple of weeks ago in Suggestions>. The main variations were that "toxic armor" was a resistance set with secondary effects on some powers that could be altered ala Dual Pistols by what "Source" you chose as your source of power (chemical, radiation, or biological.) This was couple with the fact that the set functioned similar to fire and dark armors in that it had lower resistance numbers in place of a self heal and mitigation in the forum of debuffs, which ANY radiation/toxic based armor set should be chock full of. It won't be a will power, but it will be unique and fun enough to really feel like you're a walking ball of destructive energies.

    Here is my original idea's thread.

    http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251793

    But I like yours as well, and yours takes a more "standard" approach to armor sets.
  12. Hey Rangle.

    A couple of weeks ago I posted a somewhat similar concept for a "Toxic Armor" set that could be set for either radioactive armor, chemical armor, or biological armor in a vein similar to dual pistols.

    I know people have wanted a radioactive/toxic armor for a long time, so I'm all behind either one of these!

    Here's my original suggestion. Check it out and see what you think.

    http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251793
  13. Interestingly enough...

    http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=252990

    Someone just posted a radiation armor set again, in both the Tanker and suggestion forums.
  14. Please, get rid of the screen where two enhancements possibly combine, for 1-2 seconds, for no real reason. It makes reslotting take about 2-3 times longer than it needs to, and really offers nothing to the players except annoyance.

    Just have the enhancements say "combined!" or "failed" when you toss it in to the slot.
  15. Is it irony or coincidence that I had to log back in to post my /signed?


    While they're at it, adding an easier way to add special text features like bolding, italicizing, and coloring to text wouldn't hurt.
  16. Not only would I support this, but I'd LOVE to be able to have more than 5 missions in an arc. I can understand the limitations when the AE was first introduced, but it'd fairly clear since all of the nerds that AE arcs being given more than 5 missions (say, a total of 8) wouldn't overwhelm the system, which is barely used anymore by the general populace.

    Of course, I think AE needs major overhauling in general, but fear it's been dubbed unsaveable and thus, will get some real fixing just after they invest in adding more to bases and fixing the gladiator system in PvP.


    In short, I think they've all but given up on it, which is sad, since it's the one thing that really should have put this MMO on the map. It's an amazing concept with an amazing execution, and I think only a couple small things are really holding it back.
  17. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
    However, there should be options...just not sure the range.
    -Super Custom Advanced could conceptually be your tech is so far ahead of the curve, it's alien and practically magic. Things that affect tech wouldn't affect you but simultaneously wouldn't weaken magic.

    -Mega Integration could conceptually be the type of tech trumped by magic but being highly adaptable to current tech. You would not only claim the same attributes tech can bring but also have added benefits vs other tech below the range of Super Custom Advanced types.

    Your Magekiller Po would probably pick Tech origin with the specific Super Advanced attribute. While your other type of tech user would probably pick something else.

    I dunno, that's getting a little complicated.

    You know, I remember someone saying that one of the incarnate slots was going to possibly allow people to add secondary effects (or third effects) to their powers. Given that incarnate slots are directly linked to the well of the furies, which is the source of all origins, I wonder if something on a smaller scale to what you mention above could be what they're thinking. Maybe my ice/storm corruptor could slot it so that he has smashing/cold/slow effects for his attacks but also a "mutant" effect that does something extra. I dunno though. Unless all of the effects were the same I could see that being its own problem unless anyone can craft any type of origin effect, essentially altering their own origin.


    I think Im happier with primarily story-contact-event driven acknowledgment with just some slight, across the origins payout, myself.
  18. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
    Origins meant something in the game in pre-beta. It was decided to strip them of all meaning. You're arguing against an intentional, directed, specific decision the developers made on purpose, and as such you need to produce a convincing argument why their decision needs to be overturned, remembering that many of the developers who worked at the time are still with the game. You have so far failed to do so.
    Except Devs DIDN'T decide to strip them of all meaning. As has been pointed out, the entire system of enhancements prior to IOs was built around them, and your initial contacts were determined by them. While the enhancements were identical and the contacts didnt offer origin related storylines, they weren't ignored. Likewise, new content in Preatoria seems to be affected by origin. I'm not asking for their decision to be overturned. It APPEARS that while they decided agianst them affect mechanics, they clearly still want them to play a role in storyline, even including the "origins of powers" storyline.

    What Im asking for is more of that.
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
    I'm sorry but you are the one who seems to be more interested in scoring points here. You offered to drop our speculations on how many people are concerned about this suggestion and I agreed to do the same and return to the actual topic. This is the second time you've referred back to our off topic foray it instead of letting it go.
    IF what's going on now counts a "second time" then your last post also counts a reference back, meaning you haven't yet dropped it, either. So nice try.
    Regardless, I'm moving on.


    Quote:
    Anyway as I said in the other origin thread I think origins should be strictly RP because characters can have multiple origins depending on which powersets they have chosen, and it gives the players the freedom to be creative with their character concepts instead of locking them into a game mechanic.
    As has been pointed out in this thread, there's nothing inherently linking any given powerset to one given origin. That being said, I have several characters who are "mutant" by origin but also use, say, an assault rifle which might count as "tech." They still have a "primary" origin, though, so I'lll respectfully disagree and continue to ask that origins in-game become more in line with their counterparts in the comics. Not only does this, imo, add to the story-driven nature of the game, but it adds optional depth for all characters to explore and enjoy the game and their characters in ways which are currently being all but ignored save for minor annoyances, as the "make origins strictly rp" thread basically admits. Adding origin-specific contacts and possibly occassinal origin specific zone events would both address this issue and in no way penalize any players for any origin choices that they have, or will, make in the future.


    That being said I -could- get behind the idea that you chose an "origin" for each powerset, and both of these origins are accessible/applicable to your toon. So a dual pistols/fire weilding techno-wizard might be have a tech-primary and magic-secondary origin, and be able to do either contacts and use either SOs/DOs. I'd have zero problem with that if it were able to be coded.
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
    You said my statement "-out of- tens of thousands of player" implied that I interacted with thousand of players. I pointed out that passive observation on the forums and ingame does not qualify as interacting with people online.
    So you were pointing out what I had just claimed? Man, you and I have some serious trouble communicating for some reason.




    Quote:
    What was it you said in your last post?
    When one of the participants in this discussion introduces exact figures in response to a previous statement, I don't think it's violating my statement to respond. The fact that you're now trying to make it look like it does suggests that you're less interested in dialogue about the actual topic and more interesting scoring rhetorical points on an online forum about a video game for some weird reason.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
    No it doesn't. One does not need to interact with people on the forums or in the game to observe the conversations they are having in threads or in the chat box.




    I hate to point this out to you but the majority of the 125 odd posts in this thread so far were made by the same 2-3 dozen people, and that is a tiny fraction of the games population.
    I'm not sure how you're pointing out to me something that was entirely part of my point...



    Quote:
    According to the 2010 4th quarter earnings released by NCSoft If we assume all sales are from subscriptions, (which they aren't so the number is actually less) we can place the number of subscribers at roughly 63,000.

    1% of 63k is 630 players, and as anyone can plainly see nowhere near that number of players have made a written statement yet in this thread. At a glance I'd estimate the number of people who made a written response so far is around 30.
    Which only goes to underscore my point, yet again. As I said, "if we assume -even- 1%" and in reality you point out it was even less, then the fact that more than just a couple of the people out of the 30 in this thread suggested that they DID wish origins matter more suggests that, if this thread is taken as at all analogous of the general population (which is at least as likely as your "what I've seen in my experiences" statement) an even HIGHER number than my "hundreds" would be accurate when factored to match the 63,000 players.


    Quote:
    Ah the old "if they can't be bothered to post they agree with me" argument. Always a hoot to see used.
    See, now is where I start to think you're not even really reading to listen, you're reading to argue. Nothing I said even REMOTELY implies what you just stated.

    At all.

    What I said was that on ANY given issue, there are people who hold to a desire or belief who are passionate enough about it to "speak up" and people who hold to the same desire and belief but aren't passionate enough about it to speak up. Meaning that for for the numbers above, which you've just shown to likely be HIGHER than my hypothetical numbers showed, there are likely more people who would enjoy it but just havent voiced their opinions.

    How you twist that in to "well if they didn't speak then they obviously agree with me" is beyond me.




    Quote:
    I never said you didn't. I only said I had a problem with your interpretation of what "sizable" was in reference to the number of people discussing whether or not origins should be changed, and that if the devs wanted origins to impact the game they wouldn't have scrapped its effect on the game before launch.
    Why don't you explain what "sizeable" would be to you.

    Also, you never really DID address the problems I pointed out with your assertion that "because the devs removed a feature they initially intended and inclued it somehow means that they are against the concept behind that feature."
  22. Removing title restrictions: /signed. Not even sure why on earth they would be linked to origin in the first place.


    Getting rid of DO/SO enhancements tied to origins: /Signed. It really is nothing but hassle, offering nothing to game play or character concept or fitting in with standard comics.

    Making origins totally pointless: unsigned/. I think most in here know why, and I actually think this thread is just a thinly veiled response to another thread right now, but just in case...I think origins should count in the "story" of the game. While it doesn't have to be tied to "mechanics" in ways that incoveniece or limit players of any given origin (which the two issues above actually do) it should count in the "story" development of your character, whether via a few unique contacts and storylines, a few unique in game experiences for each archetype, or something else.

    Not at all unlike how villains, heroes, Preatorians, and Kheldians each have -some- aspects of the game that make their experiences and origins "matter" in the story of the game. Origins should have something to contribute.
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
    Epic failure on your part.
    1. "-out of- tens of thousands of players" implies that youve interacted with them. If you haven't, then of COURSE you haven't seen anyone talking about it. That's like me saying
    "I've only heard 100 people express that they need more money out of all the people in the world!" Well, If you've only really interacted with 1000 people, then 100 of them feeling a given way is pretty much the only ratio you can go on, since you havent any idea how the other billions feel about it. Absence of data isn't data. Even more so, you REALLY only have an accurate ratio of the percentage of people who felt that way out of all the people you've actually heard discussing it, an even smaller number than those whom you've interacted with. Your statement is a useless statement since it's comparing something you have a rough statistic on (x number of people have talked about this in my presence) to a statistic that has no direct relationship(there are thousands of players.)


    Quote:
    2. You are the one that is claiming there are a sizable number of people debating this issue when there is no evidence to support that statement.
    Except there is evidence. In just three days of being posted, we've had quite a few people in just one thread voice their desire that they wish to see origins matter more. Not all agree on how, but the desire has been expressed by more than a few. Now, if you assume even 1% of the player base has read this thread, then you're looking at a rather large number of players, arguably at -least- in the multiple hundreds, who agree enough to actually make a written statement. Since there would likely be many more who would like it but NOT care enough to make a statement, that number, at its lowest, would probably be even higher. We aren't talking a dozen people here.


    Unless my thread just got REALLY lucky and all four people in the game who felt this way stumbled upon it. And since most of the players I know (and I know quite a few, since Im a very active member of the Justice community) don't even read the forums on a semi-regular basis, I'm betting that's not the case. Even then, this is just anecdotal evidence since neither of us have actual statistical data to base it on. I'll agree that, from here on out, I'llbe speaking only in terms of participants in this discussion when I make claims about ratios. Why don't you do the same.


    Quote:
    Yeah that argument gets used a lot when someone is miffed that people don't agree their idea is the best thing since sliced bread.
    That, my friend, is even WORSE logic. It's called Ad hominen and, possibly, some Bifurcation. Tell you what, if you feel like actually discussing in a logical way, get back to me. Otherwise, I'll pass on the personal attacks and anecdotal evidence thrown out as refutation.

    Oh, and if you haven't noticed, not only have I, more than once in this thread, said that other people had excellent points about problems with my initial idea, I've ammended my initial suggestion and actually encouraged those who disagreed with it to continue to discuss so we can find a workable suggestion for all. Ive also called others brilliant for coming up with alternative approaches to my suggestion. That's right. I used the word "brilliant."

    I'd hardly say that those are the traits of someone "miffed" cause their idea wasn't lauded as golden.
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
    I'm sorry but I have a problem with your definition of "sizable". At most all I have seen is one or two dozen people talking about this out of tens of thousands of players. A "minute fraction" is a more accurate description of the number of people concerned about how origins work.
    So you've talked to tens of thousands of players about origins?

    More likely, you havent even TEAMED with tens of thousands of players, and of the minority of players whom you've interacted with whether in game or in the boards, a minority of them have expressed a desire for origins to matter more. Probably not many MORE of the minority in those conversations expressed disagreement.

    Meaning at best, most players are silent on the issue, in your experience.

    Now, in a smaller, more targeted sampling size, ie. this discussion, where people who are participating are more likely to have an opinion on it (and are STILL only a vast minority of even -that- group) you have several for, and several with concerns about, origins playing a more important role. So if this discussion specifically about origins were somehow taken as a sample of what you might find across the board in the game, a large number of people would desire, if not just be supportive of such a feature, and a larger number may have valid concerns about it and how it could be implemented.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post

    Yes we can. If origins was that important to the devs they wouldn't have scrapped it in the first place.
    That doesn't make any logical sense whatsoever.

    I decided it wasn't worth my time add in a pool at the time I built my house. It was known, however, that my intial plans for a pool were included in the blueprints and in my hiring. Meaning I clearly originally wanted a pool. There were several concerns including time, money, and safety of my young children that kept me from putting it in at the time.

    It is now three years later and I still haven't built my pool.

    That doesn't mean I wouldn't -LIKE- a pool, if I thought my family and kids actually wanted it badly, and I could see a way that it could be done cheap enough and safe enough to ease my concerns.

    Your statement makes zero logical sense in the same regard when it comes to origins and the devs.
  25. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
    Not being a jerk, jut mis-reading when I'm being upset Trust me, you'd KNOW if you'd upset me...

    Lol, fair enough. :-D
    And great picture, by the way.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
    Really sums up well how I feel about this.


    This will do far, far more harm than it will do good. It's a bad way to make origins meaningful, and a good way to anger your customers.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Valerika View Post
    No thanks, I'd rather not have to trade concept for min/maxing capacity. I like origins exactly where they are--inconsequential.


    Ok, I really think that it's getting tough to tell what ideas people are responding to. Only one of the ideas thrown out about how this could work would effect Min/Maxing and that's been dropped from the suggestion, unless there are side effects of some other ideas I haven't considered, which is entirely possible. So can we do this from here on out? Place a
    "re: ______" right at the start of your post, so we know what method of bringing in origin content you're referring to.

    For example...


    RE: ORIGIN SPECIFIC CONTACTS AND ZONE EVENTS

    I thought about this more last night, and I -REALLY- believe this could address everyone's problems, fears, and desires fairly. If you had five contacts that ran similar, perhaps even an intertwined arcs, but with each one focusing on one "origin" and an appropriate new enemy group in their storyline, culminating at the completion of the arc with the triggering of an "origin specific" zone event, I think you'd nail this. No one would have to participate that didn't want to in either the arc or the event (anymore than you have to participate in, say, a Superadine raid) and yet the game would be "acknowledging" origins with more than lip service every once in a while. A simple message would go out that a "____zone event is happening in _____" just like they do for Rikti Raids, zombie raids, superadine raids, etc. For ease, you could "combine" two similar origins for some of the in-zone events, so natural and mutant, tech and science, leaving magic on its own. The zone events shouldn't be "zone-wide" so people could ignore it, just like a Superadine raid or a Miner's Strike. The raid could be a "culmination" of the arc, perhaps even after completing the NEXT to the last mission of the arc, setting you up for the climax. Something similar to the spawning of Babbage. So if the science/tech arcs were about an alien enemy group trying to "absorb" all of our techology maybe the zone event would be fighting "techno-infected" citizens in PI before they get ahold of Portal Corp technology, or if the mutant/natural arcs were about a "humans only/mutant supremacy" storyline, the zone event could be a riot in one area against "suspected" mutants that you have to protect for the duration.


    If you WANTED you could give a special "reward" for participation in the event, but it would have to be the SAME reward for every event, to keep things balanced and prevent penalization for any previous origin choices. My ideas were either a special type of inspiration that was rarer and more powerful or unique, or a type of merit/ticket that could be spent at a single unique store called "Genesis" that specializes in "unique costumes and weaponry" selling unique origin themed costume pieces (though all its pieces would be useable/purchasable by any origin, perhaps with slightly different names.) These costume pieces would just be another form of unlockable costume pieces then, which already exist in the game. Maybe it would even be an alternate way to unlock some of the -existing- pieces earlier in the game like rulaaru blades etc.

    So, can anyone see any problems with this approach? It would remove the feeling that origins mean nothing to those of us who are bothered, but in no way affect min/maxing or penalize previous choices we've made or restrict costumes/buffs to any specific origin.