lionsbane_EU

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That would affect the status of a post actually existing or not. It probably would have no influence on negotiations, but the lawyers would have advised them to say nothing anyway, as lawyers always err on the side of non-disclosure of information.

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THAT kind of statement could affect things yes, but there are still plenty of things they COULD say which wouldn't, such as "Please bear with us during the current ongoing transition period. More news will be forthcoming as soon as possible".

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Yes, they probably could say something along those lines. But it is risky for them. Their solicitors or HR advisers may well be advising them not to.
And to answer a previous poster, it doesnt necessarily have to take 3 months. But that is the prescribed period.

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But they're not saying ANYthing. Even GR, who's been posting a little today mostly in defense of his soon to be former employer, is making absolutely no comment regarding what's going on. Almost certainly because he's been TOLD to make no comment. This silence is causing NC irreparable harm by the minute.

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But, barring the kind of statement you just suggested they can't.

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What really interested me about the financial highlights were the revenue projections. Now unless I'm reading it wrong the revenue for CoX in 2008 was 23,227m Won but the projections for 2009 fall drastically to 15,000m Won. I wonder what their analysts know that we dont.

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You are reading it wrong. Those are the GW figures. CoH/V was 24,218 and is projected to be 25,000.

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The other thing is the number crunchers have got to be considering the impact CO and DC (not to mention Star Trek) is going to have on the vulnerably low numbers of this game.
Those storms ARE gonna hit.

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they cant make announcements that suggest the situation is a feta compli

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It's really cheesy to say that... course I may not have understood you properly - after all, it's all greek to me.

But more seriously, I've already stated that NC must have an idea what they're going to do with us EU players and EU boards/servers. It shouldn't be reliant upon individuals employment or a roles geographical location - so consultation periods should have nothing to do with the current silence to us.

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It's the HR laws of the UK. You can't just say I'm making someone redundant. You have to go through a process. If you don't the employee has a very good chance of getting substantial rewards for a) constructive dismissal b) sueing because the company isn't being compliant with the law.

NC cant make a formal announcement until the process is complete becaus they would be prejudicing themselves.

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So cocking up the PvP aspect of the game seemed to put a bigger dent in the game than NCSoft were/are prepared to admit.

No surprise there then.

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I don't get this.

For a start I don't think it's that easy to distinguish a PVP player from a PVE player in this game, and PVP is a relatively small part of the game. I can't see how changes in PVP had such a massive impact.

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And wouldn't the USA have taken just as big a (pro rata ) hit as we did?

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That had a hell of a lot more to do with the WAY you said it rather than what you were actually saying. The message was drowned out by the arrogant attitude.

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Indeed, we all agreed that more advertising was needed. It was just the idea that CoX sould be attracting as many people as watched The Dark Knight movie that was absurd. Or that Supergroups where of more than marginal interest.

It's all irellevent now anyway, I shall go and do something more productive until SWTOR comes out.

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Praf, there is one reason that no one was prepared to pay to advertise, market and take advantage of all the huge exposure of the massive, global grossing superhero movies, of which the Dark Knight is but one. Only one reason.

The big boys didn't have faith in the product.

And dont get me started about Supergroups and the dozens of other things that could have made this game, that is great to a few, great to a mass audience.

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Because bearing in mind I have tried to put forward why I think the game has never hit its potential, and you lot have constantly knocked my theories and suggestions,then clearly the game should be doing fab business right now.

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That had a hell of a lot more to do with the WAY you said it rather than what you were actually saying. The message was drowned out by the arrogant attitude.

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Lets get ready to RUUUUUUUUUUMBLE!!!

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Naaah that comment was fine. Besides I dont think it's appropriate to flame war on this particular thread.
People are losing their jobs.

Mind you, the risk of a ban has just decreased...

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Things must be getting bad when I think Lionsbane is talking sense...

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DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!™

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If I hadnt been talking some degree of sense all the way through, we wouldnt be having this conversation now.

Because bearing in mind I have tried to put forward why I think the game has never hit its potential, and you lot have constantly knocked my theories and suggestions,then clearly the game should be doing fab business right now.

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Just wow....
I never would have thought there will ever be a company as [censored] as sony online when it comes to customer support and information, now NCsoft has proven me wrong

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I think you have to keep in mind that the number of people on the Euro boards, and therefore even knows this is going on, is pretty dirisable. And the number miffed by lack of feedback is even less than that. So I dont think they consider us to be a priority.

And besides, there is another reason they are saying nothing. And it's all about HR.

GR has not been made redundant. He has been put at risk of being made redundant. They are two legislatively speaking distinctly different things.
By law the company has to operate a period of consultancy with him and others affected.
During that time they cant make announcements that suggest the situation is a feta compli (ie he WILL be made redundant) because GR could then claim for constructive dismaissal and probably win.

Redundancy has to be SEEN to work in a certain way, even if both sides privately know what the outcome is going to be.

And i suspect that is why the silence.

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Then you are blind, it hasnt effected me in way except its fab news for my business, but it quite obviously is real.

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What does your business do? Few industries flourish in a recession, liquidators/administrators and corporate lawyers are the only two that spring to mind for me.

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Been inside Primark lately? or the cheaper end food stores?
Anything cheap and cheerful and essential (food clothes etc) is going to score a hit.

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Personally ill wait and see what NC have to say when they give us a official statement

If it comes to a move to the US ill way my options if everything's transferred and i manage to keep the names I'm attached to ill stay if i don't well then ill more than likely leave.

If its here's a US account and 2 months subs i wont bother i don't want to start again and o certainly wouldn't be re buying all those extra slots and expansion packs I've purchased.

Also ill not be buying any slots or that in the near future till we get some form of solid answer

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Ahem. You know me.Ever the realist. The servers on the UK and Europe are not particularily full. In fact, I would bet they are way below expectations.
Any one ever seen more than a green dot?

When the game takes a hit in the not too distant future, i very much doubt there will be a cost justification for keeping the EU open at all.

That's not doom. I'm sure we'll end transfered to the USA servers but still on defiant, Union etc.

I never understood why they split the servers like that in the first place. It was bound to cause complications further down the line, not to mention create unecessary running costs.

Shall I say this is only my opinion or can I trust my critics to read my sig?

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Well, on the subject of how different people handle movement...

I use W/S for forward/back; A/D for strafing; and the mouse with right-button depressed for rotating about my character's axis.

Each to their own, I say.

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I agree with Shadowe.

It's not like playing the game is life-or-death rocket science, who cares if people want to use WASD, the arrow keys or 5678 (if they're an old Speccy user who misses the Cursor Keys)?

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If these threads can't even agree on the meaning of the word elitism, then we really are in trouble.

It seems to me it means that because I play a certain way or play to a certain level, or understand certain complex aspects of the game,then the fact you can't makes you inferior to me and I cant be bothered with you.

Like I say, I dont know anyone like that, in game.
I'm pretty qualified to say this because not only have I played since day one of the USA but I ran a successful and large SG for years. So I have met literally hundreds of players and cant think of anyone who fits this elitist catagory.
Almost everyone I ever played with plays to enjoy it and are, or certainly seem to be, pretty good natured and easy going.

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the problem is trying to explain you have to get to level 20 to be able to get Stamina .. ..now that would make a good Vet reward ..stamina with no pre req's

by now you thing it would be on the first splash screen .. GET STAMINA ....

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Why should it? Stamina is useful sure, but by no means essential. I've made plenty of successful builds without it, so telling people they NEED it is just another form of elitism.

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In my opinion actually, you saying that, because you personally dont need it it isnt essential, generally is the very elitism the ops talking about not the other way round.

You either have to pick the build that doesnt need it or be one of those players who is quite happy to stop to rest every second minion from about level 8 till 20.

Most builds are disproportionately low on stamina between those levels and most people dont find that as fun.
The quality of life experience of playing the game dramatically improves when the average new player with the average build gets stamina and i think you know it.

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Sure, I'll throw a MAJOR hissy fit whenever I see a VEAT in my team without Tactical Training: Maneuvers. But if I'm leading, I won't kick them.

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Thats big of you.

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Whatever happened to teaming just for fun thats what I want to know.


I have to say here that in all my years of playing, I rarely come up against the sort of "do your job or else" kind of gamer.
Most of the teams I join or make up tend to take each other for what they are. The evening usually ends up with "thanks for the team. Great fun."
Pretty much regardless who's in it.

It's very rare i meet a pre maddona or, conversly, someone thats so bad that the whole team implodes because of them. Some teams work out better than others but no one, generally, has a hissy fit. It's pretty much all good natured fun.

And I think that's exactly how it should be.

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Why is a sex-offender who was sentanced for chil-related incidents not in a mental ward?

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If i can answer the same point from a different tact..
it's also and moreso because, whilst the desire or even the compultion to offend with a child may well be as a result of an illness, the actual act of doing so isn't an illness.
Unless the court proves that the offender doesnt know right from wrong, the person, by submitting to the offence, knows what they have done.
And by reoffending, which almost every offender does, they are knowingly and conciously commiting a criminal and permanently harmful offense.

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Its not right, not by any means, and I would be quite shocked if anyone said it was. So we can classify something like that as an illness, at the very least. So maybe money should be put into actually trying to find a way to solve it, and if not then at least keep them out of harming other people and possibly themselves.

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A cure for these people has, to date, eluded even the top experts in the world. I forget the figures but something like 70% of released offenders multiple offend within 2 years of release. They are generally incurable at this point in time.
This isnt political. They generally cant be "cured." and the majority dont want to be.

So we're back to square one which is protecting our kids with the best tools we have.

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No, I got what you said fully. Just one question:
Why exactly would a registered sex offender ever get a job as a moderator of kids forums do you think?

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My reply-question, aimed at the people who should be making these decisions, would be;
Why is a sex-offender who was sentanced for chil-related incidents not in a mental ward?

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Because, while allright minded people would want to see them locked away forever or at least castrated, that aint gonna happen in our lifetime. We got to deal in the real world.

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Its not right, not by any means, and I would be quite shocked if anyone said it was. So we can classify something like that as an illness, at the very least. So maybe money should be put into actually trying to find a way to solve it, and if not then at least keep them out of harming other people and possibly themselves.

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Still in the real world, these people are more likely to reoffendwhen they are released than any other catagory of criminal offender. And, you find, a single pedo can be responsible for dozens of abuses! Or worse.
So in this real world, you got to protect your kids. And as an employer, If youre dealing with kids, be it the internet or face to face such as a teacher, it is only right to check them on the register.
It's no where near ideal but until something better comes along at least its something.
Like I said, if you were going to entrust an employee with lots of cash you would check them out first.

It's astounding that in the real world, you are arguing against the point, which is simple. Its right to screen moderators if they are on kids forums.

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So many people going out of their way to misunderstand or misrepresent the other side, then get all righteous about what the nasty straw man's saying.

This thread so needs locking.

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Agreed. When people ignore whole chunks of what you write to try and make you look bad, time to say good-bye and let GR know.

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No, I got what you said fully. Just one question:
Why exactly would a registered sex offender ever get a job as a moderator of kids forums do you think?

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This is my point.
You can throw as MUCH money at you want at things, whiffle on about problems as much as you like, but nothing will change if problems are not actually confronted and SOLVED.

The issue should not be 'Stop Sex offenders from getting at our children'.
The issue should be 'Why the hell are these people even out of jail, or more realistically a mental ward?'

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Boy, there are all kinds of people in the world arent there?

"the issue should not be "Stop sex offenders from getting to children?"

You did say that didnt you?

And yes I know what you were saying.
This aint la la land. Pervs do get released and people like you and the "person" you quoted should be ashamed of yourselves. Really.

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that is crawling with sex perverts...

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It's that type of exaggeration which prevents anyone from being able to comment rationally on the issue.

Right. I've no problem with trying to prevent kids being groomed on the internet. This law is an attempt to do so, but I personally feel, like Tsum that it's targetting the wrong area - parents should be responsible for what their children do, rather than a complete stranger (which is what a forum mod is) - yes, when you drop your kids off at the youth club or whatever (not a parent myself and have no wish to speak for parents), you've got the guarantee (or do you?) that someone has been vetted.

Given the number of forums in the country, that doesn't seem feasible. And given the potential for lawsuits that arrive with new regulations and laws, I can see many a company giving up forums as a risk too far.

I hope I'm wrong.

And yes, it has went to flames, far quicker than I would have guessed.

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Firstly, it isn't an exaggeration. But that aside, what on earth is your issue (and any responsible employers issue)with checking out interviewees?

Im not for a second suggesting that every kids forum has pervs on them,, anymore than Im suggesting every under 16 football coach or scout master is one.

But, perverts look for ways to get in touch with kids. That is a fact. And it is absolutely correct that forums ensure they are moderated by people without that sort of record.
And to say its entirely the parents responsibility and not that of the company is niave, unfair and just plain wrong.
Companies are responsible for who they employ.
Can you imagine if i was a taxi firm and i employed a rapist who i never knew about because I never checked him out? I would be putting women in direct danger every time I sent him to pick one up.
I'd actually go so far as to say if an incident happened and I hired someone who attacked someone then, unless I checked them prior to employing them (and got references from the authorities), the attack is partly my fault and i should be held accountable.
if you had a cash register or valuable goods are you sure you wouldnt check out the person who youre gonna be entrusting with your goods first?

I know thats a slightly different scenario but the principles about the same and the whole thing about pedos is they are insideous and cunning.

In fact, one final point, if there is a forum for kids and a moderator isa sex offender, can you think of the reason he's (or she) working kiddie forums?

There's really only one isnt there and that's why it's correct for these checks to be in place.

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And so this topic has become a flamefest.

Blegh. Padlock please.

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It's not a flamefest. This is something else entirely.
It's too important a subject to trivialise it by calling people Flamers.
I 100% agree with Khorak and of his opinions of those posters who are saying things like "I want my taxpayers money back etc."
Theyre saying trying to keep kids secure in an area (the internet) that is crawling with sex perverts isn't worth the miniscule money they (as in taxpayer) have to invest in it. Or that this isnt important enough. Get more police on the streets but dont ensure that people that moderate kids websites arent peodophiles? What a joke!

Khoraks response pretty much sums up how I feel about those people too.

I happen to think any responsible company would be happy to run these checks and any right minded interviewee would understand why the checks are being run. I can't see why this would create more hassle as its a pretty routine thing.

And, like Khorak, I wonder about the mentality of thopse people who think that such as move isnt sensible and responsible.

Are you not aware that these people can be and are attracted to posts that connect them to children? Have they never heard of internet grooming?

There is only one valid point of view on this subject.
And while i have a reputation for thinking that people that disagree with me are wrong, in this instance, anyone that doesnt think this is responsible legislation is a disgrace.
And you can ignore my disclaimer sig.

Saying it may affect forums is one thing and is a valid debate.
Saying the legislation is a waste of taxpayers money... uh uh

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CoX shouldn't be affected by this, but I -can- see this being an end to official game forums in the future...

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Why? They're saying that if youre going to work on sites with kids then you have to be checked to ensure youre not a sex offender.

To the op, I dont think this is pandering to anyone, i think its sensible, and any one who works with kids should understand why they have to go through these checks and be happy to comply with them.

I dont see why one single operator of forums should go down as a result of this, unless they cant be bothered to run these simple precautionary checks.

sex offenders should never have access to kids in any form, especially the internet.

That said, this particular forum isnt aimed at kids (even if some use it) so there shouldnt be an issue in any event.

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Now for the challenging part. NO IO's allowed,

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If you're serious about this forget half measures - no enhancements of any sort.

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Why on earth are we discussing how to dumb ourselves down???
Shouldnt we be talking about the devs raising the challenge bar for us?

One reason, but not the only one, is because, except in a few tfs and so on, once youve played the game a while you know exactly what formation youre gonna be faced with and roughly whos going to be in it.

Bit like playing a football match knowing the oppositions starting 11, all their exact strengths and weaknesses AND their tactics for the match, knowing that they wont vary their tactics at all regardless.

That would be an easy match too wouldn't it?

That is one and only one reason the game is easy.

And how about after 5 years we actually get some new opponents that dont necessarily follow the exact formula we get served up fight after fight? Or more Elite level opponents? Or random opponents? (rogue super villians not necessarily part of the group we're facing?) Villians that show up randomly? You dont know if theyre gonna be there or not?

The ways of dealing with this and providing us with an invigorated challenge rather than dumb us down again are there. But someone with imagination has to look for em. And you know what I think about CoH in that department.

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I think it means the next Superman movie might not shy away from using the full "truth, justice" tagline

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Nice point

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Interesting thread. The only thing I really disagree with is the thing about the cold war being a USA invention. It's true that Macarthy was a nutter and that they got overly paranoid about communism in the USA but the Russians were not joking.

The Russian/Communist threat was real and by no means a USA invention. And besides Mccarthy was the 50s and the Cuban Missile Crisis, which the Americans really did nor invent, was the 60s.

As for anyone predicting China would be a super power, yeah I'm sure there were books and theories running around but the reality was that the world in general did not forsee the acention of China as an economic super power simply because of the nature of its leaders.

And I was also around during these times.

As for Superman, I dont think they'll ever change his ideallist boy scout stance. I think its too ingrained in his mythology.

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I've decried the doom mongerers in the past, and I flatly refuse to take up their banner now, but with the German and now the French player community members being effectively abandoned, it's getting harder to deny that a merger is on the cards...

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It's never been about doomongering or banner waving. it's always been about being realistic.

I really wish you would understand that.

There is nothing wrong with them restructuring provided it results in a better experience overall. Heck, even Tescos do it, dropping one store here, building another there.

Sorry to sound all knowing but, given this is the internet without any global boundaries, putting a eu division in the first place was always going to be a financial drain. And was going to create logistical and information issue. Look how we tend to know things last as a simple example of that.

Even the German and French divisions could have been handled in the good ol US of A from day one.

Less out bound cost. Offices etc.

All I ever wanted for this game was to go up. And all it's ever done is go down. I want it to do the right things so we all benefit from a better game.
And that's why I criticize. Or make suggestions.

Heck, whats wrong with it having 200,000 subs and the developers having 3 times the money to spend to make it even better anyway?

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Healthy subs.

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Increasing subs are not the only way to have a product that from business perspective is successful for a company.

I will break it down to elementary managerial level for you to understand it.

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Thank you

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BCG matrix product placement method categorises products based on Business growth rate and relative market share position.4 categories : Star (high growth,high market share),Questionamrks (high growth,small market share),Dogs (small growth,small share),Cash cows (small growth,large market share).

You wanna take a wild guess where CoX fall unders this very elementary product portfolio method?Ding Ding u got it!Its a cash cow.It has a low growth rate by now due to a large product cycle but keeps a high market share (in fact a monopoly).As long as this product remains with that share it will be a cash cow.

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Well, I applaud you for at least trying to come up with a semi legible counter argument. In fact I'll even say its legible, if complete nonsense.

Ding. It has high market share. Dang it has less than half a percent of the market. (oops)

Ding. It's a monopoly. Dang. It wont be a monopoly for long. And its known that for years now. (oops)

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And if you think that with super heroes dominating the media, us being the only mmo super hero game in the world and the way the subs have been declining for years are pointing to a healthy well managed game, then what can I say?

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You can say exactly what is obvious.You know jack about marketing,product placement,brand awareness as well as MMO market and relation of media to the MMO industry.Just because The Dark Knight did 530million during 2008 doesnt mean all these people wanna put on a cape and tights.

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it absolutely does mean exactly that to a small percent of the people that are time after time, going to the cinema because they love super heroes. And all this game needs is about a half a percent of em or less. If you cant see that...
But you can't can you?


Following ding and dang (sorry I did the dang) I thought you actually had at least a cursary knowledge of the subject and then you went and blew it with this:

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Some people just like movies or action movies some other people dragged their girlfriends to watch this movie just like that friggin High School Musical 3 movie that my fiancee dragged me to watch and i literally almost fell asleep.Doesnt mean i wanna grab a mic and play Disney Karaoke.

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Even a novice will tell you the best marketing in the world can only ever expect a 3%(ish) hit rate, maximum. I realise you didnt know that.

So you want to also tell me about blue rinse grannies (that are part of the 97% that are NOT potential customers)with their walking sticks who wandered into the wrong film to try and prove your point?
Or the old man that took his grandson (who IS a possible profilee?)
Or the girl that went in cause she lourrvves Robert Downey Jn?

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Okay, it was still an insult, and TG, you're a naughty boy

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One kind of insult doesnt bother me. It just informs me of the sub par mind set of the person i'm dealing with and I do't want to deal with that kind of person.

But Praf was right about me and insults.

the other kind, where someone I have regard for and think they are worthwhile.. insults me.. yes that would be an insult.
Don't worry. You're really not in that catagory. And neither is TG whoever that is.