konshu

I think we just need to fix the content so you can't outlevel it.

What I believe the devs should do is pursue an alternate form of foe group design.

Years ago, back when I started playing this game, I disliked how we didn't have a toolset to create our own content. I thought it was obvious we needed one. So I went back to NWN2 and spent some time trying to program into it a spawning system that somewhat resembled what we have in CoH, but with some improvements.

One of the things I wanted was for my foes to scale in power as the levels increased. I wanted my custom NPC mages, for example, to have more and stronger spells at higher levels.

So what I did was I created a template where I'd have "snapshots" of my Enchanter NPC at 5 level increments, from 5-30. The code was written so that if the player was from level 1-5, they'd get the first "snapshot" of the Enchanter, with the spells appropriate to that level. If the player was from 6-10, they'd get the 2nd "snapshot," with modestly upgraded powers. Etc.

I did this with multiple groups of NPCs (including monsters, warriors, and rogues, not just mages) and it seemed to work well. As a designer and player I loved it. It seems like an obvious solution to me for getting foes to truly scale across the levels, and it's not that much more work considering what you get for it.

I also subtlely changed the look of the NPCs at each of the 5-level marks, replacing a costume piece here, or changing a color there, so the level 5 version of the foe would look less powerful than the level 30.

I think this would be a great feature to include in CoH/CoV.

Generally speaking, there are level-range problems with foe groups across the board. It's a design problem.

Naturally, you can get around level restrictions by making custom foe groups, but that takes up a lot of memory / file space.

For demons you could also re-color and relabel a different foe (say, something from the Shadow Shard) and use that.

I've done a few low level arcs in MA, and I've often had to create new minions, lts., and bosses to supplement foe groups that have gaps in their levels. For instance, Hellions go up to 20, but Skulls only go to 14. So to give a wider range of play in a Hellions / Skulls arc, I crafted some realistic looking Skulls to span the empty levels. Due to level gaps, I've had to do the same thing for Warriors and (I think) Family.

One tip for you, should you attempt this latter approach, is that there is currently a bug that causes foes of inappropriate level to appear in your mission's default enemy group. When I put my mixed Hellions into their own group (lvl 1-14 blueside ones, plus lvl 10-20 redside ones) to provide coverage from lvl 1-20, and used this new Hellions group as my default group, if I entered the mission with a level 15+ toon I'd see mobs at my level plus mobs from the 1-14 group. For a player at lvl20 those lower mobs would be grays, and nobody wants a mission filled with a lot of grays.

The solution? Backfill the map with patrols. For whatever reason the spawning algorithm used by the mission objectives (including patrols) differs from the algorithm used by the default spawns. You'll get foes spawning at the appropriate level and no grays if you follow this technique.

tl;dr: I vote for revamps. Adding new stuff is nice, but to me the revamps are ESSENTIAL.

I don't know why the devs are so fundamentally resistant to the idea of revamping content. We probably need to use some debuffs on them to drop their resistance.

Anyway, yes, revamping content IS creating new content, so revamping = making something new. It takes the same effort.

However, revamping a zone can also make new use of older assets - recycling! - which is an efficiency over making an all-new zone.

As I've suggested many times before, if Paragon Studios would just hire one or more people (like me!) for the purpose of continual revamping, the game could be continually renewing itself like a forest instead of making layer after layer of fossils.

What was once new eventually becomes old. The content from i1, i2, i3, i4, i5, i6 has petrified into fossil beds. Sure, there is perhaps a desire among some players to retain the original content. There are ways of doing that (Ouroboros, for example, or optional mission paths from the contact). But someone, or several someones, could definitely make a good full time job out of breathing new life into old zones and old stories, and that work (if done well, of course) would be widely appreciated.

One of the zones that could use new life - in addition to Boomtown and DA - is The Hollows. I know War Witch did a revamp of sorts a year or so ago, but to me that was not really the sort of revamp that was needed. There are plenty of zones in which players can run scanner content; in my opinion there was no need to make something like that for The Hollows. It was a waste of time. However, the field hospital and leveler were long overdue features.

What The Hollows really needs is a reworking of the basic arcs, including the Trial. We need to get more content related to the Outcasts, Trolls, Warriors, Family, Minions of Igneous, Coralax, and Circle activites in the zone, and we need to in some way see Igneous, the Magma Master, show up in relation to the Cavern of Transcendence and the Hollowing Event.

Another thing we could do is create additional options for the Task Forces / Strike Forces. While there are always new players in the game, many of us are veterans who have run the lower level Task Forces numerous times. For myself, I must have TF Commander on like two dozen toons. A refresh of the material is definitely in order!

What the dev team could do, for instance, is keep the old Posi TF, but add one, two, or three more. Teams visiting Posi for a TF could pick whichever one they want to do. Each TF would feature different foes, stories, and have merits determined by the usual rule. I know some players will always go for the max merits, but others may say "Ugh, pick one that doesn't have Vahz," or "pick one that doesn't have CoT," or "pick whichever one is shortest."

I also support a move to drop virtually all hunt and errand missions from the regular contacts, and to give story-based hunt missions to the zone Security Chiefs. (If this proves popular, contacts with an equivalent function could be added to redside.)

There are plenty of things that could be done to freshen old content. I think Paragon Studios needs to wake up, smell the organic fair trade coffee, and get with the recycling movement. Go green, Paragon!

If I want to make a Psi toon I feel like I have several options, including a VEAT, so it doesn't pinch me too badly that there's no Psi for Corrs. If we can get it, fine, but I don't really feel too constrained.

However, I really would like to see Poison get proliferated. The idea that all that work went into making a secondary for a single AT seems like a huge waste.

Poison could be proliferated to Corrs, Defs, and Trollers with very little effort, it seems to me.

My design goals tend to favor longer arcs. I like rich storytelling, and it's hard to craft a satisfying surprise, subplot, misdirection, or reversal in just a mission or two.

Oh, one more thing that is probably obvious ... the Sec Chief missions should be designed - where possible - in a way that lends itself to completion of Defeat badges.

So if you do all the Hellion hunts (in Atlas, Galaxy, and Perez), you should reasonably expect to come away from it with Hellspawned. If you complete the Skulls hunts (KR, Perez, Steel), you should expect to get Bonecrusher and possibly Kill Skulz as well.

You must defeat 500 Skulls for Kill Skulz, which sounds like a lot, but if you think of 3 arcs made up of 5 hunts + 1 door mission, and if you assume 10 Skulls per hunt, that's 3 x 5 x 10 = 150, plus three ambushes per arc (3 x 3 x 3), plus about 20 foes per door mission (totalling 60), that's 237 Skulls for a single person running all 3 hunt arcs. A team of 3 would spawn all the Skulls needed for this badge, if you do all 3 arcs, or a full team would do it in just one arc.

(Assuming my math is anywhere close to reality. lol)

A few more thoughts on this ...

The number of foes to defeat could increase based upon the number of players in the team (or virtual teammates, as set by the analyst).

The player (or team) will be auto-exemped to the proper level for the missions.

The Sec Chiefs could have some variety on their hunts, depending on the flexibility of the game's programming. Players could be sent to:

• defeat X foes in a district (regardless of foe group)
• defeat X of a foe group in a district (say, Trolls in The Fuse, or Council in Powderkeg)
• defeat X of a specific foe type in a district (like Skull Bone Daddies in The Boneyard)

I think it may even be possible to target foes doing a particular default animation, like "stop 10 Hellion purse snatchings in Downside," or "arrest X Troll Dyne peddlars in the Astral district." The goal here would be to defeat all of the members of that particular encounter. With this sort of objective the number of encounters to target would be the same regardless of team size.

Also, I would move hazard zone Sec Chiefs across the gate and into their proper zone. Players should encounter them right after they pass the gate guards, as in the case of the PvP zone contacts.

Oh, and I'd also make sure the Sec Chief gives out his cellphone number right away. No point in traveling to the furthest district of Boomtown and then having to return just to find out you need 10 more Trolls from the same place.

I like the idea of having more challenging content, and content with a wider variety of challenges. Also, I think it is best if the challenges are story and foe specific.

One way I'd like to see this appear in the game would be in alternate options for the lower task forces. You could do, for instance, Posi's Dam TF (the original), his Lost TF, or his Frostfire TF. Each one (A, B, or C) would give different merits, based on the usual formula, but all would give the same Positron's Ally badge.

The idea here is that players could select a TF that would be appropriately challenging for their team, the general challenge level indicated by the number of merits (assuming that challenging = longer play).

I like this.

My idea for some years has been to remove all the superfluous hunt missions from contacts on blueside and to instead give hunt missions to the Security Chiefs. The Sec Chiefs would be open contacts who can send you to hunt for specific foe types in specific districts of their zone. After say 3 hunts on a foe there should be a zone ambush on the player. Following the 5th hunt, there should be a door mission that is something like a scanner mission, featuring a named boss of that same group, and completion of the mission gives an arc bonus.

The rationale behind this is that many players simply don't want to do hunts. They'd rather do door missions with preferably no hunts and no errands. So remove the onerous and unfun hunts from the regular contacts.

Other players have toons that are fully capable of street sweeping, and it may also fit their character's theme. So give them the ability to street sweep with the additions of a little bit of story, a mission bonus, and an arc bonus, through the use of the zone Security Chiefs.

I do AE at lower levels, on blueside, simply for the new content and tickets. Aside from the temp travel powers you get from the safeguards, there's nothing very appealing about lower level play on blueside, and the rewards at low levels normally aren't helpful. May as well get tickets, either to buy a needed salvage at higher level or to buy a salvage to sell on the market for a bucket of quick inf.

On redside, once I hit level 5 I start doing missions in PO with a goal of trying to get the badge / temp power from each of the main contacts: Heck, Vendetti, Bocor, and Radio. A few of my toons have managed to do Lunata as well before leveling out.

However, how many times can you bear running the same content on redside? Eventually you must turn to AE just for relief from the monotony.

I'm mostly /signed to the sentiment in this thread.

I'd like to see WH become a bit more effective, damage-wise, especially if it is going to be the only AoE in the set.

I question the value of the EM Stun power. I took it on my tank to see if I could figure out how to get the intended value out of it, but ... it's really just a waste of a power, so far as I can tell.

I like the way EM has damage that is non-lethal. I like the side effect of stun, which is generally more valuable for mitigation than slow, sleep, or fear effects. I think the stun effect and energy damage help make the set unique. But it does seem like it is at a disadvantage to other tanker sets.

I could go for a solution for the set that involves changing Stun, a basically superfluous power.

I could go for faster power animations.

I could also go for a solution that gives the set more control by giving unmodifiable PBAoE effects to ET and/or TF.

It has been mentioned that one reason for leaving ET and TF as single target is the desire to avoid changing IO sets from Melee Damage to PBAoE damage. What I've not seen mentioned much in this thread is the possibility that these powers can remain single target for damage, but also have unmodifiable PBAoE effects.

Unmodifiable PBAoE effects that could accompany ET / TF without breaking the theme, in my opinion, could include: -def, -res, knockdown, immob, sleep (shaking), -rec, -regen, -recharge, -end. Personally, I would prefer to avoid using stun again as the PBAoE, but I'll take it if I must, because at least it would make it easier to hold aggro. I would also avoid using a kb modifier, as - for one thing - that already exists as a modifier for a similar power in another set.

If the inclination is to give ET and/or TF a chance to stun in PBAoE, then I would recommend replacing the Stun power with something completely different, like maybe a short-range cone attack with knockdown using a modified Jacob's Ladder animation.

Just my two inf.

Maybe there should be a new veteran reward: Parade.

When you execute this command, admiring citizens swarm around you, praising you, throwing rose petals and confetti, and tootling on little party favor whistles and trumpets, and they follow you everywhere you go for the next 30 minutes.

(And now I foresee dozens of veterans gathering in Atlas Park to simultaneously unleash their parades, bringing the servers crashing down.)

I'd have to say my experience of redside was actually a bit disappointing because everything we were doing seemed identical to blueside behavior. We were almost always rescuing someone and defeating bad guys.

The main content that seemed authentic to me were the various theft missions and bank robberies.

I'm all for this, except I *would* allow the interrupt and range modifiers to take effect so long as the change in play is modest.

For example, if you slot a melee attack for +100% range, how much range have you really added?

And for the interrupt reduction, you could always arrange it so that the interrupt can only be reduced so far.

Probably the most intensely enjoyable moment I've had in the game was during a PvP session.

Having said that, let me go on to say that mostly I enjoy PvE, and that I think CoH has missed the boat on enjoyable PvP.

Confused? Let me explain.

I don't like arena matches very much. The basic concept and execution are fine; I like the interface and all the work that was put into it. But generally what happens, in my limited experience, is that in any match one or another configuration of toons has the edge based on a synergy of their powers. That's because there are generally only a few toons that are there, so it's pretty easy to figure out who the winning pairs are, and how they should coordinate. (Like, say, troller + scrapper: hold then shred.)

The ease of discovering a working strategy, or the speed with which you realize you have nothing available to counter the other team, makes the arena boring. You can try rotating team members, but usually it's just more of the same. (E.g., troller + blaster: hold then blast.)

PvP zones are, in my experience, even worse than arena matches. If you use the full latitude of what the zone offers, the basic winning strategy is to gang up on a toon. So if arena play tends to be predictable and boring because of its underpinnings, unrestricted PvP zone play tends to be like getting hit with - or escaping - an avalanche.

So what was the fun experience I had with PvP? It was a base raid.

What made the base raid fun for me was spontaneity and complexity. I was invited on the spur of the moment to a VG created specifically for the purpose of a base raid. I was told it would start in 30 min. with whoever they could gather. I didn't know anyone I was playing with, or anyone on the other team. I didn't know their powers. For the raid, we entered a base map, which was custom, so I'd never seen it before and didn't know how it was laid out. Bases, as well all know, are made up of relatively small rooms with reasonably wide but short hallways, so you can move through it okay, but there are lots of corners. It's fairly easy to enter and break line of sight. Also the hallways either merge around a central area or take you to a cul de sac. I thought it was fun having so many toons- there were quite a few - running around in a typical smallish base plot. It was mayhem!

In the base raid, in addition to the closely confined setting there are certain strategic areas or aspects. For example, there are the respawning points for the defeated players. Naturally, if you defeat a player you know they are going to respawn (or rez), and if you see several opponents go down at once, you know that possibly the next strong point of enemy activity is going to be in the respawning area.

Hallways, corners, and large rooms become tactically significant spaces. Turning a corner can protect you from one attack, but it can also end up exposing you to a new threat.

I think the devs should take the idea of base raids and make them a basis for PvP. I think they should keep the idea of players breaking base equipment for points, but I think after the raid the damage should "disappear," because ruining someone else's hard work is essentially griefing.

I also like the idea of having offensive and defensive devices in the base. In this way players can try to devise strategies for defending their bases.

I think that in this scenario, player kills/defeats can be counted for points for and against in that particular battle, but this shouldn't adjust the player's overall reputation. All healing, holds, accuracy debuffs, damage taken, and damage deflected or absorbed by shields should be counted for points. Exploitation would be avoided by taking the lowest point total of the two teams and using it as the basis of the primary mission reward to both teams (as xp, inf, prestige, merits, tickets, or whatever is appropriate). Individual numbers would be the basis of individual rewards, which would be smaller. If there are map objectives, then objectives accomplished would also count toward a team's reward.

In addition to player bases being used as staging grounds for team fighting, I'd like to see the safeguard / mayhem maps adapted for PvP team play, where each team has objectives that interfere with the other team. In this scenario, the villain team would always get the opportunity to pick 1 or more crimes to commit in the zone (bank, kidnap, jailbreak, etc.). They also pick entry and escape points from a list of possible entry/escape points. The heroes have to accomplish goals that block the villains. Some NPCs in the zone would aid the heroes, telling them what is going on and resisting the villains (e.g. bank guards), while some NPCs (zone villains) would impede them.

Again, both teams receive the main portion of their reward from the points earned by the lesser team, so this can't be exploited by having one team lay low, or having an overpowered team take on an underpowered team.

This sort of PvP scenario gives players more to work with, as player power strategies become secondary to the challenges of figuring out where the opposing team is going, how to feint or stealth to fool the other team, and how to escape or stop the escape.

I could see another fun scenario being a large tech or magic complex where the heroes and villains have to enter at starting points of their own choosing and fight their way past NPCs to achieve similar or the same goals. Again, the strategies come not so much from individual player powers (i.e., two teams facing each other on a featureless map), but rather from team facing the challenge of the terrain, the NPCs, and the location of the objectives and other strategic features.

To enable teams to form for these missions, I'd like to see the arena interface extended to where teams can submit their base as the arena map, or select a safeguard / mayhem map, etc.

I'd also like to see the arena interface extended for TF/SF recruitment and perhaps other forms of team play / recruitment. Players could put arena type interface units in their base or use the Arena or Information Booths placed in various city zones.

For the record, back in 2005 I thought we were going to get these features when CoV came out.

I guess when I'm getting Shivans or whatever I don't play a proper hero.

If there's a villain or two also getting meteor fragments, I talk to them and let them know I'm not going to bug them. Whoever gets to the meteor first goes first, whoever gets there second goes second. It's no problem.

It's hard to throw the internal switch and decide I'm supposed to grief the other side's players because now I'm in a PvP zone.

And if I was in the zone for a PvE purpose and a stalker ASed me 3x while I attempted to go about my business, I'd leave too. Obviously the stalker player could see I didn't want to PvP with them, but they didn't care. They were using the pretext of being in a PvP zone to harrass me.

If I understand the OP correctly, he's asking for more lvl50 content, especially TFs.

It seems to me the devs have already been working to deliver this type of content lately, what with the i15 TF/SFs, the ITF, LGTF, STF, and LRSF. These are all the most recent TF/SFs, right? And they're all playable at level 50.

Furthermore, I think it's the current plan to add lvl50 content AND revamp the shard TFs. Not sure when this will happen.

So I think what you're asking for is coming along, though maybe not as quickly as you would like.